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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old July 9th, 2018, 17:35   #1
coalminer16
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Default Relay 109 buzzing 2005 Golf

Relay is buzzing. Swapped with one from a running 05 Jetta and same results in the 05 Golf. Not seeing power at the blue and yellow wire unless plugged in and then it is around 11.5 volts which is the wire to turn the relay on.

What are my next steps?

Car started hard for my wife, made it to the end of the driveway and died. Got to the 109 fuze. Not much information on the pdf engine models with a bad 109 relay circuit.

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Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 18:10   #2
TDI-WNC
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Relay 109 energizes the fuel shut off solenoid on the injector pump. If the relay fails to energize the solenoid, no fuel to injectors.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 19:18   #3
coalminer16
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Not on a pd engine car. I have no solenoid to pull in since I have unit injectors ran off the cam lobes.

I need to know what I am looking for that feeds the tiny yellow/blue wire. Swapping batteries and 109 relays didn't do anything. No fuses out that I am finding in reference to other threads.

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1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 19:40   #4
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The Blue/Yellow wire goes to the ECU Pin 49 on the larger(94 pin) connector via Pin 8 of the Blue plenum connector. The ECU should ground this line to activate the relay.

The ECU Pin 18(94 pin) gets power from the ignition switch on a Black/Violet wire via the Brown plenum connector pin 1 and fuse 29.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 19:46   #5
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Since electrical is not my strongest area - I need to be looking in the rain tray for these pins right? And to understand - the blue/yellow shouldn't have power but rather it needs to go to ground but ground only through the ecu? Kind of makes sense but want to confirm. Is there any chance it is a bad ground say around the battery area which seems to be a common area? Or in the rain tray area? Basically - how the heck do I test it? If I check continuity to the pins on the ecu and they check out - what would be the next step?

The codes from VCDS were as follows if that helps narrow it down:

Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 907 E
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V03
Coding: 05202
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 2B5E15B0D9D06B1E14-50AC
9BWGR61J954002169 VWZ7Z0D9992818

2 Faults Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit
64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00001
VCID: 70E4C2DC307648C661-50AC

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
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1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 9th, 2018, 20:33   #6
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Ok- read it a few more times. I understand.

So - I must be getting at least some power to the ecu and getting some ground from 109 to the ecu inorder for the relay to chatter. What should I attack knowing that I am at least getting a partial circuit enough to pull 109 in enough to chatter?

Is it worth trying to put a switch on the blue/yellow wire to ground to first see if the car starts and second - be able to use the car until I can find the full fix? I just recently took a new job closer to family - problem is my tools and parts are in another state now as is my wife/kids. She was going to drive this car back but now I have it and she got the jetta. I am now barrowing my brothers rabbit truck to drive 50 miles one way to work each day unless I can get this fixed. Not so bad if it had cruise control and AC in the 90 degree heat. But better then barrowing the Dodge diesel at 20 mpg vs 40ish (depending on the VW diesel).
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1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 10:08   #7
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From your post: it is around 11.5 volts
This is low voltage. Does the battery have 12.6 volts on the -posts- ?

Check the fuses above the battery for clean tight connections.
There is a ground point under the battery. If it's not good anything that grounds to the body is not good.
Have someone crank the car while you measure the battery voltage. If it drops below 9.6 volts the ECU will not work.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 10:57   #8
coalminer16
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The return off the relay to activate it was at the 11.5 mark. But the big red lead was around 12.5.

I will check the cranking voltage. There is no corrosion at the battery top. I have not checked grounds yet.

Is it worth running a bypass to ground for the blue yellow to see of that makes it all work again?

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Shade Tree Mechanic "I'm too shady to know anything"
1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 17:49   #9
coalminer16
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Fuse 29 has 12.6 volts. I jumpered the yellow/blue wire, cleared codes and the codes won't stay away. Cleaned the grounds under the battery and no change. Tackling getting rain tray off now.

What next?

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Shade Tree Mechanic "I'm too shady to know anything"
1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 18:29   #10
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When you get under the cowl to get to the ECU I think there is a ground there. Not sure.

It sounds like you have the wire diagrams?
When you get to the ECU I would check if it's getting full battery voltage. Probably a couple power feeds, always hot and hot with the key on.

I would check the grounds to the ECU also.
With the key on put the negative lead on the -negative- post of the battery.
Measure the voltage at ground wires near the ECU. I would not want to see more then a couple tenths of a volt.
This is a voltage drop test btw.

You have to find where the 1 volt drop is. 12.5V - 11.5V
Trying to bypass things by jumping wires could end up having to much power running through to thin of a wire.
This is where a power probe could help diagnose. I'm just starting to understand it.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 21:29   #11
coalminer16
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No wire diagrams.

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Shade Tree Mechanic "I'm too shady to know anything"
1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 21:37   #12
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No diagrams, no worries, we're here to help. Take a look at this.

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Old July 11th, 2018, 08:44   #13
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I had that same 01314 DTC in both the Instruments and Transmission(auto) groups, and I think it was due to a faulty crankshaft position sensor. A new sensor cured the stalling. When I changed the t-stat I disturbed the fragile cable for this sensor.
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Old July 11th, 2018, 20:31   #14
coalminer16
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What is this wire? I can't see where it would hook up.

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Shade Tree Mechanic "I'm too shady to know anything"
1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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Old July 12th, 2018, 05:47   #15
coalminer16
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I did check the ground post, it was clean but I cleaned it further. Still same issue. Wondering if the pictured wire has an effect. Brown/red.

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Shade Tree Mechanic "I'm too shady to know anything"
1981 Rabbit car 1.9aaz, 5 spd, 1981 Caddy VW truck diesel, 2004 Golf-2 inch lift, -fixing, 2005 Golf-2 inch lift - totaled twice and fixed twice, 2005 Jetta Wagon - 2 inch lift
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers
I really had no idea that VW dealerships were so awful to go to, they sound like undertakers cos everything that goes in there winds up dead.
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