car just died

chris77

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Location
Florida, Ft. Myers
TDI
Golf GLS TDI, 2000, Black
This seems very strange. I have a 2000 Golf TDI, 5 speed, and the car just quits while driving down the road. This has happened 3 times since Saturday. The first time I thought I might have ran the car out of fuel, but after I put 1 gallon in the tank, and spent about 5 minutes trying to start it up, the car died on me again at the filling station. I managed to put exactly 12.5 gallons of fuel in the tank while at the filling station, which means that the car still had 1/2 of fuel in the tank when the car died the first time. Other interesting variable in this problem is the fact that it was 25 degrees when this happened the first time, and currently it is most likely well below 0. I also had the timing belt changed last Thursday at Vickbaily Volkswagen. I had them put the new and improved 2002-80,000 belt on the car. Has anyone had any similar problems? And if so, what is wrong with this car? The car has 59,500 miles on the clock.
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
How cold is it now? Much below 25F? Did you add any additive when you filled up?

Replaced relay 109 yet?
 

Torque!

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2000
Location
Boston, Massachusettes, USA
TDI
2001 MK4 Jetta TDI - 196K
Search around and you will find many have had these exact symptoms. Unfortunatly I decided to tow fearing I'd burn out my starter if I kept turning over the engine. The car has been stuck at the dealer for a couple days now and I half suspect that it will start for them whenever they get to it. I suspect bad fuel combined with cold weather. Like you it died while it was warm at an intersection. I had never heard of this behavior before. At one point earlier I felt some hesitation while accending a hill. This was also mentioned by a vermonter. If they don't look at it soon I'll head over there with a bottle of additive and a heat source.
I think we all need to be sure to keep the tank full and use good quality fuel. Winter powerservice wouldn't hurt either. I might also add this was the first day in this cold snap that I had not garaged the car overnight. It was a cold night -7.
 

scpd92

Active member
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
NY
TDI
01' Jetta RIP (flood), 13' Passat 6M
I experienced a similar problem last night on my 01 Jetta stick w/ Wetterauer chip. 11 consecutive days of less low teens and 20s in NY. Started at 5:30 w/o a problem drove approx 20 miles parked for 5.5 hrs. I resarted was approx 1/2 normal operating temp and 5 miles from starting point when vehicle sputtered and died. No restart possible. This morning I returned to car and found that fuel line between the filter and pump was liquid. PS Over an hour on hold w/ the VW roadside assist line whilst they kept hanging up on me only for them to eventually come on the line and advise they couldn't help me and to arrange for my own tow to dealer. Nope I haven't used any additives on that tank full. Is it jelling? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Additionally what is relay 109?

[ January 23, 2003, 19:20: Message edited by: scpd92 ]
 

fishbone

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Location
So.Ca.
TDI
jetta 02 black
You guys are most likely gelling up. I lived most
of life in the Midwest and have been in the transportation business that long. Diesels even
with block heaters will gell .Usually when you get
a sudden drop in temp.Put some additive in the rest of the winter. That should do the trick. Boy
I miss those -25 degree mornings lol
 

chris77

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Location
Florida, Ft. Myers
TDI
Golf GLS TDI, 2000, Black
Currently, the temperature here in North Carolina is about 4 degrees, and that’s not counting the wind chill factor. I believe the winds are supposed to blow anywhere from 20-50 miles per hour (i.e. possible temp –25). I had to leave the car at the gym because one: I thought the car was gelling. Or two: I had air in the lines from last Saturday’s mishap; it was just simply too hard on my starter. When I got out of the car I could smell the thing. Besides, my battery was almost dead as well. I guess around noon tomorrow I will go back the gym and make another attempt to start the thing. Of course, it this proves successful, I’ll run up the filling station and fill the tank back up, in addition to adding more fuel additive. I do have 1 question though, after the timing belt change it seem like my fuel mileage has dropped dramatically, does this have anything to do with the weather? Or is it something that I have not accounted for? Oh, by the way, I also had the oil changed as well. And the total bill for this service was $684.00-$50.00 for coupons, thus equaling $634.00. I had him keep the old fuel filter, but made sure that he did the water sep.
 

Scott Gifford

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Flint, MI
I had the exact same thing happen this afternoon in my 2000 New Beetle; car started up fine, drove for about 15 miles on the expressway, then just stopped. This happened once before, but I learned my lesson and started using an additive, and I thought I had this gelling thing whipped...

Does brand name matter much on diesel additives, or should pretty much anything work? When it starts to get cold, should I add more than the additive recommends? Is it possible to add too much? The antigel I bought wasn't any particular brand (it was only one they had at a 24-hour store), and said one jug treats 250 gallons, so I've been adding about 1/15 of the jug every time.

If I'm adding my own additive, do I still need to be careful of where I'm buying my fuel from?

One thing I did different was get fuel when I still had half a tank (I usually wait until I'm closer to empty); I added about half the normal amount of additive, and filled up. That's not likely to be part of the problem, is it?

I had the car towed and let it sit in a mechanic's garage for a few hours, and after that it started up fine. That sounds like gelling to me, but could it be the "relay 109" problem I've been hearing about? Anything else it's likely to be?

The other thing that's weird about this is the weather's been pretty much like this for 2 weeks, and I haven't had any problems.

Thanks for any hints, advice, etc. I'm new to this forum, so if I've missed something obvious please point me in the right direction.
 

MITBeta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Location
Boston's Metro South-West
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 2004 Sprinter CDI Passenger (Mid/High), former: 1996 Passat TDI Variant
Scott: I think most people around here use either Standyne, Power Service, or possibly an Amsoil product for their antigel, cetane boost, and lubricity additives. I know that you can get Power Service at any Walmart.

Given the use of additives, one should still be careful about where one buys fuel... always remember that you get what you pay for...

The reason that people are gelling up after driving for many miles is that the fuel isn't gelled, it's just starting to gel and is full of wax crystals. As you drive, these crystals accumulate in the filter, eventually starving the pump and engine of fuel.

Check under your dashboard (near the clutch pedel) for relay 109. If it's black, then some good preventative maintenance would be to replace it with the grey one for around $20. This will give you piece of mind.
 

VelvetFoot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2001
Location
Sand Lake, NY
TDI
NB, 2000, Yellow
It's gelling from the unseasonable cold snap.
Look at the bright side, when it's over you will get better economy because it's not cut with kerosene.
 

Dorado

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2001
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
TDI
New Beetle TDI, 2002, Cool White
Yep, pour in some anti-gel and buy diesel fuel from a station with good turnout, because, at least around here, stations will not pour in some anti-gel themselves, instead, they will just wait for the "winterized diesel" to be delivered.

Now, I wonder how much the relatively small fuel tanks in VW TDI's are responsible for gelling with otherwise sufficiently winterized diesel fuel (for vehicles with much bigger tanks). If that's so, then keeping the tank as full as possible in the TDI should help too, which is not a big deal, but I guess could be inconvenient for some.
 

lrpavlo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Location
Cocoa FL
TDI
09 Sportwagen DSG, 02 NB Auto
Scott you sure would be welcome to come to a Timing belt GTG at my place on Feb 8th. Lots of knowlegable people...
 

Scott Gifford

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Flint, MI
Thanks for all the advice. My Beetle stopped running again on my way into school this morning, so I've got a few more questions...

First, how often should I be changing my fuel filter? I've only been changing it at the recommended service intervals, about every 10,000 miles. Should that be sufficient?

Second, I'm kinda getting the feeling that gelling up in unseasonably cold weather is inevitable. Is it people's experience that even if you put in additive religiously and buy good fuel, you're still going to gel up if it gets a little cold?

Third, it turns out that the first time my car gelled up, in November, they thawed it out at the dealership, but they didn't change the fuel filter. Could that be the cause of the problem I'm having now? Is there any reasonable reason they wouldn't have changed the fuel filter, or should I be pretty unhappy with the folks at my dealership right now?

Thanks,

----Scott.
 

bendy24

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Location
Ontario Canada
Hi Scott, the same thing just happened to me yesterday! I am also at 60k and the tech explained that it was not diesel gelling, but moisture that plugged my filter. They changed the filter (should be changed every 30k anyway) and it seemed ok today. I'm driving a 2002 Golf TDI.
 

bendy24

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Location
Ontario Canada
Hi Scott, the same thing just happened to me yesterday! I am also at 60k and the tech explained that it was not diesel gelling, but moisture that plugged my filter. They changed the filter (should be changed every 30k anyway) and it seemed ok today. I'm driving a 2002 Golf TDI.
 

fishbone

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Location
So.Ca.
TDI
jetta 02 black
Scott You live in Flint plenty of truckstops around I know Fill up at the truckstop, They will
have winterized fuel.That will help.As far as additives go just make sure it has anti-gel additives. Get some good fuel and statrt from there
 

mcolmsted

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
St. Louis, MO
TDI
2003 VW Jetta Wagon
Our fuel gelled up earlier this week in our 2003 wagon (in Lansing, MI). No additives, so it was our own fault.
Dealer had it in the warm garage for 6hrs then added some Stanadyne and everything's great now! (Except I'm out $80 for not doing preventative maintenance!)

Make sure you get an additive with anti-gel--a few of the other posts have mentioned that some of them don't have that.
 

garrettp

Former Chip-Monk
Joined
May 23, 2000
Location
Oconto, WI
TDI
2000 JEDI
change the fuel filter every 20,000 miles.

add 4oz. of Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement every single tank (i use 16oz every fillup, even if only half a tank).

keep diesel 911 in the car if you do not use additive (or keep it incase you see another stranded TDI if you do use additive
).

wind chill will not effect a car that much except to wick away the heat of the engine. wind chill is only a human made up scale and does not effect the actual tempurature. your car is under amazing windchill when you drive. basically, the wind tries to keep you or your car as close to the ambient tempurature as possible. so, forget windchill when you talk about your car and the temp outside.

i had a call from a local TDI'er that his car was slowly dying and he though it to be the relay 109. i told him to hold on and i would be right over with Power Service Diesel 911. i got to his house, poured it in and then walked to his door. we talked for maybe 10 minutes and i started to crank his car. it took about 4 crank sessions of about 10 seconds each and the car fired up
.

USE ADDITIVE IN THE WINTER!!!! (and all year round for what that is worth). remember, WHITE bottle winter, SILVER for summer.

lastly, if you cannot find Power Service near you (go to a truck stop or Walmart and look for it), go to Halron Oil's website and call Carl and have him ship you some at a pretty good price. or if i am coing to your town, send me an e-mail and i will pick some up for you. they also sell Delvac 1 for a little under $20.
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
Originally posted by Scott Gifford:
So I just heard back from the dealer. They say that the fuel was gelled, and looked at the additive I was using and said it was "pretty strong stuff" and should be an adequate anti-gel.

They have a kit they want to install with a larger diameter fuel line. They say this should make the car more tolerant of slight gelling, and should keep it running long enough for everything to get heated up. But they have never installed one before, and so aren't really sure if it will help. Has anybody had this kit installed? Has it helped?

I suspect the problem may stem from the first time the car gelled up, before I knew enough about diesel to add additive. When the dealership took the car in, they never replaced the fuel filter; they inspected it, thought it looked fine, and put the same one back in. Could that be a cause?

Thanks again, everybody! This forum has been very helpful!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Scott,

which dealer and what kit? this is a new one for me.
 

Scott Gifford

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Flint, MI
Originally posted by GeWilli:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Scott Gifford:
So I just heard back from the dealer.

...

They have a kit they want to install with a larger diameter fuel line.

...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Scott,

which dealer and what kit? this is a new one for me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Howard Cooper in Ann Arbor. It's apparently a new one for them, too...
 

Scott Gifford

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Flint, MI
Originally posted by UPsolute Chip Tuning by garrett P.:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">change the fuel filter every 20,000 miles.

That's been done, AFAIK. It should have at least been changed at my last oil change, which was about 15,000 miles ago.

add 4oz. of Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement every single tank (i use 16oz every fillup, even if only half a tank).

That too, although a different brand.

USE ADDITIVE IN THE WINTER!!!! (and all year round for what that is worth). remember, WHITE bottle winter, SILVER for summer.

Again, I have been...

As far as I know, I've been doing everything that I'm hearing recommended, and I'm still having gelling problems. I'm a bit stuck (literally and figuratively)...

Thanks Garrett,

----ScottG.
 

Birdman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 1999
Location
Near Hagerstown MD.
TDI
Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
There is another part with bigger valves for the tank to help stop this problem but finding the number in all the differant threads is proving difficult. I believer impex sells it for 85+- $. I believe the updated part number is 1j0919183D The old number had a C instead of the D.

[ January 24, 2003, 16:40: Message edited by: Birdman ]
 

Scott Gifford

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Flint, MI
So I just heard back from the dealer. They say that the fuel was gelled, and looked at the additive I was using and said it was "pretty strong stuff" and should be an adequate anti-gel.

They have a kit they want to install with a larger diameter fuel line. They say this should make the car more tolerant of slight gelling, and should keep it running long enough for everything to get heated up. But they have never installed one before, and so aren't really sure if it will help. Has anybody had this kit installed? Has it helped?

I suspect the problem may stem from the first time the car gelled up, before I knew enough about diesel to add additive. When the dealership took the car in, they never replaced the fuel filter; they inspected it, thought it looked fine, and put the same one back in. Could that be a cause?

Thanks again, everybody! This forum has been very helpful!
 

Karmann-diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Maine, A'yuh
TDI
Jetta, 2000, Canyon Red
Birdman has it right. The updated part number for the fuel gauge sensor, which is also the fuel pick up & return is 1J0919183D. At Impex, they list that part number for all 98 & up Beetle TDI's, & also the 2000 & up Golf & Jetta TDI's. I removed mine from my 2000 Jetta the other day & found part of it was broken. Not sure if this could be your problem, but look Here for what I found so far.
 

chris77

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Location
Florida, Ft. Myers
TDI
Golf GLS TDI, 2000, Black
The car was gelling-up. I added about 1/2 tank of kerosene in addition to 1 whole bottle of "Diesel Kleen-winterized" to the tank. After about 2 minutes the car started up, and it has ran fine ever since. I don't think I will be having this problem in the future. Besides, I was told by the dealer ship in Spartanburg, SC (i.e. Vick bailey Volkswagen) that the kerosene will clean out any possible build up so soot in the intake. Latter.
 
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