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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old April 7th, 2017, 11:20   #136
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Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Thank you sir! By looking at the most holistic study we have so far in the USA the gasoline and gasoline-hybrids ICE vehicles are still environmentally more costly than modern diesel passenger cars (legally sold in the US). What will close the gap between them then?
Just adding that in the chart above, a cheating commonrail TDI would probably fall under "Diesel no SCR," not regular "Diesel."

I'd also like to see PHEVs get broken down further by energy type (California mix, NGCC and solar). Just like diesel drivers have a choice of fuel (regular diesel, biodiesel, renewable diesel), EV and PHEV drivers have energy choices.
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Old April 7th, 2017, 12:59   #137
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Originally Posted by VeeDubTDI View Post
Just adding that in the chart above, a cheating commonrail TDI would probably fall under "Diesel no SCR," not regular "Diesel."

I'd also like to see PHEVs get broken down further by energy type (California mix, NGCC and solar). Just like diesel drivers have a choice of fuel (regular diesel, biodiesel, renewable diesel), EV and PHEV drivers have energy choices.
A quick calculation using GREET, I get the following:

1.63 cents/VMT (NGCC)
1.66 cents/VMT (California)
1.63 cents/VMT (Solar Charging)

That's using the default settings in GREET except for using emissions generated in well drilling/infrastructure and electric generation infrastructure, including emission generated in manufacturing solar panels.

That's also using the European damage factors, which provide separate damage factors for rural vs urban emissions.
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Old April 7th, 2017, 13:04   #138
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You're on top of things, Loren. I'm always impressed.

So that puts a PHEV right in line with a full EV?
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Old April 7th, 2017, 13:28   #139
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You're on top of things, Loren. I'm always impressed.

So that puts a PHEV right in line with a full EV?
Thanks Lawson.

A better graphic with which to compare is this (since it also used the European damage factors rather than EPA's):


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Old April 7th, 2017, 14:15   #140
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To what can we attribute the significant difference in EV damage costs between the two charts? Are the Euro vs EPA numbers that different?
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Old April 7th, 2017, 14:28   #141
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The Euro damages are separated into "urban" and "rural" damage factors. Most electric generation emissions are rural, and the damage factors are generally much lower for rural emissions than urban emissions (GREET calculates urban emissions and total emissions for each vehicle technology and fuel pathway).

The EPA damage factors are just an overall average, although direct PM and NOx emissions from the vehicles themselves are given a higher damage factor than upstream PM and NOx emissions.
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Old April 7th, 2017, 16:17   #142
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Just adding that in the chart above, a cheating commonrail TDI would probably fall under "Diesel no SCR," not regular "Diesel."
Well maybe to a certain degree for NOx but the DPF is still there so PM would be better than a corresponding gasoline vehicle, correct?
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Old April 8th, 2017, 15:54   #143
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Well maybe to a certain degree for NOx but the DPF is still there so PM would be better than a corresponding gasoline vehicle, correct?
That depends on whether or not DPFs are linked with SCR in the GREET models.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 06:43   #144
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The default PM2.5 values in GREET are 0.010 grams/mile (diesel) and 0.009 grams/mile (gasoline). That includes 0.005 grams/mile PM2.5 from brake and tire wear for each.

In reality, PM2.5 from diesel with fully-functional DPF would be about an order-of-magnitude lower than gasoline. I suspect GREET takes into account the small percentage of tampered or otherwise disabled DPFs.

Last edited by wxman; April 9th, 2017 at 06:49.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 12:41   #145
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If this is correct, and he follows thru, it may be that a large number of regulations, including environmental regulations which are applicable to diesel emissions, will be rescinded by executive fiat, and perhaps, with Congressional legislation:

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/23/trump...aybe-more.html

I don't believe Trump has the power to shut down the EPA and change laws without a massive fight on his hands. It will be delayed for years until they can get rid of him through the impeachment process. Trump is taking us back to the 1970's and most don't like it, me included.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 13:43   #146
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Most? My fat hairy white butt! I'm elated with what he is doing (as are pretty much everyone I know) . . . and the EPA was created by Nixon via EO, and despite it's overreach, can die by reversal of same . . .

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Old April 12th, 2017, 14:30   #147
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Yes most, as in most people did not vote for the individual.
Your understanding of how the EPA can/can't be modified is also flawed.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 18:57   #148
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45.9% of the country voted for said person who happened to be swing states.

Rural America has a voice too and it spoke.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 21:06   #149
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Thank you for a definition of a minority.
Oh yes, and don't forget that that is only the votes cast.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 21:28   #150
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Most? My fat hairy white butt! I'm elated with what he is doing (as are pretty much everyone I know) . . . and the EPA was created by Nixon via EO, and despite it's overreach, can die by reversal of same . . .
No matter who says that in bold, I just gotta laugh because birds of a feather flock together. Meaning that we usually surround ourselves with people that think like us, so it's not indicative of everyone based on what those near us think.

Just sayin'...
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