Next generation renewable diesel now available in NorCal?

WeLikeBlue

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Location
Elk Grove, CA
TDI
2004.5 Passat
I am now running a 50/50 tank of D2 and HPR.

Pros: Engine seems more responsive (seems being the operative word here)
Exhaust is slightly less smoky when doing Italian tune-up
Exhaust doesn't smell as strongly as it did before
Price here is 10 cents/gal cheaper than next-cheapest D2 stations (I paid $2.99/gal two days ago)

Cons: Cannot tell any difference in fuel mileage (yet)
Can't tell if starting is any easier (never gets cold enough here to know:rolleyes:

I'll report back when I'm on 100% HPR and have some more observations.:)
Filled up just after the fuel light came on so what, about two gallons still in the tank? It took 16.4 to fill to the neck. As someone else posted, it doesn't foam like D2 so it was easier for me to fill up:)

So now I have 122 miles on this tankful.
- Definitely more responsive, especially at just off-idle in heavy traffic; just takes a ever-so-slight tap of the accelerator to get the car moving and it'll keep pulling steady.
- Definitely less smoke at WOT - more of a light haze. (There goes my anti-tailgating weapon:p)
- Slightly rougher idle?? In other words, my car had this habit of good, stable idle in Park, Neutral or Drive but in Reverse I could feel the idle surging rhythmically (and could see the tach needle waver too.) Now on HPR that behavior has lessened but I notice an ever-so-slight surging in Drive... but as I said, once off idle (say, 1000 rpm) it's all good.:confused:
- Fuel economy? Jury is still out. If there's a difference it's very subtle. I'll know more after a few tanks average but it's hard to get consistent readings when there's an accident on the freeway every three days or so:mad:
- Biggest change so far: Doesn't stink like regular diesel; exhaust is much less pungent.:cool:
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
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Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Well, I got 2 MPG better than my previous tank. Still easily within the normal range for this car. It's gotten that kind of mileage on regular diesel as well. It did idle noticeably smoother. The power delivery was better, smoked less. It's also cheaper than regular diesel. I'd drive out of my way to get this stuff.

If I had a commonrail, I'd fill up every tank I could with the stuff. The significant reduction in particulate matter will mean less regenerations and potentially prolonged DPF life...

And yes, B99 can help keep a leaky pump not leaky for a while by swelling the seals. But that's not always practical...

Bosch does use a different material for the pump head seal than what the pumps originally came with. I believe they are an improvement. Difference in fuel economy is not something Propel advertised with the stuff. All the other benefits they do talk up I don't doubt for a second, though.
 

WeLikeBlue

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Apr 21, 2009
Location
Elk Grove, CA
TDI
2004.5 Passat
What I've noticed with Propel this time around is, they seem to be keeping the price down below the cheapie diesel stations, and that's a good thing. When they were selling B20 it typically was 10-15 cents/gal higher, all other things being equal. I had used it a few times but mileage went down so I just went back to regular diesel until I saw HPR and this thread.
I know Propel wasn't using increased fuel economy as a selling point... just sharing my experience with a PD engine with 134,000 miles and no chip or alterations to the stock ECU programming. Just that traffic is getting too unpredictable here to get consistent day-to-day FE comparisons so I could say definitively if the HPR fuel makes any difference.
Matt, curious to see how your Passat runs on this brew... ...Wes
 

sangretdi

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Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Location
WA
TDI
Mk4 Golf
I *think* that the new Bosch seal kits are viton and should have less of a problem. When I had mine rebuilt by DFIS in Portland, that's what they said at least. All good so far with your IP, sangretdi?
.

yup, so far so good!

the seal kit is advertised as all viton. however, if memory serves, Matt told me that the front seal is not viton but the others are.
 

DoubleReflex

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May 31, 2003
Location
California, USA
TDI
jetta,02&03, reflex silver (both autos)
I e-mailed them my experience, no response as of yet.
I received an E-mail several days ago from Propel, but I was out of town and did not respond until today. I was able to call them and speak with one of their representatives. We had a very long phone conversation, and it seems that they would like to get to the bottom of my situation as much as I do. Tomorrow, I will be resealing my injector pump. I will send them my all of my injector seals so that they can have them analyzed. Hopefully, we can come to a conclusion of what caused the failure.

Propel has had a positive attitude toward my situation, and was happy to talk to me about their fuels.

I will update as I have any new information. Hopefully my reseal goes without a hitch.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
Good to hear about Propel's response. I'm assuming since you only have 81k miles, it is the original IP and you have never resealed or rebuilt it? Have you ever run anything over B20 from Propel?

Who will be resealing the IP for you?

I received an E-mail several days ago from Propel, but I was out of town and did not respond until today. I was able to call them and speak with one of their representatives. We had a very long phone conversation, and it seems that they would like to get to the bottom of my situation as much as I do. Tomorrow, I will be resealing my injector pump. I will send them my all of my injector seals so that they can have them analyzed. Hopefully, we can come to a conclusion of what caused the failure.

Propel has had a positive attitude toward my situation, and was happy to talk to me about their fuels.

I will update as I have any new information. Hopefully my reseal goes without a hitch.
 

DoubleReflex

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Location
California, USA
TDI
jetta,02&03, reflex silver (both autos)
Good to hear about Propel's response. I'm assuming since you only have 81k miles, it is the original IP and you have never resealed or rebuilt it? Have you ever run anything over B20 from Propel?

Who will be resealing the IP for you?
It was the original pump, never resealed or rebuilt. I just ordered the rebuild kit and the Viton head seals and did the reseal myself. I have about 50 miles on it and no signs of continued leak.

Propel does not offer any fuel over B20 in my area. I pretty much ran B5 since propel first started offering it. They replaced the B5 with B20 sometime in 2012, and I have been running that since the switch. On occasion, I would fill up with D2, but propel was my go-to station.
 

toddman

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May 15, 2014
Location
Citrus Heights, CA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6SP 2DR
I filled up with a tank of HPR in my MK6 Golf TDI last night. I had maybe two gallons of D2 in the tank. Right off the bat, I noticed an increase in power. Much more responsive off the line, and more 'passing power' on the freeway. I am 55 miles into this tank, so I do not have any FE numbers to report yet. I was most pleased with the price of $2.79/gal, and no extra fees for using my debit/credit card. The cheapest D2 in the vicinity was $2.99/gal.
 

jerryfreak

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Location
Nor Cal
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02 Jetta GLS sedan @295K, 99 Jetta sedan 275k,. 2015 tdi sedan, 105k
SFH, thanks for the clarification. I was under the assumption that the general category of BD lumped all waste oil conversion processes (not untreated waste or virgin oil) under that label. Seems fair to differentiate between them. Especially since this particular product is a drop-in replacement for petro-diesel.

Still wondering about the ability of this product to be manufactured in any respectable quantities. It sounds like the fuel we are all waiting for, but it has to be more available than one particular neighborhood.
they are manufacturing it in massive quantities - in singapore. def doesnt have the local aspect of biodiesel. almost all of the biodiesel in california comes from recycled cooking oil from the west coast.

renewable diesel has about twice the carbon footprint of biodiesel made from cooking oil

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/121409lcfs_lutables.pdf
 

jerryfreak

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Nor Cal
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02 Jetta GLS sedan @295K, 99 Jetta sedan 275k,. 2015 tdi sedan, 105k
Just filled up with HPR near Elk Grove earlier today while doing some Pick-n-Pull parts shopping.

Definitely has a small increase in power/response. Does absolutely smoke less. I've got oversized injectors on loan in my B4 sedan at the moment and they do smoke no matter what. The difference is noticeable. I've only got 80 miles on the tank so far. No telling what the difference in Fuel economy will be until I've run the complete tank through. Mileage up until this point hasn't been great lately, though. Usually stuck in traffic, hauling a lot more weight than the average driver both in terms of heavy tools and hauling people, often times at the same time.

I used to run B20 regularly in my old Mk3 about 10 years ago. But since I did go on long trips back then, I would have to switch between regular diesel (most states were just transitioning to ULSD at the time) and B20 at my usual haunts in Michigan. The pump inevitably started leaking.

In the meantime as someone who wrenches a lot of TDIs, I have noticed a number of common issues on biodiesel. The way the seals swell on biodiesel is very uneven. And in fact they swell too much, in my opinion. In California, most of our biodiesel uses waste vegetable oil as a basestock. I've definitely seen a number of cars run regularly on the stuff have some nasty varnish-like build up inside the fuel system.

I purchased a 2005 Passat wagon a couple years ago for cheap, only had 80k miles on it, because the owner ran it on B100 almost exclusively. I have a stack of receipts totalling the amount of around $15,000 in repairs, many of which were to address a "vibration" issue from the engine. Injectors were replaced, balance shaft module changed to the gear driven unit, new cam and followers, new OEM axles, engine mounts, transmission, new injectors, new injector harness.

The real problem? The injectors (again). The openings for fuel inlet on the PD injectors are quite small and clog up fairly easily on sub-par fuel. To make matters worse, PDs basically cook the fuel before it even gets to injectors. Conventional biodiesel could often times break down before getting to the injectors in these engines. I replaced the injectors again in the car and it took care of the issue. While I was there, there was definitely a notable brown varnish in the passageways in the head that feed the injectors.

I've seen too many issues and oddities happen from running biodiesel, especially California biodiesel. The stuff I had in the Mid West was made from virgin soybean oil, that stuff was decidedly better.

Either way, my experimentation with that particular form of renewable diesel ended. Once I resealed my first injection pump on my own TDI back in 2006, I decided to keep things simple for my daily driver and reduce the amount of issues, I would keep running it on regular diesel from then on.

I've told many customers that I personally like the concept behind biodiesel, but the product itself tends to be sub-par. This new HPR stuff, on the other hand, has my attention. The end product seems a lot like the "synthetic" diesels out there that likely utilize the Fischer-Tropsch process of turning gas to liquid. The gas can be anything from natural gas to a gassified biomass. Very high quality, clean and super high cetane. And also much closer to the type of fuel manufacturers designed their engines for in the first place. Conventional biodiesel, not so much...

So, for those of you with issues having leaking pumps, that's the same issue you'd have switching to ULSD from bio. This confirms to me that chemically, HPR is more similar to conventional diesel. This is something I personally would prefer, as the seal swelling I've seen from re-sealing a number of biodiesel running injection pumps, is not natural. The chemical reactions caused by conventional biodiesel is not doing your fuel system internals any favors. And again, ULSD is what manufacturers designed the engines for in the first place. You want a renewable fuel that's going to give you fewer issues than biodiesel will and also allow you to seamlessly switch to ULSD when necessary? Here it is. HPR.

No washing down of cylinder walls causing fuel dilution of engine oil. No unnatural over-swelling of seals. No coking injector nozzles, no coking injector inlets on PDs or varnish. No issues with soot and ash loading in commonrail DPFs. In fact, from the lower amount of smoke I've seen out of the back of my B4 with oversized injectors, there should be less regens necessary on a DPF-equipped commonrail due to the smaller amount of soot created in the first place.

This is the type of renewable I personally have been waiting for.
Matt I remember when you did the timing belt on my new (to me) PD (04 white wagon at the richmond GTG late 2013), that you and Dee warned us about high blends of biodiesel in the PD due to the high fuel system temps.

Since then weve put about 20K miles on the engine using mostly B99 (as low as B50 in winter). it is our own ASTM-spec fuel

a few things that jump out at me on your observations then and now:

- You are correct when you say all biodiesel is not created equal. But i wouldnt say it is divided by soy oil vs used cooking oil bio. both can be manufactured to ASTM spec. both can also be poorly manufactured and off-spec or near-spec. An example: when the other biodiesel companies went out of business and we took over their delivery customers we saw widespread cases of off-spec fuel. people with storage totes that after repeated fillings had 4" of soapy glycerin residue in the bottom. I definitely wouldnt say that the last 10 years of northern california biodiesel are representative of properly made astm-spec fuel from any feedstock

-you say you note a difference between recycled oil biodiesel and midwest soybean oil biodiesel. Technically speaking, if both of these were manufactured to ASTM spec, they would perform nearly identically in an engine (the used cooking oil bio might have lower NOx in some cases), apart from that, color & cloud point would be the major differences (again these do not affect engine operability). Again it comes down to properly manufactured fuel with low free and total glycerin, water, ash, acidity, and alkali metals. There definitely has been a fair amount of off-spec fuel around in the B99 realm. as for homebrewed fuel, well lets jsut say its almost never tested and "looks good" =/= "is good"

-as far as heat stability of biodiesel im not sure how hot the PD system gets but generally when it comes to biodiesel atomization, the hotter the better in regard to getting its viscosity closer to petro diesel. in the manufacturing process biodiesel is regularly taken as high as 180-200F for hours on end to properly dry it. And keep in mind biodiesel has a much higher boiling point than petro diesel (hence the root of the accumulation in engine oil problem). pure methyl ester (or even ASTM spec bio which has up to 0.2% of unreacted mono, di, and triglycerides) is pretty clean and doesnt leave residue or separate when heated. I would expect any varnish would only result from breakdown of free glycerin or high triglycerides in off-spec/near-spec fuel

-as for the long term emissions effects of HPR vs high blends of bio, time will tell. the one reason bio burns so much cleaner than petro is because the carbon chain has massive amounts of oxygen on them relative to conventional distillate fuels. I'm unsure how oxygenated the HPR is. it does come from the same animal/vegetable feedstocks *but* it is hydrocracked so i do not know what that does to the carbon chain portion of the fuel. the fact that chemically HPR passes the D975 spec for distillate fuel tells me its more similar to petro diesel emissions wise.

in any case to summarize, this should be a high quality consistent fuel for the same reasons you liked the midwest soy - larger production volume = more consistent quality, and usually much more stringent QC.

I look forward to seeing what my injectors look like after another 70k+ of pure bio in our PD. i guess we will find out next timing belt (4+ years from now!).

But yes renewable diesel is a very interesting beast. i wish it was manufactured domestically. From my understanding, youre not getting into manufacturing this at a scale of anything less than 100 million gallons due to the tech involved. so until we get to the next generation of manufacturing, it will never have the portable/local aspect of biodiesel, which does have value for a lot of people.
 
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SFHGolfTDI

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Location
Ventura, CA
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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
Thanks for the helpful input, jerryfreak. I've been a longtime fan of locally produced B100 using waste oil; I'm concerned new CA regulations are going to kill that market. Also, the fact that this stuff can be run in all diesel engines is a definite win for those who can't (or won't) run high blends of biodiesel.

On the way back from a Tahoe trip this weekend I finally was able to get about 11+ gallons of HPR in the tank. My observations echo others as far as performance, etc. I also ran into another tdiclub member at the pump who has gained 4-5 mpg since running HPR.

My own anecdotal experience on the remaining 370 mile drive home is how slow my fuel gauge was moving even with ac on and 70-80 speeds and some toddler stops. I can't wait to see how this tank turns out. I have never seen this many miles at the 3/4 mark on my fuel gauge:



There are definitely several new factors at play, not just the fuel. I recently got a tune and a new MAF (mine was fine, but maybe not optimal). On the way up from sea level to ~8k and back down to Elk Grove Propel station (592 miles), I got 50.1 mpg (which is one of my best tanks ever) on B20. This was with AC on, dog, wife, baby, luggage and altitude. I was very impressed. But the HPR tank so far, judging by what my fuel gauge is showing, is on track to beat this by a decent margin (at least under the same highway driving conditions).
 
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RIP TDI

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Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
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'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
When Propel was selling Soladiesel B20, the Redwood City station never got it.
I'll find out this weekend if RC actually has HPR.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
When Propel was selling Soladiesel B20, the Redwood City station never got it.
I'll find out this weekend if RC actually has HPR.
Soladiesel was a limited time offering. My understanding is that HPR is here to stay for the foreseeable future (including hints at expansion to the rest of their current B20 locations). If its listed on their DieselHPR website, I'd be pretty confident it is available in Redwood City.
 

McFuzz

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CA Bay Area
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A6 TDI
Greetings all!

I have a '14 Audi A6 TDI and in its user manual, in big bold letters it says that B20 is VERBOTEN!!!


Has anyone tried HPR on their 3.0L TDI's yet? Does it have the same properties as B20 that would cause it to be incompatible with Audi TDI's?

Thanks!
 

SFHGolfTDI

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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
Greetings all!

I have a '14 Audi A6 TDI and in its user manual, in big bold letters it says that B20 is VERBOTEN!!!


Has anyone tried HPR on their 3.0L TDI's yet? Does it have the same properties as B20 that would cause it to be incompatible with Audi TDI's?

Thanks!
You absolutely will have no issues with HPR. It is under the same ASTM spec as ULSD petroleum diesel. It does not have any of the issues of biodiesel and is compatible with ALL diesel engines. In fact, it is a chemically superior fuel to both petro diesel and biodiesel. Read up on this thread and the dieselhpr.com website for more info.
 

McFuzz

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CA Bay Area
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A6 TDI
Woohooo! I work not too far from the Fremont Propel Station in the Bay Area; will have to give it a shot!
 

DoubleReflex

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jetta,02&03, reflex silver (both autos)
Well, in looks like my injector pump reseal is a success. I put on a leisurely 3000 miles this week, and no leak in sight. Now that I have Viton seals, I'm not worried about using the HPR.

I started my trip with a full tank of 100% HPR as it was my second tank in a row. The first tank was when my injector pump seals failed, and the mileage was abysmal since a lot of it ended up on the ground.

The first tank of HPR only netted me 41.2 MPG.
Since HPR was not available on the rest of my trip, I used D2 from well frequented truck stops. My mileage was 43.4, 46.3, 43.2. I have not calculated my last tank yet. All tanks were driven the same way, on cruise control, at the same speed.

Since my car is an automatic, I usually average 42-44 on a highway run like this. The HPR did not impress me in the mileage department. I was super impressed how clean my exhaust looked however. I am used to running B20 which burns fairly clean. I forgot how smokey my exhaust can get with D2 which I used for most of the trip. I also like how the HPR does not foam up when filling the tank. It saves a lot of time when filling to the brim.

On a side note, I sent Propel all of my old injector pump seals so that they could have them analyzed, and possibly figure out what caused the seal failure. I will update if I get any further information.
 

TDI-ed

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Golf and Audi A4 AWD TDI
Has anyone been successful in getting lubricity info on HPR? I called them a month ago and they never called me back with any info, despite repeated follow-up calls. This is a concern for me, as there have been reports of low lubricity and several reports that this is one of HPR downsides. Maybe it could explain IP leakage?
 

Geomorph

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Sacramento, CA
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2005 Golf and 2002 NB
Has anyone been successful in getting lubricity info on HPR? I called them a month ago and they never called me back with any info, despite repeated follow-up calls. This is a concern for me, as there have been reports of low lubricity and several reports that this is one of HPR downsides. Maybe it could explain IP leakage?
Propel's specification sheet shows that it is additized to meet the diesel specification for lubricity:

http://dieselhpr.com/assets/media/DieselHPR_Fuel_Specification.pdf

I think the IP seal leaks have more to do with the low aromatics (similar problem with ultra low sulfur diesel), when switching from higher concentration biodiesel.
 

DoubleReflex

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jetta,02&03, reflex silver (both autos)
Propel's specification sheet shows that it is additized to meet the diesel specification for lubricity:

http://dieselhpr.com/assets/media/DieselHPR_Fuel_Specification.pdf

I think the IP seal leaks have more to do with the low aromatics (similar problem with ultra low sulfur diesel), when switching from higher concentration biodiesel.
I think you are right, however you and others keep saying "higher concentration biodiesel". Mine started leaking after the switch, but I previously, and regularly, used B20. I don't consider that "higher concentration" at all.
 

Geomorph

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I think you are right, however you and others keep saying "higher concentration biodiesel". Mine started leaking after the switch, but I previously, and regularly, used B20. I don't consider that "higher concentration" at all.
I agree that B20 isn't that high of a concentration. My pump seals are not leaking after switching from B20 to diesel HPR (so far anyway). But I have seen at least one other example in the forum where a driver only used up to B20 and then switched to ULSD and started leaking. In those cases, I think it also depends on the age of the seals, whether the pump had been rebuilt before, whether it also went through the transition from low sulfur to ultra low sulfur diesel and who knows what else.

My pump leaked when the fuel changed from low sulfur to ultra low sulfur. It had not been run on any level of biodiesel before that. So the seals that are in my car now have not seen the old low sulfur diesel and don't have as much age as the car. Maybe that is part of why they seem to be doing fine with the recent transition of the local Propel pumps from B20 to HPR?
 
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SFHGolfTDI

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2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
I agree that B20 isn't that high of a concentration. My pump seals are not leaking after switching from B20 to diesel HPR (so far anyway). But I have seen at least one other example in the forum where a driver only used up to B20 and then switched to ULSD and started leaking. In those cases, I think it also depends on the age of the seals, whether the pump had been rebuilt before, whether it also went through the transition from low sulfur to ultra low sulfur diesel and who knows what else.

My pump leaked when the fuel changed from low sulfur to ultra low sulfur. It had not been run on any level of biodiesel before that. So the seals that are in my car now have not seen the old low sulfur diesel and don't have as much age as the car. Maybe that is part of why they seem to be doing fine with the recent transition of the local Propel pumps from B20 to HPR?
I think this is a good summary of why some people get leaks and others don't. It is often just a matter of how old your seals are and how many transitions they've been through.
 

Lucias_D

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Mar 16, 2015
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Sacramento, CA
TDI
2002 Golf TDI
several hundred miles into HPR

mods please let us know if these threads should be combined but I copied this from the other HPR thread

Well I have some first impressions. I've gone through approximately 300 miles of this fuel so far and I must say I'm impressed. My injection pump has been making a lot of noise for some time now and it has quieted down significantly. Don't get me wrong, it's still loud but there is a perceivable difference before fill up and now. All of the claims of this fuel have been realized by me so far. Pretty interested to see what fuel economy on this tank will be as my numbers right now look slightly lower than normal, but time will tell. My normal fuel is Chevron #2 for reference

In summary:
Quieter operation
Smoother idle
Better cold starts
Less smoke :D
Fuel smell much less noticeable

Additionally, I know people have been looking for more info on this fuel and I found some more resources. I found that Neste Oil does the processing for this fuel and their website has a lot more info as well
Neste Oil NEXBTL. The brochure is also interesting and can be found here.
There is a footnote that states" b) Lubricity of 100% NEXBTL diesel is approximately 650μm, analysis report is given with each delivery. The lubricity of the final fuel blend has to be checked and corrected with lubricity additive if need be." The station I filled @ (Broadway, Sacramento) says it has an additive to lower this. I don't know if this was done before or after shipment but I suppose I can inquire about it the next time I'm over there.

Cheers
 
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McFuzz

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CA Bay Area
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A6 TDI
In case anyone cares - I pinged Audi of America in regards to their official stance on using HPR fuel in VAG 3.0L TDI motors... they gave me their seal of approval:

Hello McFuzz,

Thank you for your patience during my research regarding your fuel question, which confirmed the diesel HRP fuel would be alright to use in your 2014 Audi A6, as the fuel meets the following two criteria specified in your Owner's Manual:

1) it meets the ASTM D975

2) it does not contain more than 5% biodiesel


You are a valued member of our Audi family, Gene. I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to respond to your question. Please contact me if I may assist you in the future. You may send a reply to this message or call me through the Audi Customer Experience Center at +1 877 615 2834. Should you call at a time when I’m not available, press zero, and any of my colleagues will be happy to assist you. We are here for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

You may receive an e-mail survey within the next few days for my supervisor’s evaluation of my performance in responding to you. It would be helpful to me if you could take a few minutes to share your comments rating my interaction with you.

Best regards,




Maureen P.
Audi Customer Advocate



However - I still can't find a definitive answer about injector seal integrity when swapping from regular diesel to HPR - is there anything to worry about in regards to that? Or in regards to any other components? I still remember the horror stories Mazdaspeed3 guys have shared when going from 91 to E85... entire fuel systems getting corroded ::shudder::

Oh and one more question - any harm in bouncing between regular #2 Diesel to HPR? I am fairly certain that at times, I would simply have nothing else but #2 (Chevron, Shell, etc) to use...
 
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Tureq

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Hello! I'm from Finland where Neste sells same stuff blended with normal diesel. Rate is about 20% renewable diesel/80% normal diesel. So for that reason I think that it is safe to use normal diesel and Hpr mixed.

Other companies offers normal diesels with small biomix usually 3-7%. Here's a another company which is starting to produce same kind of diesel, but that factory is in Finland and the biomass needed comes from Finnish wood. Some patent issues with neste, but those have been solved now.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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TDI
2002 Jolf GLS TDI - Reflex Silver (purchased 2011) | Previously: 2001 Golf GL TDI - Indigo Blue (sold 2005)
In case anyone cares - I pinged Audi of America in regards to their official stance on using HPR fuel in VAG 3.0L TDI motors... they gave me their seal of approval:






However - I still can't find a definitive answer about injector seal integrity when swapping from regular diesel to HPR - is there anything to worry about in regards to that? Or in regards to any other components? I still remember the horror stories Mazdaspeed3 guys have shared when going from 91 to E85... entire fuel systems getting corroded ::shudder::

Oh and one more question - any harm in bouncing between regular #2 Diesel to HPR? I am fairly certain that at times, I would simply have nothing else but #2 (Chevron, Shell, etc) to use...

You are worrying too much about a superior fuel in a practically new car. Audi already gave you the seal of approval. You will have no problem going between the two fuels as they both meet/exceed the same spec. Problems that people report are on older vehicles that have seen too many different fuels in their systems.

If you want to be extra cautious use an extra lubricity additive and get this stuff in your tank.
 
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Lucias_D

Active member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Location
Sacramento, CA
TDI
2002 Golf TDI
I wouldn't worry about swelling

Seeing as how HPR meets the ATSM d975 spec and doesn't contain Bio you're in the clear. There site says it's compatible and Audi said it was good to go.

The concern for swelling is when dealing with bio-diesel as the chemical composition is slightly different than the fossil variant and can cause inflammation/changes of seals (nitrile, poly, etc.). Additionally, this 'usually' only happens in higher blends or straight bio.

I wouldn't sweat it. Plus, if something did happen and was proven to be related to the fuel I would just use that e-mail as confirmation that you were in the 'right'
 
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