First 500 miles = VW nightmare

Folks, looking for some advice here on how I should handle a situation. I've been a TDI owner since December 2000 when I purchased my New Beetle TDI. Aside from the door buzzer going out, there were NO PROBLEMS whatsover in my Beetle for the 11,000 miles that I owned the car. I decided to replace it with a VW Golf, to gain some more trunk space and rear passenger room. Bought a brand new 2002 VW Golf GL TDI.

From the moment I signed the papers and drove it off the lot, I've had trouble. In the last two weeks, the car has been at the dealer more than at my house. As I drove the car off the lot, I heard a popping noise from the front end. This problem later turned out to be defective wheel bearings after the dealer worked on it four times, and took the entire front suspension apart. The car also had a passenger-side seat that wouldn't lift up, and required the seat frame to be replaced.

I've had the car at the dealer a total of five times, and they've successfully gotten grease spots all over the seats of my beige interior, faded the interior in spots by trying to clean the grease spots off, and this morning, I found a chip in the windshield that doesn't look like a rock chip. (Frankly, I haven't had the car enough to have caused this - it looks like it was hit by a tool or something but I can't prove it.) Now, the car has to go back again because they screwed up the alignment doing all this work on the front suspension. AND, when I'm rolling to a stop I hear this growl/grinding noise from the front wheels that I didn't hear before.

This whole ownership experience has gone from bad to worse! Any ideas how I should handle it?

Comments appreciated.
Thanks.
J.R.

God, I recommend a couple of really BIG gin and tonics.....

Sounds like my car. I had to bring mine in 9 times, but everything is working now. Didn't have the chipped window and oiled up seats though.

Good luck, and do try the G & T's.

Sounds like you may need to find a better repair shop. How is the reputation of other dealers' repair shops (for warranty fixes)?

Check your local lemon laws. Sounds like you might have gotten the bad egg of the bunch.

In addition to lemon laws applicable in your area, there is a VW Tech Service Bulletin that deals with cars/situations such as yours.

Perhaps someone else from in here can help point you to the VW TSBs.

Try calling the VWOA regional rep for entertainment, if nothing else.

Which dealer? So i can avoid them.

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: gardentender ]</p>

The dealer is Central VW. I'm not so pissed about the dealer - they've actually been pretty helpful. The bulk of the problem is that they been stuck cleaning up the mess for VW's poor workmanship on this Golf. The car has 500 miles on it, most of that driving it to and from the dealer.

It seems that everything not German-made on this car has problems, with the exception of the tranny. There are rattles in the driver door, rattles in the dash, rattles from the cupholder, wind noise from the doors, etc.

Even the driver-side door seems mis-aligned. When you open the door, you can see it sag downward. Is this normal??? It's difficult to close at times.


J.R.

Sounds like there wasn't much wrong with the car, but the dealer has no idea how to fix it.

Even though the car wouldn't be a "lemon" if it were in competent hands, you should look into the lemon laws anyway. But first, try another dealer if there is one in your area. These guys simply have no clue how to fix the car.

They owe you new seats, by the way.

-mickey

Sounds like dealer incompetence to me, but if not, where was your golf built? Brazil?
I'm not up to date on which plant makes what anymore, I honestly only cared that much when I bought mine, sorry.
I know it SHOULDN'T matter where it was built, but who knows?

After reviewing your post, I'm sticking with the crappy service department hypothesis. Go elsewhere then come back and REAM THEM A NEW ONE.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Great advice. Tomorrow, I'm going to sit down and document everything, including all the wait time in the lobby, etc. Out of the 500 miles on the car, there was 88 on it when I bought it, 50 was put on it by the dealer during the course of the car being worked on, and the rest is me driving to/from the dealer. I've only been able to drive the car to work three or four times!

I can direct some of the blame at the dealer for things like grease spots all over. However, VW needs to bear the bulk of the blame for building a car with a number of problems in the first place. The dealer is trying to clean up that mess - they could have been better, I agree. But the dealer didn't build a car with defective seats, defective wheel bearings, and an interior that rattles louder than the stereo.

The car was built in Brazil. The dealer gave me a brand new Mexico-made Jetta tonight, as a loaner. Nice car - very quiet, smooth, no rattles. Ahhhh reminds me of my Beetle.

J.R.

In my understanding, in order to best take advantage of lemon laws, you should keep your own running log of circumstances associated with any, workmanship characteristic, service disposition, actual work, unintended consequences, and subsequent assessments. Write up your observations and summary at the dealership and have the service writer sign off on them. Record your personal expenses of time and inconvenenience. Besides any lemon law litigation, the dealer's awareness that a very precise log of what goes on is being kept will likely help increase the priority and attention to detail your car gets. Determine who at VWOA or locally should recieve your formally stated complaints and relevant log documentation. CC everyone of interest including the dealer upper management. Any lemon law correspondence should be CC'd to VWOA and the dealer managment.

Do not underestimate this: Document, document, document.

Do not act with anyone like you are easy to deal with or are satisfied. Always couch your satisfaction in the context of time and a thorough assessment. Never be in a hurry to "just get going" when dealing with the individual issues and firmly insist same from anyone associated with the dealership. The dealer personnel are infinitely more adept at manipulating people that most any customer, so do not underestimate their tactics of confidence. Park the car in the dealer front parking lot if you have to bring it back yet again with a sign in the window that says "You tell me why this is not a lemon". Insist on a full third pary interior detail service paid for by the dealer if there is any spotting of the fabric.

Make your goal a replacement car. Philosophically, the problem is VW's, not yours as you bought quality in good faith and should be forced to accept no less.

I also bought a Golf GL 2002, and with 800 mi. there are no problems to report, yet. I did put about 50 miles on the car before I signed though.

Well, folks. Today is day five of my car being in the dealer - just this week. Since I took delivery of the car on November 21st, it has spent a total of ten days at the dealer for repairs. Defects discovered:
1) Defective Wheel bearings
2) Improperly installed sway bar bushings
3) Defective seat frame - passenger side
4) evaporator housing not fastened to firewall
5) Improperly installed drivers-side door (sags down)

This car has to be the most absolutely horrid example of quality control I've ever seen. The drivers-side door sags down when you open it making it difficult to close and giving all sorts of loud wind noise. The evaporator housing was rattling around in the dash because it wasn't attached to the firewall, etc.

Will VW buy it back? I doubt it. I have a case open with them. Yesterday some A-hole from VWoA called me and talked to me about my problem while he was eating lunch! One of the most disgustingly rude people I've ever talked to. He didn't seem to care one bit that I bought a new car weeks ago and I've been able to drive it to work about three times.

I'm just so disappointed with VW!! Sorry for the rant... but I spent a lot of money on a new car and got a piece of junk! blah!

J.R.

Getting a car Lemon lawed is 50% proof, and 50% psycological trauma. It seems to me from what I've heard they always try to make it seem as though you can't do it. That you just have to live with it. Just don't give up and make them fix it over and over until it is perfect. You bought a new car with quality in mind, not a car that acts like it has 300k miles on it. Hang in there, and don't blame VW in general. Lemons happen with every marque.

I don't know why he has to jack around getting his car fixed.Why should he have to keep going back to the dealer.I think when you buy a new car,you expect it to run right,and when it doesn't,the dealer should fix it fast the first time.
It sounds like VW should take this car back fast,before word spreads about the lousy build/repair quality.
Un fortunately,in the car business one bad apple CAN spoil the whole barrel.
You may want to stay away from the car because of the lousy service,or you may just want to stay away from the lousy cars.
I wouldn't want either reputation.

Give EM HELL JR-
You are off to an extremely bad start- I have had 10 year old VWs that sound better than what you got!!!!

If pressed - I would threated to dress up like a BIG LEMON and hang out in front of the dealership!
Make a lemon suit out of foam rubber and yellow spray paint!
Show up with the suit in the back of the car-you may not need to wear it!

I am sure that customers would be interested in your story (My car was in the shop for a week! I picked it up afterhours on Friday evening- there were LOTS of people looking at cars on the lot after hours- I told them about my ordeal they immediately LEFT)

Never underestimate the power of embarrassment (theirs,not yours!)
Dressing like a lemon might get you on TV as well.

Hehe! Thanks for the good laugh. I needed that. Somehow, I think I'd rather just leave them the car than dress up like a lemon. hehehe

It's just inconceivable how VW could put together a car and forget to fasten the evaporator to the firewall. Fortunately, my dealer has been very honest and upfront about what is going on.

They're working on the door problem today. When you open the drivers side door, it sags down about a half an inch or more. Not good. How they are going to fix that...? I just don't want to ask. Hopefully it doesn't involve a torch.

The sales manager is going to be back from vacation on Monday. I'm going to have a conversation with him, and see if I can't get them to replace the car as a gesture of goodwill. I mean, the car exhibited defects from the first day I owned it, and it's been in and out of the dealer on a VERY regular basis, since. The car is new 500 miles - 100 on it when I bought it, and the dealer has probably put 100 on it during their road testing. That means I've driven the car 300 miles. I've driven their loaner more miles than that!

Regarding the lemon laws - I've done some research and it doesn't look like I'll qualify. It looks like a waste of time. The dealer has provided me with a comparable loaner car during this ordeal, and many of my complaints involve rattles which generally aren't covered (even if it means that major components were rolling around behind the dash. )

I really don't hate VW. I loved my Beetle TDI - great car, no problems. But I really think they should admit that this car is a lemon and just replace it with another one. I REALLY don't feel good about the fact that my front suspension has been disassembled and reassembled more than once, body panels removed to lube bushings, dash completely removed and reinstalled twice, door removed and reinstalled, both door panels removed, etc. When I called my service advisor last night, he warned me not to come down there because they had the entire front part of the interior of the car remove. ARGGHHHHHH!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! It will never be the same.

Ok, I'll stop crying now.... sniff sniff.

J.R.

GET PICTURES OF YOUR CAR ALL TAKEN APART!!!!!!
Useful in court?

How bout huge cardboard cutouts with a lemon on them-stuck to the side of the car!
Hire some college kids to dress up like lemons and picket
I had problems but not as bad as YOURS! Ugh!

You must get the dealers attention- offer to call TV stations with consumer advocate - TV station would probably love a story like that

500 miles and the wheel bearings are f*cked??

If that's not a lemon, then I don't know what is.

If you're not attached to the color, get them to trade it for another one. One with good bearings and clean seats.

I wonder if the car was not one that had an accident, was fixed, and sold as a new car. I had a Mazda Miata that this happened to. Sounds like everything could be due to having had body work done to the car, except perhaps the wheel bearings. You might consider having a good body shop look for signs of repair to the structure of the car.

Here in Oklahoma, in order to impose the Lemon Law, if the same problem has been repaired by the dealer at least 3 times and is still not fixed, then you can start claiming it's a lemon.
I had a Mazda MX3 that had clunking sounds coming from the front end while braking and the dealer attempted to repair 4 times with no resolve. I wrote a letter to the dealer's GM detailing the problem and supporting service repair orders. He immediately called me, set up a meeting, called in the factory service rep and ultimately got the car fixed.
Since they were able to fix the problems with your Golf I'm not sure you could impose the Lemon Law however with all of your problems VW might make a good faith jesture of replacing the car. I'd talk to an attorney.

I suggest you ask the dealer politely first before you go the legal route. I am sure he wants to sell more cars, and, he has more "pull" with VWOA than you before his lawyer chats with yours. That way the two of you come away as "friends", and VWOA ends up with a highly satifdied customer that will most certainly buy again, and have a very positive story to tell other potential customers. The other way at the very least buys VW big trouble and several lost sales. Obviously the problem is either a bad apple got by QC, or with all that bad front-end stuff it sounds as if that unit had a fairly rough trip up from the factory to you.

dont pull the lemon signs or posters till you have to.. once you do,, you will loose any candor in dealing with the dealer and he will play hardball.. but as said earler, do document everything and do it well... the dealer did not build the car and it is his goodwill that will help you the most.. but once you reach an impass and they refuse to help you, then you can pull out all the stops... document document document...

by the way this car wasnt made around the "cinco de mayo" (5th of may) celebrations in mexico was it??? or maybe during the strike??? look into the manufacter date.. you might be onto something big here...

best of luck bill

Tin Man's got a point...with that sagging door and other defects, that car may have been in a wreck.

Worth checking.

Anthony

Could it have been dropped off the truck? Or flood/storm damaged?

check carfax...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>by the way this car wasnt made around the "cinco de mayo" (5th of may) celebrations in mexico was it??? <hr></blockquote>
TexasBill:

It is a Golf, so it was made in Brazil not Mexico.

Thanks all for the great advice / suggestions. I am so disgusted with VWoA at this point, I'm not sure I'd ever consider a VW again. The car has 500 miles, most of that traveling to/from the dealer for service. I've owned the car 26 days and it's now spent 13 of those days in service. Fully half the time I've owned the car it has been sitting in a service bay at the dealer. Unnacceptable.

According to VWoA, I should accept the car back and continue to spend my time getting items repaired under warranty. VW's policy only allows for vehicles to be "bought back" under extreme circumstances. My car is apparently not one of those cases. Apparently, they've had customers with more problems than me. They've had customers with worse problems than doors that sag down about a half an inch when you open them, and the evaporator rolling around in the dash. No, these are minor "adjustments" according to VWoA.

According to VW, they've honored their commitment to me by selling me a car and honoring the warranty, which provides me with repairs at no "cost". Nevermind the fact that I've driven a total of hundreds of miles to the dealer, spend dozens of hours of my time on this issue, and probably put myself and my family at risk driving a vehicle with some of these types of problems. That's not important to them. Nevermind that the dealer has put more miles on the car than I have!!!

According to the dealer, my car is now certified in perfect working order, and VWoA's dealings with me are done. If I have any future problems, I can contact them and open another useless "case" and get the same sorry-a$$ answer from them.

VW built a car with a number of defects and refuses to take responsbility beyond the repairs. Funny thing is, there are slim profit margins in a Golf GL for both VW and the dealer. Yet, the dealer has spent dozens of man-hours in warranty repair time, as well as hundreds of dollars in parts at VWoA's expense to solve a problem that could have much more cost-effectively been dealt with by buying the car back in exchange for another. Now, however, not only has VW spent thousands of dollars paying warranty claims on a car built with a number of defects, but they've pissed off a customer to the point where he is no longer a customer, and they lost the most valuable asset - repeat business.

If the car continues to give me problems, I will continue to bring it back at Volkswagen's expense. And they'll spend even more money to avoid buying the car back, and may end up buying it back anyway if I pursue the Lemon Laws.

VWoA is useless, and the drunks in Brazil who built my car should be ashamed of themselves! At least the German-built powertrain seems okay...

J.R.

One positive is that you have a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty for 2002 as opposed to the 2 yr / 24,000 mile warranty on the 2001. Hopefully you will be able to enjoy the car now and not continue to have problems.