Amsoil In this Thread only

TooSlick · Jul 14, 2010

3L3,

Last time I checked, the European oil and the 5w-40, Premium Diesel Oil were the same price. From the virgin oil analysis that Bob posted for the DEO, it looks quite a bit more robust than the Amsoil Euro. oil. Amsoil is also backing DEO for 3X the service interval of a petroleum diesel oil, not to exceed 50,000 miles/600 hrs or one year. (Many OTR trucks now go 15k-25k miles between changes on regular 15w-40 diesel oils, which is where the 50k comes from.)

Most off-road equipment still runs the dirtier, 500 ppm sulphur fuel. So 600 hrs would be a very challenging service interval for that application.

TS

Trawlercap · Aug 10, 2010

Wrong oil?

I have 03' TDI Jetta 121k miles. Never run Amsoil.

I set out to buy the Euro 5w40 online. I ended up getting Premium API

CJ-4 Diesel oil. Not sure where the glitch was (me or them) I think based

on the CJ-4 and Cl4+ I Should be fine with the 03' TDI. Any one?

Sorry if this has already been covered, I have not had the

time to read through the postings here yet. I am pretty new around here,

but trying to catch up fast!

lovemybug · Aug 10, 2010

Trawlercap said:
I have 03' TDI Jetta 121k miles. Never run Amsoil.

I set out to buy the Euro 5w40 online. I ended up getting Premium API

CJ-4 Diesel oil. Not sure where the glitch was (me or them) I think based

on the CJ-4 and Cl4+ I Should be fine with the 03' TDI. Any one?

Sorry if this has already been covered, I have not had the

time to read through the postings here yet. I am pretty new around here,

but trying to catch up fast!

Yes, you'll be just fine with that oil. You've got the same engine that I've got, and I've been using that same oil for close to 100,000 miles.

TooSlick · Aug 10, 2010

Trawlercap,

Either Amsoil product is fine for your '03 application. If anything, the API/CJ-4 or CI-4+ oils (Amsoil still makes several), will hold up even better than VW 505.00 or VW 505.01.

If you're actually up in Alaska and operating in extremely cold weather, I'd also consider the Amsoil Series 3000, 5w-30 diesel oil, which has a borderline pumping temp < -40F/-40C. It will pump even easier than an SAE 5w-40 and provide the best performance & fuel efficiency.

TS

Trawlercap · Aug 11, 2010

Great!

Great! Thanks for the info. I only work in Alaska (Bearing Sea) My Jetta takes me from Oregon to Mexico for the winter. Sounds like I am ready to do an oil change.....

Trawlercap · Aug 14, 2010

I got the oil changed, the Amsoil Diesel oil 5w40 and used a Mann filter. After half a tank of fuel, I was surprised to see the oil is so clean looking. Not black yet like I am used to seeing. More like the color of weak coffee. Also looks like my MPG went up but I will give that some time....

BEN721364 · Aug 14, 2010

I'm an old fashioned guy who believes that motor oil that gets dirty is doing it's job better than oil that doesn't hold contaminants in suspension. I dunno?

Trawlercap said:
I got the oil changed, the Amsoil Diesel oil 5w40 and used a Mann filter. After half a tank of fuel, I was surprised to see the oil is so clean looking. Not black yet like I am used to seeing. More like the color of weak coffee. Also looks like my MPG went up but I will give that some time....

TooSlick · Aug 14, 2010

The ULSD fuel burns cleaner than the old, higher sulfur fuels. If you haven't had a diesel in a while, you might notice a change. The API/CJ-4 oils like this one are loaded with dispersants, so I don't think there's such a thing as the oil not doing it's job.

TS

BEN721364 · Aug 14, 2010

TooSlick said:
The ULSD fuel burns cleaner than the old, higher sulfur fuels. If you haven't had a diesel in a while, you might notice a change. The API/CJ-4 oils like this one are loaded with dispersants, so I don't think there's such a thing as the oil not doing it's job.

TS

I was speaking of engine lubricants in general, including those burning gasoline and diesel fuel(s).

Trawlercap · Aug 14, 2010

I also let the engine drain for a couple hours, as we as cleaned the filter housing out completly. There was a god amount of black oil in the filter housing. I have never done either one of these things.

TooSlick · Aug 15, 2010

If you don't clean the oil out of the filter housing, there's enough, soot laden old oil in the system that the new oil gets dirty right away. In gas engine use, you'll notice that a high end synthetic will run significantly cleaner in the engine. The reason is that it's more resistant to degradation from heat, oxygen & combustion by-products. This does not mean that the oil isn't doing it's job & holding contaminents in suspension.

TS

Joe Gabura · Sep 17, 2010

For my planned oil change, I bought Amsoil 5W40 European Car Formula. Which states on the bottle that it conforms with VW spec 505 01. After reading some of the comments in the forum, I'm not sure if I want to use the oil

BEN721364 · Sep 17, 2010

Joe Gabura said:
For my planned oil change, I bought Amsoil 5W40 European Car Formula. Which states on the bottle that it conforms with VW spec 505 01. After reading some of the comments in the forum, I'm not sure if I want to use the oil

If it meets the VW specs. for the engine in question, it should be OK. However, I have serious doubts that it is worth the price premium.

Bob_Fout · Sep 17, 2010

Joe Gabura said:
For my planned oil change, I bought Amsoil 5W40 European Car Formula. Which states on the bottle that it conforms with VW spec 505 01. After reading some of the comments in the forum, I'm not sure if I want to use the oil

Amsoil Euro Formula has all the benefits and drawbacks of other 505.01 5w40 oils. Amsoil DEO (CJ-4) is probably a better choice than AFL.

BEN721364 · Sep 17, 2010

Yours is an interesting observation. Wanna share your basis?

Bob_Fout said:
Amsoil Euro Formula has all the benefits and drawbacks of other 505.01 5w40 oils. Amsoil DEO (CJ-4) is probably a better choice than AFL.

Bob_Fout · Sep 17, 2010

BEN721364 said:
Yours is an interesting observation. Wanna share your basis?

6 years of UOAs and visual inspections (in aggregate from these forums) with API CI-4+ and CJ-4 oils and 505.01 5w40 and 5w30 oils in BEW and BRM TDIs. It's not that 505.01 5w40 oils are not good, it's just that API CI-4+ and CJ-4 are better, more robust. (just the nature of the specs)

BEN721364 · Sep 17, 2010

Thanks. You may be correct. What does the engine manufacturer recommend? Are you comparing apples and apples or am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time.

Without looking at earlier posts, I thought that I remember your touting a 'brand' as somehow superior?

Bob_Fout said:
6 years of UOAs and visual inspections (in aggregate from these forums) with API CI-4+ and CJ-4 oils and 505.01 5w40 and 5w30 oils in BEW and BRM TDIs. It's not that 505.01 5w40 oils are not good, it's just that API CI-4+ and CJ-4 are better, more robust. (just the nature of the specs)

Bob_Fout · Sep 17, 2010

BEN721364 said:
Thanks. You may be correct. What does the engine manufacturer recommend? Are you comparing apples and apples or am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time.

Without looking at earlier posts, I thought that I remember your touting a 'brand' as somehow superior?

VW recommends 505.01. Since almost every PD is out of warranty, it's moot.

API oils generally exceed several parameters of Euro oils, in terms of additive levels and HTHS.

There are several very good API oils for PDs (and VEs too!)

(All are 5w40)

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck
Delvac 1 ESP
Rotella T / T6
Amsoil DEO
Schaeffers S9000
Redline

TooSlick · Sep 21, 2010

There is more data to support the use of the 5w-40, Amsoil European oil in the PD/VW 505.01 application and it's their official recommendation. However the API/CJ-4, synthetic diesel oils have also shown excellent results in these motors. So you can go either way....

My suggestion would be to compare the two under the same conditions and decide which is subjectively better; supported by oil analysis if you want to be precise about it....

TS

milehighassassin · Sep 22, 2010

I'm now running DEO after running European Formula and then ELF 507 for a while. Personally I think DEO is far superior than both.

TooSlick · Sep 22, 2010

Mile high,

I'm just curious being an engineer if you can quantify the improvement with the DEO. For example has engine "NVH" (noise/vibration/harshness) improved? Has oil consumption gone down and/or fuel efficiency gone up. The sorts of things that can be measured ....

TS

milehighassassin · Sep 23, 2010

Car seems smoother. UOA's are much better. I'll see if I can find one or two to post up.

TooSlick · Sep 24, 2010

Thanks

FXDL · Sep 24, 2010

I hear tell that Amsoil is now using group 3 base stock and are not telling people, so some of their oils are group 3 oils and therefore not all their oils are not group 4 as before. Any truth to this?????

BEN721364 · Sep 24, 2010

I do not understand the cult like allegiance that I seem to be seeing around the Amzoil brand. Is is based on the "theory" that if it costs more, it must be better? Which, if any, engine manufacturers recommend Amzoil products?

TooSlick · Sep 24, 2010

Amsoils less expensive ($2.00/qt less), XL Series oils have been Group III based from the start. However their top tier, extended drain oils are still PAO based. It's tough to make a very long drain oil using group III basestocks, since they require more stabilization from additives. As just one example, Group III oils require the use of Pour Point Depressents to aid low temp pumpability, and these lose effectiveness over time. By contrast, the pour points of PAO basestocks are lower than for the fully formulated oil they're made
from.

TS

BEN721364 · Sep 24, 2010

So it's cult like following is because it costs less? I'm still interested in learning if any engine manufacturers recommend it?

TooSlick said:
Amsoils less expensive ($2.00/qt less), XL Series oils have been Group III based from the start. However their top tier, extended drain oils are still PAO based. It's tough to make a very long drain oil using group III basestocks, since they require more stabilization from additives. As just one example, Group III oils require the use of Pour Point Depressents to aid low temp pumpability, and these lose effectiveness over time. By contrast, the pour points of PAO basestocks are lower than for the fully formulated oil they're made
from.

TS

Bob_Fout · Sep 24, 2010

BEN721364 said:
I do not understand the cult like allegiance that I seem to be seeing around the Redline brand. Is is based on the "theory" that if it costs more, it must be better? Which, if any, engine manufacturers recommend Redline products?

Funny how that works.

Engine manufacturers can recommend an oil (in the case of Cummins and Valvoline, BMW and Castrol etc) but cannot demand it be used. Engine manufacturers demand specs, not brand.

No engine manufacter will recommand a boutique oil like Amsoil, Redline, Schaeffers.

The allure of Amsoil to me stems from supporting a small, US company (same goes for Redline, Schaeffers) that has consistent top-quality oil.

BEN721364 · Sep 24, 2010

There's nothing wrong with that sentiment[...supporting a small, US company...] in my opinion. As a US citizen who holds shares of a couple major US oil companies, I like to support them as well!

As far as "specs" go, does Amzoil indeed meet the specifications of VW, for instance? I have read it's marketing claims but would would be more comfortable if I were able to see proof.

Many engine manufacturers 'recommend' the brand that they use for factory fill, for marketing reasons and/or financial considerations, though as you noted, only insist that the lubricant meets it's specifications, which is their right...

Bob_Fout said:
Funny how that works.

Engine manufacturers can recommend an oil (in the case of Cummins and Valvoline, BMW and Castrol etc) but cannot demand it be used. Engine manufacturers demand specs, not brand.

No engine manufacter will recommand a boutique oil like Amsoil, Redline, Schaeffers.

The allure of Amsoil to me stems from supporting a small, US company (same goes for Redline, Schaeffers) that has consistent top-quality oil.

Bob_Fout · Sep 24, 2010

BEN721364 said:
There's nothing wrong with that sentiment[...supporting a small, US company...] in my opinion. As a US citizen who holds shares of a couple major US oil companies, I like to support them as well!

As far as "specs" go, does Amzoil indeed meet the specifications of VW, for instance? I have read it's marketing claims but would would be more comfortable if I were able to see proof.

Many engine manufacturers 'recommend' the brand that they use for factory fill, for marketing reasons and/or financial considerations, though as you noted, only insist that the lubricant meets it's specifications, which is their right...

What constitutes proof though? A letter from VW, or the word of the lubricant manufacturer?

Amsoil contends their Euro 5w40 oil meets some VW specs. Redline contends their 0w40 and 5w40 meet some VW specs. Schaeffer contends their 5w40 meets some VW specs.

VW has never officially tested any of these oils.

Amsoil In this Thread only

Which AMSOIL?

Premium API CJ-4 Diesel Oil (DEO)

European Car Formula Motor Oil (AFL)

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