www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > General Automotive

General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 12th, 2017, 12:16   #2926
aja8888
Veteran Member
 
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas..I work in Oil & Gas...
Fuel Economy: About as good as it gets!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerlord View Post

We took the opportunity to drive a number of EV's including the BMW i3, Chevy Volt, Ford Focus EV, Kia Soul EV, Nissan Leaf, Mercedes B250e, and of course - the Tesla Model S. As much as we would have LOVED to order the $110K Tesla, we bought what we felt was the next best thing - the Mercedes B250e. It's sort of a baby Tesla, with a Model S motor and Tesla battery pack, which gave us comfort that there is some tried-and-true technology in the car. I like that it came with a 36kWh battery, and that only 28kWh of it is being used. I'm hoping that buffer will pay off in the long term against the inevitable effects of battery degradation. The Mercedes also has a decent amount of cargo room which was important for us. The used one we bought had only 6,000 miles on it, and for only $23,000 (less than half of MSRP); it felt like we stole it.
Sounds like the Tesla has some formidable competition!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
........"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
Bring the 1971 Beetle back to life thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=472400
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2017, 12:48   #2927
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
IIRC, VW was fair traded back in the 60's
Only from poor memory

1957-ish ~~ $1,495 - ish

1958-ish ~~ $1,595 - ish

1959-ish ~~ $1,695 - ish

1960-ish ~~ $1,795 -ish

Waiting list (Tulsa) at least 6 MONTHs -- $100 deposit(?)

10 galllon tank, Air cooled, 38 HP(?) Lasted about 40,000 miles 'til engine replacement - If you were lucky. Cost $300 (?)

Wise money folks got one and had another on the waiting list.

More or less drove "free" for a few years - they were popular

No depreciation, no maintenance, no new tires, batteries etc.
__________________
Do the Buy Back. $25,625, too much to turn down
Start over with a fresh 36 bump 2 bump 2018 Golf 1.8L Wolfsburg
2015vwgolfdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2017, 14:40   #2928
Oilerlord
Veteran Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
Sounds like the Tesla has some formidable competition!
Based on other EVs on the market; not really. I haven't seen the Model 3 in person but I've driven the Chevy Bolt. As much as the Bolt gets compared with the Model 3, if the Model 3 turns out to be a smaller Model S, there is little competition there either.

By far, the Tesla was the one we wanted. If money was no object, a Model S would be in my garage.

Most of the others EVs we drove are called "compliance" cars for a reason. It's obvious that (other than the Leaf & i3) they began life as fossil fueled vehicles, but were the least cost option to convert into EVs for the manufacturers to comply with regulations. My B250e is no different but (for us) had the fewest compromises of the non-Tesla options.
__________________

Malone Stage 2 / DSG Flash / Rawtek Exhaust.
Oilerlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2017, 10:24   #2929
CraziFuzzy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Jurupa Valley
Default

My fiat certainly doesn't feel like a compliance car (though, yes, I know it is). The engineers really did an amazing job on the vehicle. About the only thing that makes it feel like a gasoline vehicle converted to electric is that the location of the PRND push buttons is huge because it's where the 5 speed stick normally would be, and they didn't manufacture a smaller dash piece for the EV. All of the drive and instrumentation electronics is tailored perfectly for the EV drivetrain.
CraziFuzzy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2017, 12:28   #2930
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast
ToofTek Inventor
 
bhtooefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newark, OH
TDI(s): None
Default

There's also the battery packaging, and how it raised the back seat floor, but let's face it, that back seat wasn't all that useful in the gasser, either.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
The really cool ToofTek made "Emperor's Clothes" injector fork risers only worked until someone pointed out that there wasn't any thing there.
bhtooefr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2017, 18:46   #2931
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerlord View Post
Based on other EVs on the market; not really. I haven't seen the Model 3 in person but I've driven the Chevy Bolt. As much as the Bolt gets compared with the Model 3, if the Model 3 turns out to be a smaller Model S, there is little competition there either.
By far, the Tesla was the one we wanted. If money was no object, a Model S would be in my garage.
.
I would definitely agree that the bolt is no competition for the model 3. To me, the model 3 bears a striking resemblance to a Porsche Panamera. The Bolt is just plain homely. I'm not sure what the GM designers were thinking there.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2017, 19:35   #2932
aja8888
Veteran Member
 
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas..I work in Oil & Gas...
Fuel Economy: About as good as it gets!
Default

It sounds to me that his Mecedes B250e is more of a competitor to the Model 3 based on his comments:

Quote:
As much as we would have LOVED to order the $110K Tesla, we bought what we felt was the next best thing - the Mercedes B250e. It's sort of a baby Tesla, with a Model S motor and Tesla battery pack, which gave us comfort that there is some tried-and-true technology in the car. I like that it came with a 36kWh battery, and that only 28kWh of it is being used.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
........"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
Bring the 1971 Beetle back to life thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=472400
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2017, 21:38   #2933
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast
ToofTek Inventor
 
bhtooefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newark, OH
TDI(s): None
Default

The difference is really the range.

People compare the Model 3 and the Bolt because if you want to go over 200 miles on a charge in a new battery-electric, and you want to spend under $40k, those are your two choices.

Interestingly, there are reasons to get the Bolt over the Model 3 - the Model 3 is almost certainly going to be a nicer car in most respects, and it offers the Supercharger network, but if you want a higher-riding vehicle, or you want a hatchback... you're getting a Bolt.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
The really cool ToofTek made "Emperor's Clothes" injector fork risers only worked until someone pointed out that there wasn't any thing there.
bhtooefr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2017, 23:08   #2934
Oilerlord
Veteran Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
It sounds to me that his Mecedes B250e is more of a competitor to the Model 3 based on his comments:
Not really. For compliance reasons, Mercedes contracted Tesla to adapt their technology for use in their existing gasoline / diesel B250 chassis. It's a safe bet they didn't expect (or want) to sell many of them given their $50K price tag and 90 mile range. The B250e was never intended to sell in volume. I'm guessing they lost at least $15,000 per car, but was a necessary car to raise corporate average fuel economy to continue the business of selling profitable SUV's. Since it was introduced in July, 2014, less than 4,000 B250e's have been sold.

With that said, I love driving it. In 14 months, I've put ~19,000 miles on it. It's nearly silent, uses no gas, no oil changes, no issues. Quite often, I charge it up on days from my solar, or for free from public charging sites. For the city car that it is, it's been great.
__________________

Malone Stage 2 / DSG Flash / Rawtek Exhaust.
Oilerlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2017, 05:52   #2935
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
I would definitely agree that the bolt is no competition for the model 3.

To me, the model 3 bears a striking resemblance to a Porsche Panamera. The Bolt is just plain homely.

I'm not sure what the GM designers were thinking there.

Cheap
__________________
Do the Buy Back. $25,625, too much to turn down
Start over with a fresh 36 bump 2 bump 2018 Golf 1.8L Wolfsburg
2015vwgolfdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2017, 05:58   #2936
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerlord View Post
......snip.....

The B250e was never intended to sell in volume. I'm guessing they lost at least $15,000 per car,

but was a necessary car to raise corporate average fuel economy to continue the business of selling profitable SUV's.

Since it was introduced in July, 2014, less than 4,000 B250e's have been sold. ....snip..... .
The results of loony toon CAFE nutsolla
__________________
Do the Buy Back. $25,625, too much to turn down
Start over with a fresh 36 bump 2 bump 2018 Golf 1.8L Wolfsburg
2015vwgolfdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2017, 06:34   #2937
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast
ToofTek Inventor
 
bhtooefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Newark, OH
TDI(s): None
Default

CAFE does some very useful things, though.

First off, it ensures that the profits from inefficient vehicles are ultimately pushed into higher efficiency vehicle development, preventing automakers from stagnating and causing conditions like the 1970s malaise era or the 2008 auto industry collapse.

Second, because it also requires actual sales of the efficient vehicles, it means that the used market is full of them, improving availability of efficient vehicles to used buyers. This means that people aren't entirely screwed when oil prices spike, as they were in 1973 and in 2003-2008. (Just look at how used values for TDIs - and even older diesels - skyrocketed during that time. That's because CAFE was toothless during that time, and there weren't many efficient vehicles, especially nice ones, in the used market.)
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug_Nut View Post
The really cool ToofTek made "Emperor's Clothes" injector fork risers only worked until someone pointed out that there wasn't any thing there.
bhtooefr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2017, 07:32   #2938
2015vwgolfdiesel
Veteran Member
 
2015vwgolfdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: City mid 40s ~ Road mid 50s
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
CAFE does some very useful things, though.

First off, it ensures that the profits from inefficient vehicles are ultimately pushed into higher efficiency vehicle development,.... snip....

Second, because it also requires actual sales of the efficient vehicles, it means that the used market is full of them, improving availability of efficient vehicles to used buyers. .... snip....
Points taken

As I am a bottom feeder buyer (like a VW Golf (S) DSG) rather than a 30K+ VW something or another, I personally do profit.

As for the need to own a used car, those days are gone for me (and mine)

Looking forward to 36 months, bumper to bumper, on my new 2017 (or) 2018 Golf (S) TSi
__________________
Do the Buy Back. $25,625, too much to turn down
Start over with a fresh 36 bump 2 bump 2018 Golf 1.8L Wolfsburg
2015vwgolfdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2017, 07:38   #2939
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015vwgolfdiesel View Post

Looking forward to 36 months, bumper to bumper, on my new 2017 (or) 2018 Golf (S) TSi
Good call. The TSI will be much happier with the short trip driving that you do. And maybe your present golf will get the chance to roll over 100k miles.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2017, 08:24   #2940
aja8888
Veteran Member
 
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas..I work in Oil & Gas...
Fuel Economy: About as good as it gets!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Good call. The TSI will be much happier with the short trip driving that you do. And maybe your present golf will get the chance to roll over 100k miles.
Now that I am fully retired and driving way less (<10 K miles per year), I bought a 2017 Jetta TSI 1.4 liter, autobox. Nice little car and got over 40 MPG on a run to Dallas recently (with A/C on).

If I get tired of it in a few years, I can sell it or give it to one of the kids. I paid less than $15 K for it too.

But I may look for another ALH (I've had 6 so far) to play around with and fix up.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
........"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
Bring the 1971 Beetle back to life thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=472400
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GM, Nissan and Tesla Premier New Electric Vehicles in Detroit MarcusW General Automotive 1 January 17th, 2013 11:24
How many states exempt diesel vehicles for emissions? Angus Scrimm TDI (Diesel) Emissions 26 January 10th, 2011 21:25
Plug-in or Full-Electric Vehicles? bad idea TornadoRed General Automotive 63 January 16th, 2010 16:46
Extending range in Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) nicklockard General Automotive 1 March 6th, 2005 13:39
GM pulling the plug on electric vehicles BHarrison TDI News/Tech 4 May 7th, 2003 11:20


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19386 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 145.09 Kb. compressed to 122.89 Kb. by saving 22.20 Kb. (15.30%)]