Amsoil In this Thread only

BEN721364 said:

I think the same can be said of any engine lubricant manufacturer/blender. Don't you?

I have used major brands and never had an oil related engine failure in over 50 years. IMO the brand is far less important than that the product meets the recommended specifications and is used properly, as you noted.

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I don't think anyone is claiming that Amsoil can do something another quality oil cannot. But to say Amsoil is garbage like a few are trying to claim is not true either.

Amsoil does suggest you can run extended intervals, something that other oil manufactures are also now claiming.

I think we agree that "spraying" contests are immature and serve no useful purpose.

To point out things that make one's product different is fine but to denigrate a competing product is not, IMO.

I go by the owners' manual as to the type, viscosity range and API service ratings. I tend to err on the side of caution and change oil more frequently than some in all internal combustion engines. I believe that all oils that have been demonstrated to meet API standards for the particular application are fine and select based on convenience, price, and loyalty to the retailer. YMMV but this approach hasn't let me down in more than a half century.

milehighassassin said:

Idon't think anyone is claiming that Amsoil can do something another quality oil cannot. But to say Amsoil is garbage like a few are trying to claim is not true either.

Amsoil does suggest you can run extended intervals, something that other oil manufactures are also now claiming.

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I am told that Mobil 1 ESP is both 507.00 and API rated. I don't know of any other oils that carry both ratings and are readily available in the USA.
Having both ratings does not necessarily mean it is the best oil for the job, IMO.

Bill

Bill,

Some of the VW 504.00/507.00 oils do also meet API SM/CF Specs. So they're suitable (but expensive), for domestic and Asian gas engines. However, your garden variety Mobil 1 is more cost effective for these Apps.

I've been meaning to try some VW 504.00/507.00 oil in one of my gas engines, just to
get a point of comparison. They'd probably be good for 10k miles in gas engines, but I'd expect them to be fairly depleted by the end of the service interval.

TS

TS,

Thanks for the info.

Bill

TooSlick said:

Bill,

Some of the VW 504.00/507.00 oils do also meet API SM/CF Specs. So they're suitable (but expensive), for domestic and Asian gas engines. However, your garden variety Mobil 1 is more cost effective for these Apps.

I've been meaning to try some VW 504.00/507.00 oil in one of my gas engines, just to
get a point of comparison. They'd probably be good for 10k miles in gas engines, but I'd expect them to be fairly depleted by the end of the service interval.

TS

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Depending on the engine and conditions, I suspect TBN will be "low" by 5K miles using a 504.00/507.00 in a US-spec sparker motor.

In terms of the oil changing interval (OCI) my recent readings of some information shared in these forums points towards some potential 'costs' to the engine if we change it more frequently than recommended (10K miles in our TDIs).

So it might not necessarily be 'cheap insurance' any longer to change the oil more often with the higher technology lubrication available to us.

Of course everybody needs to do their own research and make your own conclusions.

What costs would those be?

tikal said:

In terms of the oil changing interval (OCI) my recent readings of some information shared in these forums points towards some potential 'costs' to the engine if we change it more frequently than recommended (10K miles in our TDIs).

So it might not necessarily be 'cheap insurance' any longer to change the oil more often with the higher technology lubrication available to us.

Of course everybody needs to do their own research and make your own conclusions.

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BEN721364 said:

What costs would those be?

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Undesirable interactions of the oil additives with the engine when the oil is changed too often (meaning more often than x miles as recommended by the manufacturer for fully synthetic diesel-rated oils).

This is for the 'average TDI driver' so there could be candidates whose driving profile MIGHT require more frequent OCI.

There are some links which I do not have handy that discuss this topic in detail. Hope this helps.

It would appear that at least a couple VW dealership service departments didn't get the memo. It is an interesting take but I cannot buy it without more of an explanation. I'm just saying.

I think the theory is every time you change the oil, there is a temporary spike in wear rates, due to the aggressiveness of the fresh additives. I think it's more likely that the increased detergency/dispersancy of the new oil holds all the wear particles in suspension. So the fairly new oil may test out like there is lots of wear occurring. Furthermore, all of the old oil does not drain out during an oil change. So even at T=0, you have a small concentration of wear metals in the just changed, fresh oil. Perhaps if you changed brands & types of oil at every service interval, you could generate some accelerated wear? But I've never seen it happen in practice.

TS

Thanks.

I know at least major company lube engineer that swears by changing brands every 3 to 4 times he changes oil because he believes the additive packages attack different contaminants. Who knows???

Bob,

The VW 504.00 spec replaces VW 503.01/503.00/502.00 in VW/Audi gas engines. So I can't imagine a properly formulated, VW 504.00 oil wouldn't last for at least 10,000 miles under normal conditions.

TS

TooSlick said:

Bob,

The VW 504.00 spec replaces VW 503.01/503.00/502.00 in VW/Audi gas engines. So I can't imagine a properly formulated, VW 504.00 oil wouldn't last for at least 10,000 miles under normal conditions.

TS

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It would depend on the service. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no.

Well I'm sort of using "normal" to mean not Severe Service conditions.

TS

WARNING! Amsoil is a liar! never trust this company!

They claim their 505.01 oil IS actually approved by VW. This is FALSE. It is NOT APPROVED as of 2011/06. It is also NOT in the latest official approved oil list.

Amsoil lies.

The AMSOIL “European Car Formula 5W-40 Motor Oil” (AFL) IS approved because it DOES meet the 505.01 spec. Some older lists do not have them, because for several months they (Volkswagon) would not release either the spec or testing requirements, or identify a testing lab that could perform the tests – this is a common delay/ploy intended to benefit the original oil mf’r (such as Castrol) who worked with them to formulate the spec and product.

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They play general game 'VW forgot to include us in their list'. I would never buy this oil to use in my PD.


Oh, and the original link (the source) to their information: http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/synthetic_engine_oil/AFL_meets_VW_505.01.htm

Did you bother reading this thread or did you just come in here spouting off?

For the record I have used Amsoil European car formula in my car with no issues and have even better results with their DEO which is unapproved.

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milehighassassin said:

Did you bother reading this thread or did you just come in here spouting off?

For the record I have used Amsoil European car formula in my car with no issues and have even better results with their DEO which is unapproved.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yes, but lying in their official page doesn't give them any benefits. I wouldn't trust a company which lies. Oh, and as for usage, you're free to use anything you want in your car, even olive oil (extra virgin, of course), and yeah, with excellent results.

Henrick said:

Yes, but lying in their official page doesn't give them any benefits. I wouldn't trust a company which lies. Oh, and as for usage, you're free to use anything you want in your car, even olive oil (extra virgin, of course), and yeah, with excellent results.

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That is not Amsoil's page. That's the page of an independent sales dealer.

Above the section you quoted from it says:

"Questions and Answers about Amsoil AFL 5W-40 European Formula:
These e-mailed questions have been answered by our degreed automotive engineers.
(None of them are employed by AMSOIL, Inc.)"

This is Amsoil's page:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx

This is what they say:

APPLICATION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:

API SM/CF
ACEA C3
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725

I like the Amsoil 10W40 AMO and it has a high zinc content and high TBN etc. It is tested at some 1800rpm [600 rpm more] and twice the temp., as most of their other lub oils are. Henrich you should park your car and walk as all companys lie, all oil companys for sure so that means you can't use their lub oils or their fuels????

"AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:"

Does the package (can or bottle) include wording to the effect that the product is approved for the listed applications [by the engine manufacturers]?

Bob_Fout said:

That is not Amsoil's page. That's the page of an independent sales dealer.

Above the section you quoted from it says:

"Questions and Answers about Amsoil AFL 5W-40 European Formula:
These e-mailed questions have been answered by our degreed automotive engineers.
(None of them are employed by AMSOIL, Inc.)"

This is Amsoil's page:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx

This is what they say:

APPLICATION
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:

API SM/CF
ACEA C3
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725

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What is so great about an oil meeting the VW 505.01 oil spec?? What makes it so called gods gift to VW's???

BEN721364 said:

"AMSOIL 100% Synthetic European Car Formula is formulated to surpass the most demanding European specifications. It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications:"

Does the package (can or bottle) include wording to the effect that the product is approved for the listed applications [by the engine manufacturers]?

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The word they use is "Recommended"

BEN721364 said:

Thanks.

I know at least major company lube engineer that swears by changing brands every 3 to 4 times he changes oil because he believes the additive packages attack different contaminants. Who knows???

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That's exactly what I always thought and have done. Why put all yer eggs in one basket?

Amsoil has never claimed their 5w-30 and 5w-40, European oils are on VW/Audi's approved list. They do state quite clearly that both oils meet all the performance requirements (including SAPS limits), for the VW 507.00 and VW505.01 specifications, respectively. Provided the basestock blend is of sufficient quality, meeting these specs is almost entirely a matter of having the correct additive chemistry. If you test these oils, you'll see they're using a version of the same additive chemistry as Motul, Total, Pentosin,
Etc....

BTW, the same thing holds for their DEO, CJ-4/SM formulation, which to me looks to be using a beefed up (higher additive levels), version of the same additive package as the Rotella T, 5w-40 synthetic.

TS

I thought research by OA shows that oil lasts a lot longer than recommended change intervals and they should be extended to suit.

Bob_Fout said:

The word they use is "Recommended"

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I stand corrected. You did understand what I was trying to convey?

I can speak for no one but myself. I will not second guess the company that builds an engine and would not recommend that anyone else do so.

BEN721364 said:

I will not second guess the company that builds an engine and would not recommend that anyone else do so.

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The "company" that builds the engine is inconsistent in it's verbiage with regards to oils. I treat the owner's manual as my source of information, as do most owners. See below....

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3347024&postcount=8

As I've mentioned numerous times, whether or not an oil is on the approved VW/Audi list, the oil company (Not VWOA), is entirely responsible for the performance of their product in the TDI application. If any oil company were to blend a lubricant that didn't meet some critical parameter of the VW specs, you'd have engines failing all over the place; it would be very obvious; the oil company would have to cover it.

In Europe, getting on these approved lists is basically a form of advertising for companies that choose to participate in the program, pay the fees to VW, etc. By contrast, the independent Lube Manufacturers Association (ILMA), members in North America such as Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, Schaeffers, etc have made a business decision not get on these approved lists because the return on investment simply isn't there, and it essentially locks them into sole supplier arrangements when it comes to purchasing synthetic base stocks from vendors. The majors such as ExxonMobil, Shell, Chevron, BP (Castrol), etc, formulate synthetic base stocks in-house, so this isn't a consideration for them.

TS

"I treat the owner's manual as my source of information..." Me too!

IFRCFI said:

The "company" that builds the engine is inconsistent in it's verbiage with regards to oils. I treat the owner's manual as my . I treat the owner's manual as my source of informationsource of information, as do most owners. See below....

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3347024&postcount=8

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