DPF Cleaning

Diesel Particulate filters will accumulate ash, and if sensors fail and are not repaired, soot, can build up to the point where on-vehicle regeneration is not allowed by the ECU, due to danger of damage from excess heat.

(soot is normally captured in the DPF, and converted during passive and active regeneration almost totally to gasses that exit the tailpipe. ash is the small amount of material in that soot that cannot be converted.)

Want to start a discussion on options for cleaning DPFs, off car or on car.



Google reveals plenty of options for DPF cleaning services and products,

there are some products that move carbon around or claim to improve regeneration.

cleaning services use a combination of baking and air flow (in the reverse direction of exhaust flow), and in some cases ultrasonic bath (like my wife uses for her engagement ring, only bigger) to coax the ash and soot from the surface.

http://www.fsxinc.com/ sells cleaning equipment and will clean TDI DPFs.

http://www.dpfregeneration.com/ is another service, they charge $400 (as of May 2015) to clean a TDI DPF, with whatever is attached. (2009 design includes DOC and SCR cats, 2010 and later have the SCR cat in a separate part) shipping and removal and re-installation not included.


http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?2466-How-to-emergency-Regen-while-sitting

includes description of using oven cleaner and water to clean the dpf of on over-soot-level DPF, followed by VCDS reset, as an option to replacement or send-away cleaning.

Comments/discussion? Please share opinions, and especially if you have had your DPF cleaned and back in service.

if your dpf needs cleaned you may find help at your local truck shop we clean 10 or so per day

Never seen a TDI DPF that was clogged and needed "cleaning".

Seen plenty of 'em cracked and leaking internally, though. No cleaning is going to fix that.

So at this point, I'd say this discussion is useless.

FWIW, I have four CR TDI customers with over 200k miles. None of those have clogged up a DPF. We are doing one on a Sprinter this week (replacing, not cleaning), and it went 440k miles. The fleet management company that controls the pursestrings for this particular vehicle doesn't allow cleaning on lighter duty stuff, because it is labor intensive and doesn't last.

On the TDIs, given the work involved to R&R the DPF, and the relative low cost of them on the 4 cylinder cars (with the exception of the as-built 2009 models), and their tendency to NOT clog, and instead CRACK, I'd say cleaning them is probably not the wisest choice.

Now on big trucks, and farm equipment, etc. where the DPF is typically out in the open and easily removed, AND a replacement that costs THOUSANDS of dollars? Yeah, clean them all you want. That makes sense. But on little Volkswagen? Nah.

I think the cost to benefit ratio for cleaning vs replacing just isn't there. As stated above with all the expense involved and cracking, I want a guaranteed part in there. I don't want to pay $300-$500 or so for cleaning when a new part is $800-$900. Plus downtime is reduced when replacing with a new part right then rather than waiting for cleaning turnaround time.

I've had to clean some found on a non VW, the Ford 6.7 motor. Very time consuming, and mixed results. This most recent one is the second one for this particular truck, due to user error and failed egt sensors. The customer drove it for 1200 miles without a regenerative cycle, and thought nothing of it until it clogged and caused excessive heat to push coolant out of the reservoir. Put in new egt sensor and tested it for about 30 miles, but time will tell if it holds, or he buys another dpf. VW owners are lucky in this regard, as the Ford dpf is close to 2 grand. Not something to ignore and damage needlessly. So as oilhammer said, not worth it on small stuff, but cleaning makes sense for medium and heavy duty applications.

we use http://www.fsxinc.com/ to clean the dpf filters. one can not just look at one and see if it needs cleaning, its put on a vacuum and checked, cleaned, and recheck the vacuum pull to see if they are reuseable,

oilhammer said:

Never seen a TDI DPF that was clogged and needed "cleaning".

Seen plenty of 'em cracked and leaking internally, though. No cleaning is going to fix that.

So at this point, I'd say this discussion is useless.

FWIW, I have four CR TDI customers with over 200k miles. None of those have clogged up a DPF. We are doing one on a Sprinter this week (replacing, not cleaning), and it went 440k miles. The fleet management company that controls the pursestrings for this particular vehicle doesn't allow cleaning on lighter duty stuff, because it is labor intensive and doesn't last.

On the TDIs, given the work involved to R&R the DPF, and the relative low cost of them on the 4 cylinder cars (with the exception of the as-built 2009 models), and their tendency to NOT clog, and instead CRACK, I'd say cleaning them is probably not the wisest choice.

Now on big trucks, and farm equipment, etc. where the DPF is typically out in the open and easily removed, AND a replacement that costs THOUSANDS of dollars? Yeah, clean them all you want. That makes sense. But on little Volkswagen? Nah.

Click to expand...

Useless? any time we get the benefit of you sharing your insight and experience it is useful.

your response is focused on ash.

have any of your customers showed up with soot levels so high that the ECU will not let an active regen happen? (from ignoring a sensor failure, for example?)

if so, what do you think of the idea of using oven cleaner to disolve and remove the excess soot?

wrenchman30 said:

we use http://www.fsxinc.com/ to clean the dpf filters. one can not just look at one and see if it needs cleaning, its put on a vacuum and checked, cleaned, and recheck the vacuum pull to see if they are reuseable,

Click to expand...

How many of these have you sent off?

Do you send when clogged with soot, or for ash accumulation?

If for ash, there a time/mileage you use to decide when it is time, or is there a diagnostic you use? (DPF differential pressure over a certain value, for example?)

meerschm said:

have any of your customers showed up with soot levels so high that the ECU will not let an active regen happen?

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Yes. And a forced regen brings them back into normal operation. I've never once had a TDI DPF clogged to the point it needed to be replaced, even on all the cars that have had catastrophic turbo failure (and there have been quite a few of those).

Now cracked DPFs causing sooty tailpipes and clogged EGR filters? Yes, that is quite common.

DPF Cleaning - VW in Raleigh, NC

Guys-

Call your local VW dealership. The one here in Raleigh is (or was) testing out the DPF cleaning option. They had asked me several months ago about using my car to "test" the DPF cleaning process with a vendor they are using. I already removed the DPF so I missed out on that opportunity.

I believe now they are offering the DPF cleaning service. The last time I spoke with the service guys they are having good results. I don't recall what the price is. It's worth giving them a call. And if the VW dealership is offering this, any problems would have to be covered under/through VW.

oilhammer said:

Yes. And a forced regen brings them back into normal operation. I've never once had a TDI DPF clogged to the point it needed to be replaced, even on all the cars that have had catastrophic turbo failure (and there have been quite a few of those).
Now cracked DPFs causing sooty tailpipes and clogged EGR filters? Yes, that is quite common.

Click to expand...

How much soot on the tailpipe are we talking about? Will the EGR filter clogged in a short time if the DMF is cracked?

MonsterTDI09 said:

How much soot on the tailpipe are we talking about? Will the EGR filter clogged in a short time if the DMF is cracked?

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On the CBEA and CJAA engines, really ANY soot on the tailpipe is a sign of trouble, they generally will stay white glove clean.

EGR filter clogs up in about 20k miles or so if you just replace it and not the DPF. There is a TSB about this problem, but usually it manifests itself (to the driver) with the MIL on and a P0401 insufficient EGR flow DTC stored.

oilhammer said:

Yes. And a forced regen brings them back into normal operation. I've never once had a TDI DPF clogged to the point it needed to be replaced, even on all the cars that have had catastrophic turbo failure (and there have been quite a few of those).

Now cracked DPFs causing sooty tailpipes and clogged EGR filters? Yes, that is quite common.

Click to expand...

One more follow up, if I may,

reading from the SSP, looks like soot load of over 40grams needs a service regeneration, and over 45 calls for replacement.


are you saying you have seen them over 40, but not over 45, or that you just force a service regeneration and see success? A few threads around discuss forced reset of parameters when soot started a bit over 45, worrying over fire or other damage from ignoring the limit of 45grams.

how high of a soot level have you seen?

Thanks.

trucks that have the exhaust system plugged to where a forced regen is impossible or a turbo failure that has oiled the system get put into the fsx systems oven and is cooked for 8 hours, it slowly brings the temp up and bakes the soot and then slowly cools down to prevent dpf cracking, as to how many have we sent off the fsx system is a do all system, it cost in the neighborhood of 60k and it paid for itself in about 30 days, we were the first in the area to get one and all the other truck shops have since gotten one and the price is about half what it was in the beginning. (300.00) it takes 30 to 45 mins to clean one

Wrenchman, have you cleaned any VW CR TDI DPFs?

I have a 2011 CJAA Jetta in here for timing belt replacement #2, 240k miles. Original DPF still intact, still working fine, Its current ash volume is at 228 Ml.

That is good news, and consistent with the many reports on the DPF data collection thread, two over 200kmiles/200 ml and tadurkee's report of 300 ml before she lost her car in an accident.

It seems to me that the ash value is a calculated one, based on miles and other parameters available to the ECU. Perhaps the calculation is overly conservative, and can be noted and ignored as long as the rest of the car is intact, operating well, with stable mpg. Since some early info blamed most ash from engine oil which leaked past rings/valve seals/turbo..... if the engine is not using much oil, and specified low-ash oil is used, and changed per recommended intervals, the actual accumulated ash in the DPF may be much less than that reported.

Perhaps looking at relative values of DPF differential pressure, and looking at how calculated vs measured soot values would be helpful for judging health of DPF as these cars see more distance on the roads.

Sooner or later it would seem that whatever ash does accumulate would start to keep soot from getting to the DPF, but that could be a long way down the road.

it certainly looks like there is no need to change or clean healthy DPFs just for ash or miles anywhere under 200,000 or 250,000 miles.

meerschm said:

if so, what do you think of the idea of using oven cleaner to disolve and remove the excess soot?

Click to expand...

Been a while since I've read into this, but isn't there a catalyst section in there with the DPF filter section? Could it be possible the oven cleaner would damage the catalyst?

Could be a platinum/noble metal ingredient that wouldn't be touched by anything, or, maybe not... A clean but now problematic DPF would kinda suck.

Anyway, just thinking out loud....

That was my thought as well, and for my 09, the single assy has not only the DPF and oxidation cat, but the NOX cat as well. Even the DPF has platinum as a catalyst on the aluminum titanide structure. I am not even sure of what sodium hydroxide (oven cleaner) does to the ceramic structure of the DPF. It pretty much dissolves aluminum. the DPF also has aluminum oxide coatings, which do dissolve in sodium hydroxide solutions.


I also would worry about any sensors not removed.

MacBuckeye said:

Guys-

Call your local VW dealership. The one here in Raleigh is (or was) testing out the DPF cleaning option. They had asked me several months ago about using my car to "test" the DPF cleaning process with a vendor they are using. I already removed the DPF so I missed out on that opportunity.

I believe now they are offering the DPF cleaning service. The last time I spoke with the service guys they are having good results. I don't recall what the price is. It's worth giving them a call. And if the VW dealership is offering this, any problems would have to be covered under/through VW.

Click to expand...

I did call the local place, and the service guy gave me the hummina hummina song. said it is all automatic, under the control of the computer.

I thanked him for his time.

I would not be so certain of VW being responsible in any way for services performed at the dealer. they are in-de-pen-dant.

I called DuPage Auto Werks LTD, (630) 231-4444, and they said they could clean the DPF for about $500.00. That price included removing it from the vehicle.

A mechanic in western MA reports several cars which the ECU registers a DPF lamp, despite successful regenerations, around 240ml of ash.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=437595&page=2

lonewolf69 reported that his 2009 gave him a DPF lamp at 250,000 miles with 279 ml ash reported. He plans to have the mechanic send the DPF off for cleaning. (with the oxidation cat and NOX storage cat still attached)


on 5/26/15, I got on the phone with the owner of DPFregeneration, and took a few notes.

Her company has been cleaning DPFs since 2009. family business.

They clean the DPF assy, with the oxidation cat (DOC) and if attached (like the 2009 CR) with the SCR aka NOX cat.

They do not cut them apart, but may drill a hole which is welded shut and ground smooth after the cleaning.

she has seen quite a few from VW TDI cars at 150k miles plus, and one which had 370k miles! (this could have been a different DPF than the one on our 2.0 liter TDIs)

They recommend cleaning if MPG is decreased, or if regens happen on a more frequent basis (I suspect this could be verified by watching regens set off by measured soot, vs the regular calculated soot levels several folks watch with PF03 or VCDS.) It seems that at some point the DPF light will call for action, despite successful regenerations.

(I would be very interested if anyone has insight to which values are used to declare this DPF issue, and how we could monitor and anticipate the need to clean.)

The DPFregeneraiton.com cleaning process is a series of baking and cleaning, blowing the ash out in repeated cycles as required. They document pressure from flow tests at 1500 and 2000 CFM, and weights, both before and after cleaning.

Just in case a defect which clogged the filter is not fixed, and causes a re-clog, they will re-do the cleaning if needed for a year. (current price is $400, which is for the cleaning. Does not include shipping or local mechanic charges for the remove and replace.)

She does advise folks that if the tailpipe is sooty, the DPF is likely cracked, and will need to be replaced. they will still clean if asked, just to get someone by for a while.

Of note was that she said they were in talks with some folks who repair cracked DPFs, and perhaps in six months or so they may be able to offer repair services.

She also said they take care to collect and properly dispose of the ash removed, and used to sell it to a chemical company. The company now pays them for the ash. This tells me that the ash is likely full of stuff you do not want blowing around your back yard.

I have 2014 golf TDI that i'm trying to fix after collision, it was in a limp mode do to a damaged EGR valve. I replaced EGR valve and cleared code for it. Now calculated soot level is 45, measured 0 and ash is 0. The car only got 6000 ml. I understand it's to late to do a regen my self. Is replacing DPF filter is my only option? Thank for your help.

no if your dpf filter is face sooted the fx system we use has a oven that will bake the dpf and turn the soot to ash so it then can be cleaned, you should first try to find someone that can do a manual regen (parked), the baking process takes 8 hours

That calculated soot level will prevent the computer from running a regeneration. That 45 G is the limit over which the engineers deemed it too risky to run the regen.

it is possible to reset the value, and then run a regen.

personally, I would want to make sure the measured soot level moves a bit, and that Exhaust Pressure Sensor 1 G450, Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) Sensor 3 G495, and Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor G70 were working, as well as every other sensor.

run a VCDS auto-scan, and verify the only issue is the high soot. no other errors.

then, convinced that the calculated soot was overly pessimistic, use VCDS to reset the value, and then run a regen.

there are two programs that run the values, calculated and measured soot. the design assumes whichever gets there first should run the regen, and also assumes whichever is highest is correct for the soot level when looking at the high end.

If you want to be safe, pull it and have it cleaned.
if you want to take a chance, find someone to reset (or do it yourself).

My guess is that you might be ok with the reset, but there would be some chance that the soot value is close to that high value, and a regen would result in damage to the DPF. if it ends up cracked, you will have to replace, not just clean. there is some worry that a high soot value could cause other damage outside the DPF, like a fire, but that seems not too likely.

at the 45 grams, you are right on the edge.

Thank you meerschm. I found other post you explained how you did it. This weekend when i get home i will make sure all the sensors you mentioned working and will try to regen it my self. Jut received VCDS two days ago, didn't have much time to play.

I did not do this, but others have.

Last night i got a chance to work on my car, and i happy to say it's fixed. After reading the forum i followed the instructions and reset soot level to 0 and and regen started. When temperature reached 666 C' i knew i'm burning hell out of the DPF. After driving the car for 50 -60 ml DPF light is gone. Thanks to every one on this great forum.

has anyone tried this from liquid-moly?

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_5171.html?OpenDocument&land=GB&voilalang=e&voiladb=web.nsf

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_5169.html?OpenDocument&land=GB&voilalang=e&voiladb=web.nsf

No, but that company makes some good stuff.