Who else is having AdBlue issues?

dzcad90 said:

This would be a huge development - If anyone can get some additional information on this report, that would be extremely helpful for the community. (TSB, Another dealer corroborating, etc..)
Illinois dealerships are closed on Sunday, so I don't have any way to get any more info on this anytime soon.

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Overall its huge because its yet another manufacturer having adblue freezing issues. However I don't recall any issues last winter. I'd say the abnormal cold temps are more of the issue. I also wonder though if VW will respond like the other manufacturers have to the issue. I hope they do, but never the less am glad im down south.

Given that I don't think we actually have any reports of frozen AdBlue on here, I'm curious. zulu's problem was a pump and nebelwerfer hasn't completed diagnosis yet.

mrp: Is your vehicle in the dealership for an AdBlue problem or was this just something you overheard in passing?

How have the other manufacturers handled these issues? I would assume that this issue also effects diesel trucks using def.

On the Ram/Cummins, the system is heated, and when not driven, the DEF is allowed to freeze. The heaters are large enough to thaw it on demand, so no battery drain issues.

- Tim

Frozen AdBlue

VeeDubTDI said:

Given that I don't think we actually have any reports of frozen AdBlue on here, I'm curious. zulu's problem was a pump and nebelwerfer hasn't completed diagnosis yet.
mrp: Is your vehicle in the dealership for an AdBlue problem or was this just something you overheard in passing?

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It seems that I am not the only one with this problem. I re-read the bill from the dealer and I saw that it is wrtitten that the urea was frozen, nothing about a pump. Either I misunderstood what the service manager explained or he didn't tell me everything but what is obvious is that the problem is known by VW because the replacement part was block by them. The warning appears on december 31st but even if the car was sleeping in a garage heated at 50F for 2 days, it diddn't disapeared, it disapeared only after driving on the highway for about 50 Km after visiting the dealer.
Tomorrow I will contact the dealer from which I bought the car and should be able to learn more from them.
I will keep you inform of everything I found which can help you.
Regards.

Frozen AdBlue

I forgot to mention that the CEL code was P204F Reductant system performance

I'm going to get the car in sometime this week, not too sure when though. Leave is done and I'm back to work and I have a lot on my plate. Tanks to get sorted out, course to get ready, ranges to plan. The list goes on and on.

It probably won't be until the weekend when I have a bit of time.

Regards

VeeDubTDI said:

Given that I don't think we actually have any reports of frozen AdBlue on here, I'm curious. zulu's problem was a pump and nebelwerfer hasn't completed diagnosis yet.

mrp: Is your vehicle in the dealership for an AdBlue problem or was this just something you overheard in passing?

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my vehicle was in dealership to get the code read and cleared so the yellow check engine light would go off....diagnosis was that adblue tank had been frozen but had thawed out enough, after driving for two hours, to turn warning message off....car had been sitting outside at minus 15F for 24 hours. VW HQ had just called in to respond to another Passat that was towed into dealership to thaw out.....response was to give out rental cars until a fix was made. the service manager was surprised I turned down the rental and made me sign off on it....I probably should have taken the rental....but now I can try out that free 2yr/24K Road Service!

Had a similar issue with my 2012 Passat. Had the car towed, under warranty, to the dealer. The code revealed the problem originated with the adblue system. It was determined the adblue heater malfunctioned causing the fluid to freeze. As replacement parts were not available in North America, VW had to bring them in from Europe.

zulu125 said:

Hello everybody,
I am a new tdi Passat 2014 owner with 1100 Km and yesterday the Adblue and CEL light came on after driving 300km at a temperature of minus 20 Celcius (200 MILES at 0 F).
Since it is the holidays period I have to wait until friday to go to the dealer.
The warning says chat the car wont start in 350 km if I don't refuel the Adblue tank.
What happened to those who reported a similar problem before, was VW able to resolve this issue and if so what did they do, did they find the real cause and was it a final solution?
Happy new year to the tdi forum friends.

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The same thing happened to me.
I think the Adblue was frozen and the heater couldn't keep up with the low temperature.
The next day everything was fine and has been since.
Only problem is I had to reset the check engine light with an OBD reader.
Good luck.
John G.

What was the check engine light for?

It would be awesome if people would make note of what the codes are BEFORE resetting them... might help someone diagnose a problem in the future.

The code was P204F. The dealer read it and wrote it on my work order.

VeeDubTDI said:

What was the check engine light for?

.

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To be honest, I didn't bother reading the code.
I just cleared it.
John G.

I'm following this thread closely. Hoping a clear cut solution will show up for someone. All those affected please keep this thread updated, Thanks!

kydsid said:

Overall its huge because its yet another manufacturer having adblue freezing issues. However I don't recall any issues last winter. I'd say the abnormal cold temps are more of the issue. I also wonder though if VW will respond like the other manufacturers have to the issue. I hope they do, but never the less am glad im down south.

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kjclow said:

How have the other manufacturers handled these issues? I would assume that this issue also effects diesel trucks using def.

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Perhaps I wasn't being clear... Which other manufacturers are having issues with DEF and what are they doing about it?

TypeRod said:

I'm following this thread closely. Hoping a clear cut solution will show up for someone. All those affected please keep this thread updated, Thanks!

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I following closely too since by the end of this year, all new VW diesels will use def.

kjclow said:

Perhaps I wasn't being clear... Which other manufacturers are having issues with DEF and what are they doing about it?

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I missed it the first time. Mercedes, Chevy and tractor manufacturers off the top of my head. Actually im pretty sure everyone probably has had some sort of hiccup with def. It is one of the reasons the truck guys hate it.

Specifics for you: First gen mercedes SUVs that were the first with def had problems 6 or more years ago. Iirc mercedes upgraded the heaters. Duramaxes had the issue on release of scr/def. There was a location based tsb to replace stock tanks with insulated tanks. Last year that tsb became standard for gm models. Ford followed the same afaik. They also added insulated lines, updated sensors and programing over the previous gen. Buy a tractor these days and you'll get a def lesson before purchase especially about freeze cycling and expansion that could crack the tank.

I had thought last year when we didn't have any issues vw had followed along with everyone else's issues. I never did keep up with first gen tourags to know if they suffered like everyone else. I'm hopefull that the abnormal temperatures simply defeated even the def v2.0 we should have. I will say this though if I still lived in Alaska and had bought a Passat and seen its exposed def tank I would have wrapped it in insulation just like I did with my first gen duramax.

Thanks for the follow up.

I wonder if when the adblue freezes if it somehow does damage to the heating element in the tank. My thinking is if something is frozen within a block of ice, and that block of ice is dropped its quite possible that the object frozen in ice could break as well, depending on a few factors, like rigidity and material it is made of. So maybe the heating element is within the frozen adblue (just speculating, since I don't know how the element runs within the tank, what its made of, or insulated in) and maybe folks are driving down the road while the adblue is still frozen and hit a bump in the road or maybe the tank is force to flex when the vehicle is on an uneven surface.

other thread

here is another Thread on same issue : My 1200 mile road trip with Adblue issues

Yesterday I had the 200 mile warning and then it went away about 8 minutes later. It was around 10f below. Funny thing is it worked fine at 23f below. It has not reappeared.

Last winter I had the warning come on when it was about 15 below, but they attributed that to the DeF tank not being fully serviced from delivery, at least that's what they said....

The good news is we are finally back above zero f today here in Mn so these issues should be gone until the next big cold snap.

Maybe they need to insulate the tanks to retain more heat.

From Minnesnowta too. Although it seems we've traded snow for just cold this year... I have been keeping an eye on mine, but no issue, like you HerkGuy, even down into the -26 range and colder. Strange since a good friend with the same car did have an issue resulting in a full tank swap over the Holidays. So, I am wondering if there may be a correlation between AdBlue level in the tank, and the issue with it freezing. My tank is still at 90% full., my buddies was at about 40%... Dunno, but I am also curious to see how VWoA handles this. The service manager, local to me, said with the recent "Arctic Cyclone" the issue is popping up all over northern tier states in the US, and based on this thread the issue seems as, or even more, common in Canada... So far so good, but I am curious how VW will handle it...

Well all things being equal more of any liquid will take longer to freeze. As a former cold weather inhabitant this is why I filled the fuel tank when it got to 1/2, refilled washer fluid every week, and kept my def tank above 75% but below full.

Yeah, I guess the correlation is obvious, I obviously need to proof my posts... . But what I'm really wondering how heater placement & output could impact it. Because whether it's two gallons or 5, at those temps it's going to be frozen after a few hours. My car sat outside as temps dipped into the -30f territory overnight, which would suggest, based on the composition of AdBlue, that the tank contents should be "frozen solid".

I haven't found the tank/system diagram to see where and what type of heater(s) are being used.

Like you I tend to keep the same fluids full for the same reason. This issue is curious to me though, because it seems so intermittent... As a self proclaimed gearhead, and degreed engineer, I would like to understand it from a 5-why, Root Cause standpoint.

There are a couple of factors to think about. How long does the car sit in one spot and does sun light hit the rear of the car? I would think that less volume would freezes quicker.

ABS said:

Yeah, I guess the correlation is obvious, I obviously need to proof my posts... . But what I'm really wondering how heater placement & output could impact it. Because whether it's two gallons or 5, at those temps it's going to be frozen after a few hours. My car sat outside as temps dipped into the -30f territory overnight, which would suggest, based on the composition of AdBlue, that the tank contents should be "frozen solid".

I haven't found the tank/system diagram to see where and what type of heater(s) are being used.

Like you I tend to keep the same fluids full for the same reason. This issue is curious to me though, because it seems so intermittent... As a self proclaimed gearhead, and degreed engineer, I would like to understand it from a 5-why, Root Cause standpoint.

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If the heater were some type of coil running from top to bottom of the tank, then you might get better heating and circulation in the fuller tank. More fluid in contact with more of the heat source.

MonsterTDI09 said:

There are a couple of factors to think about. How long does the car sit in one spot and does sun light hit the rear of the car? I would think that less volume would freezes quicker.

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It should thaw quicker too, which would not appear to have been a factor here. I wonder if in these long cold snaps, depending on heater placement, if it does heat, and then a cavity forms around the heater, rendering it ineffective after the melted fluid is used. Unlikely, but not impossible. Not even sure if the heat source is electric or ?? - Cummins/Ram uses hot engine coolant, for instance . . .

- Tim

I have just over 16k miles on my 2013 Passat. I added one single bottle (half gallon) last Summer before taking a long road trip just to make sure I made it through that road trip. I expected to see the adblue warning light at some point this Fall, but it has not turned on.

This seems to be a lot of miles on the original dealer fill and one extra bottle. Is this lower than normal adblue usage?

Some have posted that the adblue could last to 20k miles on the original fill.

Thanks. Good to know. I do have 4 bottles ready to add when the warning light shows up.