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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old June 27th, 2018, 22:04   #1
Jukums
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Lightbulb Big nozzles for VP engines

I wanted to know other people experience with big nozzles for VP engine and max power, what is get out from them and with what size pump.
As there isn't good product in market for like 0,350+mm size nozzles, wanted to know, what size can fully supply 350+ hp on engine.
And maybe someone know some good opening pressure combo to reduce white smoke for big nozzles, like 0,370mm ?
I know, that in market there isn't good quality nozzles what is bigger then 0,300mm, the last good quality nozzle size, what I know is 0,300(tested for over 40k km).
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Old June 27th, 2018, 22:39   #2
Yucca
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We are currently using 0.320 nozzle size with 270bar 1.stage pressure. Pump is stock 11mm pump. Power output is +350bhp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR6ZNNfggW4
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Old June 27th, 2018, 23:56   #3
Jukums
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Intresting why so big 1. Stage pop pressure. What about 2. Pressure ?
My friend uses 0.370mm Nozzles, power output is 357hp
Yesterday I put 0.300mm nozzles on car and after 0.370mm By feelings seems, that car is making less power(remaped), but with 0.300 I can get smoke in full rpm band, till 7k rpm, but fuel in software is set to max, but smoke output isnt so big as 0.370mm Nozzles.
Also using 11mm fuel pump. 12mm fuel pump donít like rpm.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old June 28th, 2018, 07:56   #4
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In for an answer. Got some DSS-r .360s that are a bit rough, would like something nicer before I bother figuring out a properly calibrated pump voltage map.
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Old June 28th, 2018, 11:50   #5
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I have seen over 380bhp dyno sheet with 0.320 but never with 0.360 or with bigger nozzle size. This is with rotary pump, inline pump is another story...
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Old June 28th, 2018, 20:49   #6
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maybe pump element filling becomes an issue?
with less power from the larger nozzles from the smaller ones efficiently using the limited fuel available from the pump vs raw flow volume

Makes me wonder about running significantly higher case pressures.
Rework the shaft seal out front with proper hydraulic packing instead of having inlet pressure against the back side of a lip seal and set up the power steering pump as a higher pressure fuel pump to deliver 200psi of inlet pressure, case pressure regulator and transfer pump should bump that up to something like 5-600 psi in the pump.

Last edited by [486]; June 28th, 2018 at 20:55.
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Old June 28th, 2018, 22:11   #7
Jukums
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In my expierence big size nozzles make not nice and clean black smoke, but it is more like black/grey and very much, so atomizatoion is bad and engine doesn't burn all fuel, also smoke smells like not burned fuel, so maybe there isn't enough fuel pressure in rails at WOT.
But at the moment only with 0,370mm we have measured good results, no one wasn't on dyno with smaller nozzles, but ported head etc.
Also I think, that how good fuel burns, depends on nozzle quality, and good quality nozzles, bigger then 0,300mm I doesn't seen yet.
But now I am tyring to manage that problem, to get something bigger than 0,300 in good quality.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 00:18   #8
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I still have a set of HFlo-X 0.341 injectors in my garage.
I ran them briefly with 10mm pump but it took ages to start and white smoke on start up was then embarrassing.

So put my R520's back in. Now I have 11mm pump and am nowhere near maxing out the pump voltage map with R520's, so I presume 0.341's would be ridiculous with me running just 1.8bar boost for about 200crank hp.

But I've heard people say they've set these big nozzles up and their car starts fine?
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Old June 29th, 2018, 00:19   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukums View Post
In my expierence big size nozzles make not nice and clean black smoke, but it is more like black/grey and very much, so atomizatoion is bad and engine doesn't burn all fuel, also smoke smells like not burned fuel, so maybe there isn't enough fuel pressure in rails at WOT.
But at the moment only with 0,370mm we have measured good results, no one wasn't on dyno with smaller nozzles, but ported head etc.
Also I think, that how good fuel burns, depends on nozzle quality, and good quality nozzles, bigger then 0,300mm I doesn't seen yet.
But now I am tyring to manage that problem, to get something bigger than 0,300 in good quality.
How do you measure Nozzle quality? Or is just "made in china, not good" -level?

We just change injectors in dyno and charts will tell that what nozzle works and what does not.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 00:34   #10
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All nozzles, what I use, are made in China, but diferent producers.
0.370 nozzles isn't possible even calibrate them, if they wasn't in car for like ~500km, after that there is possible to calibrate them on injectors, but still, in different temp they may not working, as hot injectors or cold. On car they smoke badly with white smoke at idle, cold start is fine, only very much white smoke and engine is shooting before gets working temp.
I dont even know anything, what is bigger than 0,260(Bosio Race) what isn't made in china.

At the moment we haven't dyno where we could take tests for day, because one of dyno(Superflow) seems to not showing correct power, on other dyno(Bosch) seems to be correct power, but people dont like black smoke what me make at his dyno.
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Old June 30th, 2018, 04:19   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhodgkiss View Post
I still have a set of HFlo-X 0.341 injectors in my garage.
I ran them briefly with 10mm pump but it took ages to start and white smoke on start up was then embarrassing.

So put my R520's back in. Now I have 11mm pump and am nowhere near maxing out the pump voltage map with R520's, so I presume 0.341's would be ridiculous with me running just 1.8bar boost for about 200crank hp.

But I've heard people say they've set these big nozzles up and their car starts fine?



What pop pressures have you had them setup with?


To get good atomization and burn on cold start on that size I think you will need to go higher than standard by a long way.



Plus with poor atomization it might be some more advance on the start of injection timing during start would help clean it up a bit.
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Old June 30th, 2018, 04:34   #12
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Many thanks, id have to dig out what they were set to.
What would you recommend on 1st/2nd stage pop pressures please reliably for R520 and 0.341s please?
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Last edited by bhodgkiss; June 30th, 2018 at 04:41.
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Old June 30th, 2018, 07:22   #13
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Use this as a starting point :

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...510#post734510
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Old July 1st, 2018, 01:29   #14
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Intresting write up TDIMeister, will try to check this, if it gets some gain on 0.300mm nozzles.
At the moment I get this amount of smoke. Car running 3bar boost, 7k rpm, SOI is somewhere like 23-24BDTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-klJsPQ29fA
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Audi 80 B4 1.9TDI Power figures: unknown
0-402 best time 13.3sec trap speed 179km/h
Engine: Building at the moment.
http://www.tdr.lv/audi-80-b4-jukums/
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 00:23   #15
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Turbo model? EMP level?

It looks like you need much more air!

I did get 388bhp with 2.7bar boost and 20-22btdc.
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