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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old March 26th, 2018, 08:02   #1
oceanag
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Default Low RPM Vibration

Have a 2011 Golf TDI with an 02Q 6 speed manual transmission. I have noticed a vibration, tied to engine RPMs between idle and up to 2300. Does not get better or worse whether the clutch is depressed or not. I don't feel anything in the shifter, but I wouldn't expect too sense it is cable shifted.
Any thoughts? I don't have a clutch slipping but was thinking maybe DMF.
Car has 198k miles on her with all the factory running gear. Took it to the local dealer to see if they had a better idea and was handed an estimate for the clutch and DMF as well as a transmission with the excuse of since we really can't see anything we would need to pull the transmission first, then see if it is on the flywheel side or not.
Seems like a lot of cabbage to spend without them knowing really what they are looking for. I'm not above pulling the transmission myself, do that plenty on previous vehicles.
Thought I would pick you guys brains on maybe something I missed.
If it is the DMF, should I consider doing the SMF conversion?
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Old March 26th, 2018, 19:56   #2
PRY4SNO
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I'd poke around the cheap/easy ones first; subframe mounts, engine/trans mounts, strut top mounts, control arm bushings... anything that might correspond to the frequency of that idle range.
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Old March 27th, 2018, 05:06   #3
oceanag
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I'll have to take a look at the different mounts. I didn't figure it would be a mount as I hadn't heard any clunking of, but I'll have a look see and see if there is any play or grease coming out of them. I know I have a throw out bearing that is making noise, little pressure on the clutch and she quiets up. But the vibration is new. I'll have a look further into the mounts and see if anything is worn out.
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Old March 27th, 2018, 06:09   #4
IndigoBlueWagon
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Surprisingly, I suspect your dealer is correct, at least about the DMF and clutch. 200K miles is a good service life for a DMF. And since it's attached to the flywheel it would vibrate whether the clutch is in or out. Odds are the transmission is fine.
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Old March 28th, 2018, 06:24   #5
oceanag
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Bit of an update. I was able to test the engine/transmission mounts some yesterday. I tried it 2 ways, one with the car in gear no parking brake I rocked the body of the car and watched the engine lift both forward and backwards. second method was pushing on the engine with either the exhaust manifold or intake (front to back), engine moves back and forth between 1-1.5 inches.

What I'm wondering is if I have a couple of minor issues that have not gotten bad enough to notice alone, but have combined enough to be noticable now. Meaning I may have had weak mounts for awhile, but may have a DMF on the way out that is made more evident due to the weak mounts.

I can see the top of the engine vibrating back and forth enough that you can't read the TDI badge on the cover. So I think I may have a rotating issue (DMF) and possibly a mounting issue (weak or suspect mounts). I know that when I shook the engine back an forth, the transmission mount side moved more and more easily than the engine side.

Just a few things to think about. Going to price parts today to see what the damage is.
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Old April 2nd, 2018, 13:35   #6
oceanag
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Thought a would give you guys and update. Ordered parts, just waiting for the mounts to come in. I went ahead and ordered OEM style mounts, these have lasted 197k miles so another set should be alright. Once they come in I'll swap them out and we will go from there.
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Old April 9th, 2018, 06:17   #7
oceanag
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Well, swapped all three mounts, the engine mount (which was still in fairly good shape), the Transmission mount (completely worn out), and the lower dog bone (not bad shape). I didn't see any improvement. So I still have quite a bit of vibration at idle, which improves as the engine revs to 2200 RPMs. It is not effected by the clutch pedal depressed or not.

Is there anyway I can add a video to this? I took some video with my phone that I could share to let you guys see what I'm seeing.

I think pulling the transmission is in my future to confirm whether this is a DMF failure or not. When I do pull the transmission, are there any other items out side the (clutch, slave, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, pressure plate, flywheel) that I should take a look at or replace? Since I'll have everything open then.

I appreciate the help guys, tracking down vibrations on cars with miles is an art and a science!

Thanks,
Steven
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Old April 15th, 2018, 17:40   #8
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If you have low-power shudder only, it is the flywheel. If you have all-power shudder, especially at idle, it is your mounts. As the engine speeds up, centrifugal force pushes the flywheel plates into alignment, causing the chatter to disappear. (I mean, you already troubleshot this, but that is how you can tell in the future.)

I would inspect all those parts for condition. You'll probably want or need a new clutch and throwout at the least.

As for a replacement flywheel, you should consider getting an aftermarket single-mass flywheel from someone like Southbend. Engine noise will increase dramatically at idle, giving it a noticeably diesel chattering noise, but the flywheel will last forever. 200k miles seems to be about the life of an OEM clutch and flywheel: my clutch gave out at 130k. I would try to drive a car that has one installed already, because it is a noticeable difference from stock in terms of shift effort and action.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 18:01   #9
IndigoBlueWagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymander View Post
Engine noise will increase dramatically at idle, giving it a noticeably diesel chattering noise, I would try to drive a car that has one installed already, because it is a noticeable difference from stock in terms of shift effort and action.
Neither of these statements are correct. First, the rattle at idle that some SMF kits have is from the output shaft of the transmission. It's caused by the clutch disc not having any damping. All SBC clutches are now modified from clutch discs that have a floating hub, so there's no longer any noticeable rattle.

Second, pedal effort on a Stage 2 Daily SBC clutch is close enough to a stock SMF kit that I cannot tell the difference. And generally the pedal effort on a SMF kit is less than a DMF kit.
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2002 Jetta wagon, 362K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 285K; '99.5 Golf, 257K; 2011 335d, 56K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 8K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI

Last edited by IndigoBlueWagon; April 15th, 2018 at 18:03.
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