3 issues to sort out

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
03 Jetta 5 speed. New tires all the way around. 250K miles

1) Occasionally I can feel a tick coming from the suspension in my left foot. It can be felt when the car is making a sweeping right turn, notably on the highway. It may also be brought on by hitting little bumps in the road surface. I also noticed, after not driving the car for a week, that there was a noticible grinding noise when getting into that sweeping right turn position. I don't notice it all the time. Possible left front wheel bearing?

2) The coolant temp light beeps then blinks on first startup in the morning. There is a code, relating to temp not getting into range quickly enough, I forget the actual code.

3) Puff of smoke on startup after sitting for some time. It's grey, and the engine doesn't lose oil.

I'll get the car up on a jack this weekend to check for bearing play. Just wondering if symptom 1 rings a bell for anyone here.
For 2) above, changing the coolant temp sensor again seems like a logical first place to start.
Any chance 2) and 3) are related?
3) seems like it could be incomplete burning up of fuel dribbled into the cylinder(s) while sitting.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

John
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
#1 could be EITHER bearing, but the most-likely is driver-side. It can also be the strut bearings and/or rubber donut mounts or, for that matter, a CV, probably but not necessarly on that side.

#2 is PROBABLY the probes in the coolant tank, assuming the coolant is in between the low and high limits when the engine is cold and the coolant is correctly balanced (correct mix of coolant and distilled water, etc), especially if it only happens when the engine is cold. Cooler things have less chemical activity (ion exchange) and the probe works on resistance, so.... yeah. If the level is below the lower limit then obviously it really is low, but if not the easiest fix is to replace the ball (you can try cleaning the probes but that's a temporary fix -- the problem will come back.) While you're at it remove the seal from the plug; if you get a leak at the connector on the ball this will prevent coolant from being forced into the wiring harness (which is a SERIOUS problem if it happens.)

3. How big a puff? A modest puff of smoke on a cold start isn't really abnormal, especially in cooler weather. Check injector balance in VCDS; if you have one hole not firing correctly at lower power output (poor pattern, etc) it should show up there.
 

Powder Hound

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 25, 1999
Location
Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
TDI
'00 Golf 4dr White 5sp, '02 Jettachero 5sp, Wife's '03 NB Platinum Gray auto(!)
#3 is probably valve stem seals. They get a little worn, and oil seeps past them when the car sits. The longer it sits, the bigger the puff. My 4-dr was doing this and I waited several months trying to figure out if it was a turbocharger impeller seal going out, or the oil control rings. But I finally decided it was the valve stem seals because they're a lot cheaper and easier to replace than the other stuff, and it worked great.

This is something you can fix when it is convenient. No worries.

Cheers,

PH
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
1) Try the basic CV joint test, drive the car in tight circles both directions. Inspect boots.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
#2 - Really need a code to properly troubleshoot.
#3 - Can also be pooled fuel (leaky injectors). Hard to say without more investigation.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
The puff of smoke could be normal, but it wasn’t always there. Only noticed it recently, so I’m assuming something has changed. It’s only a puff on initial start up, then it clears up. Leaves a noticeable mini cloud if there’s no breeze to clear it out.

I’ve changed out the coolant tank once, fairly recently. I’ll check it visually.

Thanks,

John


#1 could be EITHER bearing, but the most-likely is driver-side. It can also be the strut bearings and/or rubber donut mounts or, for that matter, a CV, probably but not necessarly on that side.

#2 is PROBABLY the probes in the coolant tank, assuming the coolant is in between the low and high limits when the engine is cold and the coolant is correctly balanced (correct mix of coolant and distilled water, etc), especially if it only happens when the engine is cold. Cooler things have less chemical activity (ion exchange) and the probe works on resistance, so.... yeah. If the level is below the lower limit then obviously it really is low, but if not the easiest fix is to replace the ball (you can try cleaning the probes but that's a temporary fix -- the problem will come back.) While you're at it remove the seal from the plug; if you get a leak at the connector on the ball this will prevent coolant from being forced into the wiring harness (which is a SERIOUS problem if it happens.)

3. How big a puff? A modest puff of smoke on a cold start isn't really abnormal, especially in cooler weather. Check injector balance in VCDS; if you have one hole not firing correctly at lower power output (poor pattern, etc) it should show up there.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I think grey indicates a bit of oil burning. Put a piece of paper or something to catch the smoke, if it's oil small spots will show.
If the injectors have high miles a diesel purge could help if it's excess fuel.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I've had the coolant beep & blink occasionally in bitter cold days. Low teens.
Ran the car a minute, restarted & OK
Seems adding a bit of coolant even though it was in the correct range warded it off for a while.

Have the smoke also lately but bluish tint.
Debating on getting the injectors rebuilt when warmer weather comes.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
This is temperate CA, no real cold weather here. I checked today, coolant level was below the low line, so topped it up. Also the oil was down about .5 qt. Tried the rag test on the exhaust, no spots on startup.
Also jacked it up to do the 6 and 12 test to check the bearing on the front wheel, it was solid, no play.

Don’t remember it using coolant in the past, so I’ll have to keep an eye on that. Same with the oil.

More later.

John
I've had the coolant beep & blink occasionally in bitter cold days. Low teens.
Ran the car a minute, restarted & OK
Seems adding a bit of coolant even though it was in the correct range warded it off for a while.

Have the smoke also lately but bluish tint.
Debating on getting the injectors rebuilt when warmer weather comes.
 

BamaB4S

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
AL
TDI
1996 Passat
For item #1 are the sway bar links and bushings original? Rather than a "tick" they usually make a "clunk" as they begin to fail but it's something to check/rule out.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Find the coolant leak. If it's at the water pump you want to take care of that (which means timing belt job.)

It can also be at the CTS; the O-ring fails eventually (usually at about 5 years in my experience thus far); it's hard to see for obvious reasons with where it is, but you'll find coolant on the back of the engine and on the belly pan if it's leaking there.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
Another chance to use my new borescope. Verified that there’s no leak at the CTS.
With the coolant topped up, I still get the annoying beeping with flashing thermometer on the dash shortly after starting. There could be a leak, but I’m thinking the CTS is bad.
As far as the suspension noise, the 6 and 12 test was negative. I get a definite gnrrrrr with the wheel turned to the right just enough to engage the steering rack. It goes away when the wheel turns back to the neutral/left position.

As time permits.......

Find the coolant leak. If it's at the water pump you want to take care of that (which means timing belt job.)

It can also be at the CTS; the O-ring fails eventually (usually at about 5 years in my experience thus far); it's hard to see for obvious reasons with where it is, but you'll find coolant on the back of the engine and on the belly pan if it's leaking there.
 

fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
Another chance to use my new borescope. Verified that there’s no leak at the CTS.
With the coolant topped up, I still get the annoying beeping with flashing thermometer on the dash shortly after starting. There could be a leak, but I’m thinking the CTS is bad.
As far as the suspension noise, the 6 and 12 test was negative. I get a definite gnrrrrr with the wheel turned to the right just enough to engage the steering rack. It goes away when the wheel turns back to the neutral/left position.
As time permits.......
This sure acts like a bad wheel bearing.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Although it's a bit dangerous, sometimes you have to run the drivetrain to discern where the noise is coming from. Put the car up on jack stands and run it in gear (5th if a manual). I wasn't sure about a bad wheel bearing until I did this: it was then VERY obvious.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
Update on these issues.
The thermometer light on the dash stopped lighting up after I scraped the leads in the coolant bottle with a screwdriver. I did notice tiny amounts of black stuff in the bottle. I hope that's not indicative of oil migrating into the coolant. Will keep an eye on it.
To try to locate the noise in the front end I put it on jack stands and ran it. This was inconclusive. The engine is too loud or the noise is too quiet. I made another observation about this noise while driving. I hear it more pronounced in a sweeping right turn as mentioned earlier, but I also notice it if I'm going straight and hit a dip in the road. This isn't an abrupt bump, but more like a dip that causes the front ent to get loaded as the road surface comes back up on the far side of the dip.
Puff of smoke at startup is still there. I'd like to figure out what that is.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I scraped my coolant pins a few years ago.
Been OK so far.
Funny part, before I scraped them if I drove from the back to the front (1 minute running time) shut the car to run inside for something when I started it again no light.
Seems to happen in colder weather.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Yeah that's expected behavior -- it's not "colder weather" per-se, it's that electrochemical processes (e.g. conductivity, etc) are thermally-sensitive, so as soon as the coolant warms up it's more likely to read "present" as the resistance between the probes falls enough for it to be considered "valid."
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Yeah that's expected behavior -- it's not "colder weather" per-se, it's that electrochemical processes (e.g. conductivity, etc) are thermally-sensitive, so as soon as the coolant warms up it's more likely to read "present" as the resistance between the probes falls enough for it to be considered "valid."
I guess my coolant heaters are still working then. This is all of 2 to 3 minutes running time.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
Update #2:


The front end noise was a gorp'd wheel bearing on the passenger side. I replaced it yesterday. The test that really pinpointed the culprit was the 6 and 12 test, reinforced by the "hold the spring while turning the wheel" test. I would have sworn the issue was with the driver's side based on the vibration felt in my feet, coupled with the noise on turning right but not while turning left. The issue was that the inside race on the passenger side was chewed up pretty bad, which leads tothe symptom showing up while turning right.

2 down, the puff of smoke issue will be next. Along with replacing the clutch/DMF sitting on the shelf.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
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Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Nice work so far!
I'll be watching this, I have smoke at startup, but it's intermittent.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Funny, I have the same smoking and it's intermittent also.
Some days it's a real puffer.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
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Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Funny, I have the same smoking and it's intermittent also.
Some days it's a real puffer.
That's me, just occasionally it'll roll smoke up under the whole car, usually not.
First thought is dirty injector is dribbling extra fuel, second thought is it's just the nature of a TDI.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
It's been said here that

Blue Smoke = Oil Burning
Black Smoke = Excess Fuel in Exhaust
Grey Smoke = Moisture in Fuel
My smoke is grey. I've never used a moisture reducing agent. The smoke I get has spanned a fuel filter change. If coolant is getting into the combustion chambers, it's doing so at an imperceptible rate. ???
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Gray (darker white) smoke can also indicate one or more bad injectors that are pissing fuel. FIX THAT IMMEDIATELY as it can quickly lead to cylinder washdown and thus cylinder damage and, in some cases, can also damage pistons.
 

flashmayo

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz CA
TDI
'03 Jetta - Gator Tuned
What's the strategy for checking this? I've done a ghetto injector cleaning on my ford truck gasser that made a big difference. Not sure it's a valid procedure for a diesel injector.

That process was to use pressurized brake cleaner as the cleaning solution and just energize the leads on the injector to allow the cleaner to run through the system.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Check injector balance on VCDS; if it's out of spec then you have the injectors rebuilt and balanced by someone with the proper equipment.

A "ghetto" method would IMHO be VERY ill advised on a diesel....
 
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