New road hazard

Tsagoth

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I meant to post this a few weeks ago, but I kept forgetting. Anyway, if you come up here to Grey or Bruce counties, there's a new road hazard. Two separate friends of ours have reported it, so I'm reasonably sure that it's true. While driving to work, they both reported seeing deer crossing the road. No big deal, right ? What was new was the cougar(s) chasing the deer. :eek:

So if you suffer a deer strike up here, try not to get eaten !
 

Precisiontuning

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[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL][SIZE=-1]I hope they dont shoot and kill this magnificent animal. [/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL][SIZE=-1]FLINTON — Another Eastern Ontario farmer has come forward with an account of mysterious wounds sustained by a horse that the owner believes were inflicted by a cougar.
Debbie Miles of Addington Highlands Township lives on a hobby farm near Flinton with her husband, Dave, and five children. Miles called The AgriNews to report her own story, after reading the December article about an alleged cougar attack on a horse at the Theo Booyink farm in South Stormont Township.
In his official report last October, South Stormont’s livestock evaluator ruled that a large open wound on the chest of Booyink’s quarterhorse mare, which survived the incident, was inflicted by a cougar.
The finding was virtually unprecedented. There has been no scientific evidence in decades to confirm that wild cougars still exist in Ontario — although the species is officially listed as endangered, not extinct. Anecdotal sightings are reported ever year.
A subsequent investigation into the South Stormont incident by Ministry of Natural Resources officials concluded there was nothing to indicate cougar involvement.
"In most cases there would be bites on the back of the head and neck. There would also be claw marks. This case doesn’t have those things," said Shaun Thompson, an MNR ecologist with the Kemptville district.
The wounds observed by the Miles family on their six-year-old Belgian draft horse in early November would seem to fit the profile better.
The gelding turned up one morning with "a bite to the back of the neck and claw marks on the shoulders and hips," said Debbie Miles, who believes the horse might have been jumped within a grove of hemlocks inside the small field he shared with two other horses and a handful of goats.
"There was hair missing on part of his back, and it looked as if it (the predator) fell off to the side and bit him on the shoulder."
She said one of the other horses was also scratched.
The previous evening, at about 11 p.m, the family’s Kuvas-breed guard dog "went berserk," she said, something the family initially attributed to the presence of bears in the bush around their home.
Her son, 17-year-old Jamie, works with the Belgian as a logger. He nursed the horse back to health by applying anti-septic to the wounds.The horse lost weight while on the mend but has made a full recovery.
She said hunters have told her they’ve spotted cougar tracks not far from the Miles homestead, she said.
"There’s about five people who have seen them," she said. "I reported it to the Ministry of Natural Resources because we had so many come in to say they had seen them."
Freeburn earlier believed she might have had a cougar-related incident at her own hobby farm, after one of her pregnant beef cows disappeared into the bush and emerged days later with strange wounds and minus the full-term calf she had carried. But those wounds, Freeburn later determined, were caused by bullets.
Miles also reported her injured Belgian to the MNR, but claimed officials showed little interest until she told them about Freeburn’s cow next door.
Although Shaun Thompson’s jurisdiction doesn’t cover Addington Highlands, he acknowledged hearing about an incident involving a cow there, but nothing about a draft horse.
Admitting to some frustration, he explained that people have been waiting too long to report their cougar encounters to the ministry — weeks or months after the fact, in some cases. That delay, he suggested, makes the information virtually useless to officials because physical evidence at the site, which could finally corroborate the existence of cougars in Ontario, is likely to have disappeared.
"Evidence like scat (feces), tracks, fur and scratch marks are very ephemeral, and very sensitive to weather and other disturbances."
According to the ecologist, the MNR is "extremely interested" in collecting information on cougar sightings and related incidents from the public.
In the Ottawa Citizen last month, Thompson appealed to people to call him at 258-8235 with their reports.
Callers should understand that he requires new and recent information, "very quickly" after the sighting occurs.
Those who report tracks in mud or snow should protect an imprint or two by covering with a light-coloured plastic pail (which won’t melt the snow) secured in place with a rock. "Take a picture of the track with a ruler beside it," he added. "Take a quick shot."
Snapping a photograph while in the process of observing an alleged cougar, if possible, would be helpful, too.
The MNR is currently working on a single protocol for handling calls from the public regarding cougar sightings and follow-up, according to Thompson.
At the present time, the MNR has not decided to set up automated monitoring devices, such as hair traps or infrared cameras, so the eyes and ears of the public are the principle tool in the hunt for felis concor.
"We’re always going to need the people out there to keep observing."
Should any physical evidence turn up, officials could subject it to DNA evidence, possibly at Trent University, and the scrutiny of outside experts.
When asked about the role the province’s cadre of municipal livestock evaluators might play in tipping the MNR about unusual livestock wounds, he agreed that communications could be improved.
Reports filed by livestock evaluators are handled through the Ministry of Agriculture, not the MNR. Thompson only learned of the evaluator’s reported cougar attack in South Stormont after reading about it in the media.
The ecologist also put to rest persistent rumours that MNR has been quietly reintroducing the cougar in Ontario.
The MNR must follow an elaborate public protocol when initiating any recovery effort for a particular species, he said, including the establishment of a recovery team.
He said MNR has no recovery team in place for the cougar.
"It’s not something you would ever do in secret," he insisted, adding any politician who proposed aiding the cougar's recovery with a reintroduction program would be committing political suicide.
A recovery team could be established in the future, to oversee any existing population of cougars, if and when they are proven to exist. "That might be prudent," he said.
If cougars are prowling the area, it could pose a challenge to the province’s system of reimbursing farmers for livestock predation.
According to Derek Nelson, executive assistant at Agriculture Minister Helen Johns’ office, the Livestock Poultry and Honey Bee Protection Act compensates farmers for kills inflicted by dogs, coyotes and wolves. He said other regulations also provide compensation for livestock killed by bears.
But there is no compensation for cougar kills. The issue first came to light in the South Stormont case.
If farmers want cougars added to the list, Nelson suggested, they’ll have to lobby the government for the change.
According to Thompson, a farmer who shoots a cougar while protecting his livestock would likely wind up in court because of the cat’s protected status. [/SIZE][/FONT]
 

Precisiontuning

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Bradtholomew said:
Sure! I'll start a new thread tomorrow probably, this one's about man-eating cats. ;)
She wont eat human. She is on strict Beef and Vabbit diet. Human meat is full of preservatives. All Cats were informed to avoid human meat.
 

Tsagoth

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Well the two I was told about weren't mysterious footprints or some such. The first was April was driving to work and the deer burst out from an embankment quite a bit higher than her and she said the deer jumped over the roof and into the woods. The cat landed on the hood, in hot pursuit. Gave her a bit of a shock. She thinks it's a government conspiracy, to reintroduce them.

The other was Dave driving to work and he saw the deer cross ahead of him. I don't think much of its chances, because he said two cats were after it.

Keep the catnip handy, might save your life !
 

40X40

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I don't know the law in Ontario and it varies even here in the states, but if my horse(s) or livestock are attacked by a wild animal.. Well, which one do you think I shoot?

Magnificent animal, my Fat A**.

If your horses and livestock aren't safe, your kids aren't either. We have them in Missouri and they are left alone as long as they don't feed on Stock and Humans. One was hit by a car and killed near Kansas City just a few years ago. Until then, the State Fish and Game folks denied there were any in the state. (Hard to deny a dead Cougar on the 6 o clock news!!)

Live and let live, But don't cross the line.

Bill
 

OhMagoo

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Cougars in Ontario too. There's a gravel pit up Coldwater way that has a rattler infestation. Curious what's next instore... pirannha? gators? big a$$ spiders... :rolleyes:
 

Precisiontuning

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Spoken like a true American ;) Kill em all let God sort em out :eek:

40X40 said:
I don't know the law in Ontario and it varies even here in the states, but if my horse(s) or livestock are attacked by a wild animal.. Well, which one do you think I shoot?

Magnificent animal, my Fat A**.

If your horses and livestock aren't safe, your kids aren't either. We have them in Missouri and they are left alone as long as they don't feed on Stock and Humans. One was hit by a car and killed near Kansas City just a few years ago. Until then, the State Fish and Game folks denied there were any in the state. (Hard to deny a dead Cougar on the 6 o clock news!!)

Live and let live, But don't cross the line.

Bill
 

dttech

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If I had livestock and anything was after them I would not hesitate to shoot them either. Especially if there is no way to get re-imbursed.
It's usually a different story when the shoe is on the other foot.
 

Precisiontuning

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dttech said:
If I had livestock and anything was after them I would not hesitate to shoot them either. Especially if there is no way to get re-imbursed.
It's usually a different story when the shoe is on the other foot.
You will kill an endangered species to save a chicken or Goat?
 

dttech

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Precisiontuning said:
You will kill an endangered species to save a chicken or Goat?
I'm thinking you have never lived on a farm. If any animal comes once and has success on it's hunt, you can be guaranteed that it will return, especially for an easy kill. Most predators like that kill more for fun than food.
In answer to your question, to save 1 chicken I probably would not, to save a goat, I think I might but to save many of either I wouldn't even think twice.
I guess it all depends on life experience as to what an individual would do.
 

Precisiontuning

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Here is an idea. Capture it and release it back in a remote part of ontario.
However; shooting and killing sounds much more fun.
 

VDubbing

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Having lived on a farm for several years and a few coyotes under my belt. I suppose i would shoot the cougar as well. Depends on how often and what he was taking. We lost several lambs and a full grown sheep as well. I bagged a couple of coyotes and then we got a donkey and well i could then put the gun away
 

dttech

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Capture and release, hhmmmmm. Great idea, then it can go kill someone else's livestock since it now has a taste for for fresh farm grown meat.
And yes killing it would be much more fun, that is how I spend all my spare time is by going out and shooting every animal I can find.
Like I said before, life experience dictates what you do in certain situations.
You may fix something that isn't broken because experience tells you it may break soon. Same deal.
 

Precisiontuning

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Since when there are farm lands in remote parts of Ontario.
I guess we have different way of thinking, I value life of endangered species and some dont.
At the rate we are destroying wild life my way of thinking seems to be in the minority.

Lets hope the next generation has a little more respect for earth's inhabitants.
 

REDNECKDZL

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We got dairy farms all over Ontario, so yes unless you go 12 hours north of TO you'll run into farms, and there is even some farms up there.

There should be enough wildlife in northern ontario to sustain a large cat like that without bothering farm animals.
 

ymz

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One of my neighbors drives a Mercury Cougar, and she's definitely a road hazard... (but she has been that for quite a while, so... not a "new" road hazard...)

Yuri.
 

Precisiontuning

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ymz said:
One of my neighbors drives a Mercury Cougar, and she's definitely a road hazard... (but she has been that for quite a while, so... not a "new" road hazard...)

Yuri.

LOL, you made my day. I could not stop laughing :D
 

TDIFred

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check out the "Two Cougars and a Cafe" on Burlington Street in Hamilton. I am not sure what kind of cougar one might find there... yowza!
 

dttech

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Precisiontuning said:
Since when there are farm lands in remote parts of Ontario.
I guess we have different way of thinking, I value life of endangered species and some dont.
At the rate we are destroying wild life my way of thinking seems to be in the minority.

Lets hope the next generation has a little more respect for earth's inhabitants.
I think most people value the lives of endangered species but when they start costing you time and money, the value of their lives start to tip the scale the other way.
It's like with the black bear. People got in an uproar saying what a great animal they were and it's a shame so many get shot and it's a shame there aren't more around so they cancelled the spring hunt. Now they are everywhere including where you don't want them. They are in campsites making a mess and scaring people, they rip into camping trailers and they get into people's garbage and make huge messes. People say the black bear won't go after humans either yet I have a friend who was chased by one for no reason. If you were camping and your campsite got invaded by a bear while you were in it with your family, you probably wouldn't like bears. If you've only every seen one in a zoo you would think they are a lovely animal.
I've heard David Suzuki (who is supposed to be an expert) say on TV that wolves only kill to eat and they eat most of what they kill. I know first hand that is not true. I grew up in Bancroft and I could take you out anytime in the winter and show you deer that have been killed by wolves and left after 1 or 2 bites never to return.
It's all in perspective shaped by experience. All this to say we could both probably argue the point all day and I'm sure we would never come to an agreement.
Bottom line is whether it's a couger or a bear or a beaver even, if they are destroying something that is mine, I will deal with it if need be. Probably not after 1 time but any more than that for sure.
That is only my opinion and I'm sure many would agree and many would not.
I love to hunt and many people are against it yet those same people would sit down over a good steak and say it is mean for me to kill an animal.
Anyway, I do love animals although some may say that obviously I don't.
The funny thing is that my wife hates guns and hunting but she knew it was a part of my life when we married so we agree to disagree and leave it at that. I leave my guns up North at my parents and all is well. It's not ideal for either of us but it works.
I guess things would be pretty quiet if we all agreed on everything.
 

Tsagoth

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Precisiontuning said:
Here is an idea. Capture it and release it back in a remote part of ontario.
However; shooting and killing sounds much more fun.
I dunno, I find shooting things somewhat boring. In this case, were a big cat to kill one of our horses, I'd shoot it without question. She Who Must Be Obeyed I think would give it a freebie, and try for a capture. Were it to kill a second horse though, she'd pass me the ammunition.
 

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Ahhh, interesting post. Now how about african farmers protecting their crops from herds of elephants destroying their work....protected animals, starving people trying to grow crops for the ever increasing number of human beings on this planet....And since we usually don;t eat horsemeat in Ontario..(some do, but it is rather rare) we will kill anyways??

Lots of ways to go on this post...killing for the sake of eating is probably ok....killing for sport is not. And eating a few deer steaks, and turfing the rest is wrong in my opinion...Overpopulation of deer is a significant threat in some areas, and using them as a food source is a good option. Big cats returning...how nice...maybe it will take care of the deer overpopulation. I guess if you have horses, you better bring them in the barn at night....much like they did long ago, before the cats diappeared.

Craig Oh, and I did live on a farm for quite a few years...I still can/t understand why chickens stand around as you lop their buddies heads off for dinner....if it was my butt, it would be clearing the fence as the axe fell...
 
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VDubbing

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LOL craig.....clearing the fence. we had a couple of roosters that must have escaped from another nearby farm and decided to take roost outside my bedroom window. Those suckers can fly when being chased by a black lab. They would find themselves on top of the shed until the dog was no where to be seen.
 

LNXGUY

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You can't blame a bear for ripping into your campsite if you are stupid enough to leave food out. Especially in the spring, probably not the best time to go camping since the bears are out and about looking for food.

If someone leaves there food out, or a cooler open, they deserve to have a bear wake them up and scare the **** out of them. Perhaps it would be a well learned lesson for next time. I have seen more then my fair share of bears during hunting/fishing/camping trips and I can tell you one thing, they are more scared of you then you are of them.

With more of their habitat being lost to new housing developement and population growth, what do people expect? Bears, coyotes and cougars aren't stupid.. If they can get an easy meal they'll take it. Coyotes and cougars have always been a problem for farmers, and that will never change.

With regards to the whole deer problem, I would much rather have one down the sights of my 30.06, then infront of me on the 400... Deer population has exploded, more and more are dieing from disease and starvation then ones being killed by prey or hunting.. They need to extend the deer season if you ask me, a solid 2-3 weeks for shotgun would probably help out quite a bit.
 
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