Mk5 GTD Swap **IN THE WORKS**

Very nice swap! Are you running a heavy SMF and Fluidampr with your clutch setup?
The loud engine when creeping at low speeds, are you sure it's not related to the turbo vanes opening? I get a louder exhaust note when cruising sub 1400rpm and light load, but it's because of the vanes opening and I have only a resonator in place. I actually like the sound
Also have the same CP3 coming from 2micron for my Golf here in the coming weeks.

No I'm not running a fluidamer I'm under the impression they didn't put steel syncros in until mk6's. I also have a buddy with a SMF on his Big turbo, GTB2060 I think, common rail and he hasn't had an issue. He also tracks his.

The engine sound I'm talking about is more like a fuel injection timing sound. More knock than it should. I was having some injector codes randomly, hoping all that clears up with the CP3 other wise I guess I'll be needing injectors. This was likely the cause of the sound, I just don't want to accept it ?

Jagerauto said:

The performance gains, if any would be minimal and dependent on other mods. I've read a little on the delete, the flaps at a very light load improves combustion stability. I also read that the motors were quieter under load without the flaps.

I didn't do it because of performance, I did it because I wanted a simpler setup, I already had the diesel geek "fix", and I can sell that to a customer when they bring one in with the same problem.

I also was experiencing a loud motor at times. Like going through the neighborhood at low speed in 2nd gear. The engine was particularly loud, like injection timing, or fuel was cut back. Hoping this goes away at least.

In any case these plates are top notch quality, a buddy of mine makes them.

@bengone1

Click to expand...

once the plates are in, how do you block of the motor at the end? and im guessing a tune is needed to not throw a CEL with the delete?

Strider17 said:

once the plates are in, how do you block of the motor at the end? and im guessing a tune is needed to not throw a CEL with the delete?

Click to expand...

You leave the end in, it's held in place by a clip. I cut the arm off to make it nicer looking, I also cut the bracket that the motor mounts to off the intake. I can take a pic tomorrow.

Yes you will need a tune to get rid of the CEL, however it will run fine, but don't expect anything extra out of it unless it's tuned.

I got the fuel tank in, exhaust back on, rear suspension back together. Had to remove the passenger trailing arm to get the filler neck out easily.

I also got the front end on, intercooler hoses on, cooling lines on, and ac lines hooked up.

I got scared for a second when I saw that the Gti coolant connector on the top driver side was different. Opposite of how the tdi one was. But turns out while the clip was positioned opposite, the connector was the same orientation so it plugged right up.

The ac lines the same, I used the stock Gti line from the condenser to the expansion valve. Used the tdi compressor to condenser line, and used the tdi line from the expansion valve to the compressor. It was a pain even with the motor out to fit the line from the expansion valve to the compressor with the Gti one. They were considerably different, and the Gti line that I re used ran right next to it, so it was a little different. There was some slight bending involved. Had that other line not been damaged from the tdi I would have used it as well. But bending worked and I just made sure they weren't touching each other or anything around them.

CRSMP5 said:

wow a built up dirty diesel.. what happens when no one supports that engine with parts as vw screwed the pooch.. why make timing belts or things like waterpumps?? i hope things like th eoil filter is used in a different application too.. else they may get hard to obtain.. easiest way to get i toff the road.. no more oil filters...

Click to expand...

Uh, hopefully you're joking, but I'm guessing not. The CBEA/CJAA common rails use the same oil filter as the BRM Pumpe Duse engine. Not going away.

Since when has an engine being out of production ended parts support? The 1Z hasn't been in production in the US in like 2 decades and parts are still easily available.

Nice build, wish I had time, money and energy for projects like this.

CRSMP5 said:

wow a built up dirty diesel.. what happens when no one supports that engine with parts as vw screwed the pooch.. why make timing belts or things like waterpumps?? i hope things like th eoil filter is used in a different application too.. else they may get hard to obtain.. easiest way to get i toff the road.. no more oil filters...

Click to expand...

Dirty diesel, how laughable. If you drive an older TDI, you're polluting more than any CR will or can. Go away.

Thanks guys

Been tinkering with some cosmetic things while I wait for parts.

Had the headlights smoked a little to get rid of the fog for good. Will be replacing the headlights eventually as the wiring inside is starting to fall apart.

No time for it this week, still waiting on fuel parts, and have a jet ski event this weekend. Shall wait a little longer, but I leave you with this..

Nice!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

G60ING said:

Nice!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

What's up Frank!

Very nice!

Thanks!

Sweet build!

My question is how did you deal with the immobilizer? Did you switch over all the components the immobilizer touches from the donor car? Do you know what generation of immobilizer either of the cars have?

In not sure on the generation, but I swapped the Can bus Module, Ecu, cluster, and key fob (just swapped the blades around)

https://vimeo.com/200341477

marcusku said:

Sweet build!

My question is how did you deal with the immobilizer? Did you switch over all the components the immobilizer touches from the donor car? Do you know what generation of immobilizer either of the cars have?

Click to expand...

Also, if you're swapping the engine into a very different car, you can have an immobilizer delete done. In that case, you only need the ECU to run the engine. The CAN lines can be run directly from the ECU to the OBDII port for VCDS etc.

Nice! Andrew informed me that your cp3 is an R70 like the others. It just has a generic tag plate that says R110. I've seen generic tags on turbos, didn't realize they were also used on hpfp's sometimes.

Wow! beautiful VW diesel clacking sound!

turbobrick240 said:

Nice! Andrew informed me that your cp3 is an R70 like the others. It just has a generic tag plate that says R110. I've seen generic tags on turbos, didn't realize they were also used on hpfp's sometimes.

Click to expand...

Ah I wouldn't know. Haha but I do now


I had to add in the second EGT sensor so I could utilize the 3.5 tune. Easy enough just pulled the wiring and plug out of the box of wires and pinned it into the corresponding Ecu plug pin. I however miscounted and ended up putting it in the EGT sensor 3 hole, so I had to open it back up and re pin it over one. I was like why do I have a code for sensor 2 still!! Then I realizing didn't have a code for sensor 3. ?

Also today was focused on swapping over the front suspension. Which consisted of aluminum Passat control arms, knuckles and the ST coil overs.





Also I removed the door panels so I can re do them at some point.

nate0031 said:

Also, if you're swapping the engine into a very different car, you can have an immobilizer delete done. In that case, you only need the ECU to run the engine. The CAN lines can be run directly from the ECU to the OBDII port for VCDS etc.

Click to expand...

Interesting, so are you able to read the rest of the control modules out of that same port or do you end up needing a second OBDII port?

It was my understanding that immobilizer IV like in this car talks to a bunch of control modules. What do you have to do to the other control modules when you pull the ECU out of the mix to keep them happy?

Obd reads off the CAN gateway like all the other modules. The Immo needs to see the cluster, ECU, and key match. They read off the CAN gateway too.

Mine also needed the Can Gateway to work. I'm not sure why, but I swapped it all.

The CAN is needed to communicate with the cluster and ECU and key, if you have an immo delete you can run CANless, though you would still need the gateway to communicate properly with the ECU through VCDS.

I am running a common rail in a beettle, naked so to speak, no cluster and just using the original gauge for oil and charge lights. There is no room for the Jetta cluster, and no need either. I did retain the can for ECU speak, and the cluster wiring. I did have it hooked up at first for testing.

Cool build. I have been following it with much interest.

Common rails run so good in other cars it is almost addicting to want to put them in. I have a couple projects planned in my mind already.

pdq import repair said:

The CAN is needed to communicate with the cluster and ECU and key, if you have an immo delete you can run CANless, though you would still need the gateway to communicate properly with the ECU through VCDS.

I am running a common rail in a beettle, naked so to speak, no cluster and just using the original gauge for oil and charge lights. There is no room for the Jetta cluster, and no need either. I did retain the can for ECU speak, and the cluster wiring. I did have it hooked up at first for testing.

Cool build. I have been following it with much interest.

Common rails run so good in other cars it is almost addicting to want to put them in. I have a couple projects planned in my mind already.

Click to expand...

Nice to see more CR swaps! You don't actually need the CAN gateway to communicate with the ECU via VCDS. My engine ECU is immo deleted, and has no other modules present. The CAN lines from the ECU do nothing but go directly to the OBDII port CAN pins, and VCDS works perfectly.

So no gateway, or anything other than the ECU is needed to run the CR engine and use VCDS. However, if you want to make use of the CAN system for the cluster etc, obviously more is needed. I have a cheap bluetooth OBDII adapter plugged in day to day, and read boost, EGT's, rail pressure, etc. That has also never given me issue despite the direct connection to the ECU.

For the instrument cluster, I kept the vehicles stock ECU for the time being. Water temp is given by the stock water temp sensor being plumbed into the cooling system, oil temp/level bolted right into the AWM oil pan I used, and RPM is given by a 60/2 reluctor wheel mounted behind the crank damper with the stock (2.7t) VR pickup mounted there. The TDI ECU uses it's original Hall Effect sensor at the rear of the crank.

I'm still working on a cleaner solution. I have a Teensy and CAN transceiver installed so I can pick up data from the bus, but I'm still sorting through what I've collected. As time allows I'll finish up that part of the project, eliminating the extra ECU and cleaning up my setup a good bit. In the meantime, I do have 2 OBDII ports. One for the TDI's ECU, the other for all the other modules in the car. The stock ECU is still accessible, and throws an impressive amount of codes, lol.

marcusku said:

Interesting, so are you able to read the rest of the control modules out of that same port or do you end up needing a second OBDII port?
It was my understanding that immobilizer IV like in this car talks to a bunch of control modules. What do you have to do to the other control modules when you pull the ECU out of the mix to keep them happy?

Click to expand...

In my specific case, all the rest of the modules original to the car don't seem to care. Likely because it's a bit older at 2000. Auto AC, ABS, limited slip, etc all work just as they should. The AC did require the compressor request/permission lines to be connected together, as the stock ECU would never give it permission to run otherwise with all its codes.

The immobilizer does talk to other systems, the cluster and ignition coil being the biggies. I'm not sure if any other modules depend on it or not. In my case it was irrelevant, as with the immobilizer deleted from the ECU it needed no other modules, and none of the other modules in my car cared.

When I first did my common rail standalone there was little or no info out there that I could find. Some discussions insisted that I would need to hook up the ABS to get a speed signal to trick the ecu out of limp as there was no software option.

I had bought a whole wrecked car to get all the pieces so when I built the first harness it had literally everything in it. I fired the engine first time with cluster and ignition switch and can intact.

Since putting it in a 69 beetle and getting a immo delete and tune I have very much simplified the harness and found it will run can-less with no problems. Good to know it will communicate with VCDS direct too. (more simplification)

It has been a good exercise for me because now I know I can put a common rail in anything it will physically fit in and make it as complex or as simple as needed. I could run it full DPF, exhaust flap, etc. if desired or needed.

I have a couple of projects starting to gel now that will be of the simple nature (VW type 4 fastback and 78 type 2)so I will hone my harness down to the bare minimums. As far as I know to get a glow plug light and check engine light a CAN gateway of some sort is needed. Currently running the beetle with neither one. No problem starting cold as long as you just remember to wait a couple seconds before cranking.

I am glad to see more common rail swaps too, as the cumulative knowledge is growing almost exponentially. They are such sweet running powerplants they deserve to live on in other platforms.

Well the tune is finished, no codes present in the ECU. I have to work out issues with the power steering (electric). Also when I start it up cold, and jump on the throttle I get all the power I should but after running for a minute it seems to flat line. Only boosts up to 2000rpm and only 7-8psi.

To me it seems to be a fuel issue. No codes present. All the lines are correct.

I drove it home so I can tinker with it this weekend. Anyone have to reset basic settings on turbo actuator or injectors after this much modification?

I'm also getting a hanging idle nothing crazy just if I blip the throttle at a stop i notice it doesn't fall right away.

Going to do some logs tomorrow.

This is probably for the better so the clutch gets broken in. I have no self control ?

Well nothing figured out on the running issue yet.

But I got the interior all cleaned up and washed the outside. Euro GTi seats in, rears will go in after the door panels are done. Recruited my girl to help vacuum all the dog hair out!

I believe my intermittent low power issue is related to my cruise control not working. Cruise works when car has full boost and runs good... have to look into speed sensors, and brake/clutch switches.

Anyone else have any insight?