5th gear issue

Alright guys got another one for ya on my 2000 alh mk4 285k on the clock...any ideas would be great and I’m gonna be tweaking with this thing more after work. Got the car running and driving. Just took it on the highway to work today and 5th gear is giving me trouble. I put my foot in the clutch and out the car in 5th... it feels like it’s going in because the stick stays where it’s supposed to. it’s not like it pops right out. Some times I’ll get a little grind when i let my foot off the clutch or... i will leave it in fifth and the car will buck like it’s not completely engaged and putting power to the ground or the clutch is slipping. I just take it out and put it into fourth because i don’t wanna break anything. No other issues in any other gear i really don’t think it’s clutch slippage it just feels like the gear isn’t completely engaging. Thoughts ???

And also how do these transmissions circulate oil ? They have a pump built in or is it just a gear bath in the sump ?? I could see low oil causing an issue if it needs to build pressure. I’m going to start with the easy stuff like adjustments and oil check change. Just trying to rule out more expensive things like servos and whole gear boxes ����

Don't know if adjusting the shifter cables could help or not, but it probably wouldn't hurt to try, it's pretty easy to do. There are videos and other tutorials around. Someone else may know more.

Regarding fluid, it's just a sump and the gears pick it up and slush it around. Now 5th is special, because it's on the side of the box and has kind of a wall separating it from the sump. It the fluid level gets just a little low, it can starve 5th of fluid very quickly because the passage for fluid is up relatively high. There is a fix kit from VW for this, some people drill a hole in the bottom to allow more fluid to get to 5th. This causes a lot of issues people have with 5th, it tends to be the first to go when fluid gets slightly low even.

If the easy things don't help, it's pretty easy to pull the 5th gear side cover and inspect stuff in there. Just be prepared for more fluid to come out as the 5th gear compartment does not drain with the rest of the box.

It may help to check out the 5th gear swap tutorials so you get a good understanding of this and how things in there should look.

Good luck! I had an issue where the bolts holding the two gears for 5th backed out, which shredded the gears and the engaging ring as well as the cover, you basically end up replacing all parts involved in 5th gear, pretty spendy ordeal. Hopefully your's is a cheap fix!

Take the side cover off the trans and take a look. I suspect you'll find the cause of your problem.

5th gear sets in stock and higher ratios are available in kit form in the aftermarket with everything you need.

You do not even have to remove the transmission.

oilhammer said:

Take the side cover off the trans and take a look. I suspect you'll find the cause of your problem.
5th gear sets in stock and higher ratios are available in kit form in the aftermarket with everything you need.
You do not even have to remove the transmission.

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I've seen the 5th gear gear shift selector fork under that cover worn from probably low gear oil levels. You may not need to replace the 5th gear set. Just replace the worn parts that move the gears together.

Also the splines on the shaft driving the fifth gear and the splines on the fifth gear itself can become so worn that they strip.

I haven’t gotten a chance to tear into it yet but I’m assuming the gear or spline like you said is stripped out. It goes into the gear but just makes a god awful sound and doesn’t transfer power lol. Just sounds like something stripping it’s self out. Is it hard and or expensive to replace all of 5th gear ? Is it something i can pull off a Parts car ?

UTIBRITDI said:

I haven’t gotten a chance to tear into it yet but I’m assuming the gear or spline like you said is stripped out. It goes into the gear but just makes a god awful sound and doesn’t transfer power lol. Just sounds like something stripping it’s self out. Is it hard and or expensive to replace all of 5th gear ? Is it something i can pull off a Parts car ?

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It's not hard to replace the gear. As long as you get it from a TDI 5speed you should be good. Look in the DIY thread sticky on the TDI 101 forum for a how to.

It would be good for your future endeavors of TDI-ing to learn to search this site. I use google to do it instead of the built in search. The DIY thread is a culmination of the blood, sweat, and tears of so many TDIers who have been generous to put a document together. Pay it forward if you ever can.

UTIBRITDI said:

I haven’t gotten a chance to tear into it yet but I’m assuming the gear or spline like you said is stripped out. It goes into the gear but just makes a god awful sound and doesn’t transfer power lol. Just sounds like something stripping it’s self out. Is it hard and or expensive to replace all of 5th gear ? Is it something i can pull off a Parts car ?

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The 5th gear is relativly easy to change but if the splines are shot on the shaft too its means tearing down the tranny to do it right.
Some here have just replaced the gear and were ok for a while and some even used locktite and a new gear to remove any play.

Or try and find a relativly low milage used tdi tranny and just replace the whole tranny.
First I'd pull the end cover off and see what the problem really is.

Yea so upon further investigation on what my trans is doing I’m coming to the conclusion that 5th gear is just gone. So I’m going to atempt to rebuild... I’m gonna need a low profile gear puller... any idea on where to get that ? And what’s the best site for me to buy everything I’m gong to need to get this done. Keep in mind i haven’t pulled it apart yet to see if the shaft it’s self is gone. I just know that 5th is stripped out completly. I will search the DIY threads as well

UTIBRITDI said:

Yea so upon further investigation on what my trans is doing I’m coming to the conclusion that 5th gear is just gone. So I’m going to atempt to rebuild... I’m gonna need a low profile gear puller... any idea on where to get that ? And what’s the best site for me to buy everything I’m gong to need to get this done. Keep in mind i haven’t pulled it apart yet to see if the shaft it’s self is gone. I just know that 5th is stripped out completly. I will search the DIY threads as well

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Well, you actually do not really know anything yet. Take 15 minutes (maybe 10, if you're quick), and get the side cover off and take a peak. You may find the driven shaft has stripped splines (rare, but possible), in which case the transmission will have to come out and come apart, or just replaced altogether.

It could also be the little selector fork pegs are worn down. You may find the gears themselves are bad. Or any combination of those.

Just get it apart and look first.

oilhammer said:

Well, you actually do not really know anything yet. Take 15 minutes (maybe 10, if you're quick), and get the side cover off and take a peak. You may find the driven shaft has stripped splines (rare, but possible), in which case the transmission will have to come out and come apart, or just replaced altogether.
It could also be the little selector fork pegs are worn down. You may find the gears themselves are bad. Or any combination of those.
Just get it apart and look first.

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Totally on point.

This is where incomplete diagnostics leads to needless parts purchases.

Yep.

There is an issue with the 5th gear and lubrication if the oil level is allowed to be low in these gearboxes. MOST of the time when the gear actually strips on the splines it's the gear (the shaft is a harder material), BUT there's a problem with simple replacement in that what causes it to fail in the first place is the gear "fretting" on the shaft -- that is, it moves, and as it moves it wears and ultimately strips. Don't correct that and it'll strip again.

Right now though you don't know what's going on, so take the cover off and look FIRST before you start buying parts.

I agree the reason is the gearbox was allowed to run low. Been this way since the 1970s when the first 5 speed 020 came out.

People never check the fluid level, and they run dry. Does not take much. That little seepage underneath over time equates to a low enough condition to cause this.

Otherwise, I don't think it would ever happen.

True, and it's rather common for there to be very minor seepage around the output shaft seals. That by itself isn't a huge problem BUT if you never check the gearbox oil level and it gets low (many people don't consider "change intervals" to be a thing on manual gearboxes) they WILL blow up. Nothing with moving parts in it does well without proper lubrication.

I’m gonna pull the cover after work. Oil was disgusting when i went to check level last night. After i find out wats wrong I’ll start worry about Parts and tools. I’ll get back to ya tonight

you can drill a few holes to make sure 5th always stays oiled. Not sure why VW designed it like this. Here is a thread that shows how

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291543

I purchased a multi-pack of various sized two and three jaw pullers from Harbor Freight. I took one of the two-jaw pullers and customized it to pull the gears. I used a bench grinder to make the modifications to the jaws.

It is possible to "chip" the edge off two or three teeth on the gear if it is stubborn. So, be careful when pulling the gear........... and, on a positive note, they may just slip right off.

This is what I found when I pulled the cover off my 2000 Jetta at about 291k miles.
With no warning, it jumped out of 5th gear as I was driving along about 50 mph. From that point on, it would not stay in 5th gear. I used a 5th gear out of a gasser for about 5 months (the ratio is about mid-way between 4th and 5th).



Worn out hub and slider .... (go to my photo gallery for more pics)

Is that section right there on the very end the whole fifth gear ?? Just replaced that and fifth gear was back in action ?? I’m assuming this can all be ordered in a 5th gear rebuild kit ?? And i havnt had time after work to play with this thing yet. Cruisen on the highway at 75 at 3k 3100 rpm isn’t gonna hurt nothin is it ?? Seems alright doesn’t seem to be screaming just could use that upshift Andy how do i get to that gallery ??

Yep! That's the 5th gear assembly......... real easy to remove the metal cover. And, oil will spill out!

Photos of my tranny:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=5294

The 2002 ALH engine in my Vanagon is spinning at about 3075 RPMs at 70 MPH. I've put over 80k miles on it and about 25k miles were pulling a popup camper.

So, your engine will be just fine!

Below is a pic of the Jetta Cluster in the Vanagon... The speedo is correct based on GPS using a Dakota Digital Interface to adjust with GPS as the reference. On an almost 11k mile road trip, the odometer and GPS were only 17 miles different. Also, according to Scan Gauge, the RPMs are correct too.



Here's a pic of the rig ... total miles on the engine is just under 210k