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Non VW Group Diesels This section is for discusion of Non VWGroup Diesels.

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Old July 3rd, 2018, 16:57   #736
n1das
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Originally Posted by PeteZ06 View Post
I'm averaging low 30's with a pretty heavy foot in my 535Dx

50% of the time I'm in normal mode... the other 50% in Sport mode... I never put it in ECO mode because the engine shutting off at stops annoys me. Wish I could have it in ECO mode without the engine shutting off.
Why use ECO mode at all? It sort of defeats the purpose of driving a BMW. I don't like the other things that ECO mode does such as de-power the A/C. You'll notice reduced A/C performance in hot weather while in ECO mode. I have only used ECO mode in my 535dX enough to verify that it works and explore its behavior. The engine shutting off at a stop in traffic was a bit unnerving the first time it happened. I keep the auto-stop disabled at all times. I don't drive my diesels for MPGs and the better MPGs comes as a bonus.

I'm averaging low 30s with my heavy right foot in my 535dX. I drive exclusively in Sport mode. Sport mode gives a smarter shift strategy for spirited driving and automatically downshifts when decelerating. I like Sport mode better for in town and city stop and go traffic. I find it has tighter control over what the car is doing, like what you want with a manual transmission.

BMWs like TDIs need to be driven hard and like they were stolen to help prevent intake clogging (aka carbon buildup or CBU in the Bimmerfest forums). Also avoid using them exclusively for short trips. Driving in Sport mode helps keep the RPMs higher to avoid CBU problems due to low-RPM driving. Just like with TDIs, "drive it like you stole it" applies.

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Last edited by n1das; July 3rd, 2018 at 17:04.
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 21:47   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOCleanDieselWag View Post
Canada here . Based on the dashboard display of our 328d, we're averaging 6.2 liters per 100 kilometers, which translates to just over 45 miles per imperial gallon. Sorry, I don't have a calculator for the smaller US gallon. We've noticed that the consumption has improved with the change from winter to summer tires, and as the mileage on the car has increased (maybe the engine continues to break in?). Very satisfied with this car, and we're not hypermilers. We tend to leave the car in "Confort" mode, and typically have the A/C on.
Happy Campers here!!
https://www.google.com/search?q=6.2+...100+kilometers

That's roughly 37MPG US. Very nice!
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Old July 4th, 2018, 19:06   #738
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Originally Posted by n1das View Post
Why use ECO mode at all? It sort of defeats the purpose of driving a BMW. I don't like the other things that ECO mode does such as de-power the A/C. You'll notice reduced A/C performance in hot weather while in ECO mode. I have only used ECO mode in my 535dX enough to verify that it works and explore its behavior. The engine shutting off at a stop in traffic was a bit unnerving the first time it happened. I keep the auto-stop disabled at all times. I don't drive my diesels for MPGs and the better MPGs comes as a bonus.

I'm averaging low 30s with my heavy right foot in my 535dX. I drive exclusively in Sport mode. Sport mode gives a smarter shift strategy for spirited driving and automatically downshifts when decelerating. I like Sport mode better for in town and city stop and go traffic. I find it has tighter control over what the car is doing, like what you want with a manual transmission.

BMWs like TDIs need to be driven hard and like they were stolen to help prevent intake clogging (aka carbon buildup or CBU in the Bimmerfest forums). Also avoid using them exclusively for short trips. Driving in Sport mode helps keep the RPMs higher to avoid CBU problems due to low-RPM driving. Just like with TDIs, "drive it like you stole it" applies.

Sport mode effectively removes 8th gear.

Eco mode adds the "coast" feature unavailable in other modes.

I find the engine uncomfortably lugs at 1000 RPM in eco mode - something that is apparently not good for the engine if trying to suddenly accelerate.

I have found eco mode to be about the same as comfort in throttle response but prefer something with better timing for acceleration.

I am not happy with any of the modes, but use comfort mode the most. I would really prefer a manual transmission and less stiff throttle.

Carbon buildup in direct injection diesels is likely related to fuel quality, engine design (valve timing etc.), and additives. There is no evidence that anything other that pure city driving (anecdotal) is remotely related.

The A/C is no big deal once the cabin is cool enough.

TM
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Last edited by Tin Man; July 4th, 2018 at 19:10.
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Old July 4th, 2018, 22:14   #739
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Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
Sport mode effectively removes 8th gear.

Eco mode adds the "coast" feature unavailable in other modes.

I find the engine uncomfortably lugs at 1000 RPM in eco mode - something that is apparently not good for the engine if trying to suddenly accelerate.

I have found eco mode to be about the same as comfort in throttle response but prefer something with better timing for acceleration.

I am not happy with any of the modes, but use comfort mode the most. I would really prefer a manual transmission and less stiff throttle.

Carbon buildup in direct injection diesels is likely related to fuel quality, engine design (valve timing etc.), and additives. There is no evidence that anything other that pure city driving (anecdotal) is remotely related.

The A/C is no big deal once the cabin is cool enough.

TM

I like the Coast mode in Eco Mode but I'm noticing I'm definitely using my brakes a lot more... I wonder if earlier brake replacement outweighs the benefit of saving fuel.

I agree about the AC... we've had some 90 degree humid days here in Chicago and still cools down the cabin just fine.

Feels sluggish in 4th gear.. thats usually when I'm feeling like I'm not keeping up with traffic.

its a nice feature for stop and go,bumper to bumper traffic.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 08:09   #740
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Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
Carbon buildup in direct injection diesels is likely related to fuel quality, engine design (valve timing etc.), and additives. There is no evidence that anything other that pure city driving (anecdotal) is remotely related.
Food for thought, the M57 engine is used in both 335d and x5d. The x5d is heavier and has secondary, low pressure, egr. The 335d tends to build up CBU a lot faster than an x5d, with many x5's att 100+K miles and only minor build-up, yet my 335d was all caked up at 47k miles. Deleted the EGR and there is now zero buildup, just oil residue from CCV. I don't think fuel quality or additives have anything to do with CBU. Soot coming from EGR and oil from CCV combine to create that nasty tar-like substance.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 10:43   #741
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If you are using the brakes more in Eco mode it just means you aren't planning ahead and getting off the go pedal soon enough!

For the AC, IIRC there's a menu in the idrive that lets you adjust how "eco" your Eco mode really is, so you can turn the "AC reduction" on or off. I just drive in Comfort during hot weather.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 13:04   #742
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Food for thought, the M57 engine is used in both 335d and x5d. The x5d is heavier and has secondary, low pressure, egr. The 335d tends to build up CBU a lot faster than an x5d, with many x5's att 100+K miles and only minor build-up, yet my 335d was all caked up at 47k miles. Deleted the EGR and there is now zero buildup, just oil residue from CCV. I don't think fuel quality or additives have anything to do with CBU. Soot coming from EGR and oil from CCV combine to create that nasty tar-like substance.
I kept my 2011 335d for over 100,000 miles and only had a problem with the urea injection thermostat (with what ended up as burned out catalytic converters after using a diesel preserving additive at around 25,000 miles BTW). No perceived CBU in any of my direct injection diesels with all going at least 100,000 miles. Of note, the engine management software was upgraded about 2-3 times just during the 2011 model year.

What you say may be true but doesn't account for all the engines free of CBU problems out there. Notice, I'm not saying there was no CBU, just that it wasn't apparent at all.

I would venture to guess, as all of these theories are thought of, that high speed long distance travel helps prevent CBU issues as much as anything else. The trained biochemist in me believes it likely that metal-adherent molecules, mostly present in additives and fuel impurities, may also contribute. I am convinced that brand name diesel has the best chance of being high quality with proper additives as well as tank maintenance.

Reports of CBU on the Internet are notorious for not including aftermarket additive use, brand vs off-brand fuel, and perhaps other factors.

Otherwise, ALL these engines would need CBU cleaning before 50,000 miles and they obviously don't.

Cheers,

TM
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Old July 5th, 2018, 13:47   #743
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Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
I kept my 2011 335d for over 100,000 miles and only had a problem with the urea injection thermostat (with what ended up as burned out catalytic converters after using a diesel preserving additive at around 25,000 miles BTW). No perceived CBU in any of my direct injection diesels with all going at least 100,000 miles. Of note, the engine management software was upgraded about 2-3 times just during the 2011 model year.

What you say may be true but doesn't account for all the engines free of CBU problems out there. Notice, I'm not saying there was no CBU, just that it wasn't apparent at all.

I would venture to guess, as all of these theories are thought of, that high speed long distance travel helps prevent CBU issues as much as anything else. The trained biochemist in me believes it likely that metal-adherent molecules, mostly present in additives and fuel impurities, may also contribute. I am convinced that brand name diesel has the best chance of being high quality with proper additives as well as tank maintenance.

Reports of CBU on the Internet are notorious for not including aftermarket additive use, brand vs off-brand fuel, and perhaps other factors.

Otherwise, ALL these engines would need CBU cleaning before 50,000 miles and they obviously don't.

Cheers,

TM
Was this on a North American 335d? If so, not debating, but getting to 100K without a CBU cleaning is a rare feat. If the car is dedicated to highway commuting, I've seen this, but in general with a 60hwy/40%city driving mix most are choked up by 70k miles and unless itís started to foul up the injectors, most donít notice the loss of power. We've literally seen hundreds of manifolds and intake runners caked up with CBU on the NA e90post forum or facebook group. No additive will eliminate soot. The NA specific EGR system is a crappy design, euro models tend to fare better.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 14:10   #744
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Was this on a North American 335d? If so, not debating, but getting to 100K without a CBU cleaning is a rare feat. If the car is dedicated to highway commuting, I've seen this, but in general with a 60hwy/40%city driving mix most are choked up by 70k miles and unless it’s started to foul up the injectors, most don’t notice the loss of power. We've literally seen hundreds of manifolds and intake runners caked up with CBU on the NA e90post forum or facebook group. No additive will eliminate soot. The NA specific EGR system is a crappy design, euro models tend to fare better.
Sorry but your figures are from BMW? As a mechanic that only sees problem cars? From reading posts on the Internet (how many owners don't post?)

My estimates are not so keen, even to say more than half are affected.

And no, additives don't eliminate soot (even though many think they do all sorts of things including decrease soot) - I believe its possible that the metal-attracting molecules inherent in "injector-cleaning" additive may also create the basis for "sticking" to intake manifolds instead of blowing out the exhaust. Please note that Techron works this way in gasoline engines by "replacing" valve and injector deposits by adhering to the metal better than the deposits.

Yes, my car was driven normally but with a lot of highway miles in hot/humid climate with top maintenance and care.

TM
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Old July 5th, 2018, 15:23   #745
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Sorry but your figures are from BMW? As a mechanic that only sees problem cars? From reading posts on the Internet (how many owners don't post?)
My figures (yes estimates) come from the sources I already quoted to you. The e90post M57 owners forum and North American BMW Diesel Owners Group (NABDOG) on Facebook (1,974 members as of today, primarily M57 owners) can attest. Countless members, in stock form, posting their CBU experience. The other issue you are overlooking is that even the slightest boost leak (red charge pipe is notorious and common for being leaky) can create significant amounts of soot, not register as a fault, and when mixed with oil vapor from CCV just creates havoc in the manifold. There were only 10k or so 335ds imported into NA. Go ahead and google 335d CBU as see how many threads there are to support what I'm saying, including my personal experience. I can remove my manifold in about 30mins and had it off regularly. It's a common problem. (here is a link to just one thread with hundreds of posts discussing their CBU cleaning experience) http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1058497

Block off the EGR (and related soot being passed through the intake) and it's stays perfectly clean, regardless of fuel or additive. It's not your typical direct injection CBU issue you would experience on a N54, as an great example. The EGR set-up on the euro 335d, the x5d M57 and on newer n47/n57 engines seem to fare better.

I will say this again, and I am not trying to debate this with you, but mere fact, it is uncommon to get to 100K on a 335d and not have experienced a CBU issue. It's the driving reason there is a whole aftermarket supporting emission modifications on this platform, on a relatively low North American vehicle count basis, with frustrated owners resorting to delete emissions to avoid the issue. I applaud you for passing that milestone and avoiding the issue. Most don't get there. Likely your driving style among other things contributed to avoiding it, but additives, nah, I don't buy it unless you have proof.
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Old July 5th, 2018, 15:45   #746
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Of the 1,974 owners, "countless" having CBU, the rest of the 10,000 cars must also.

It is not an acceptable circumstance to be sure. I agree.

My posts suggest a solution, not an argument.

Cheers,

TM
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Old July 9th, 2018, 23:47   #747
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Hey guys! Just picked up a 1985 524td...
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Old July 10th, 2018, 10:23   #748
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Awesome! I passed on one back in the day that was in very rough shape, but have long admired the E28 cars. Best of luck with it danix.
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Old July 10th, 2018, 13:03   #749
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Hey guys! Just picked up a 1985 524td...
Gold color, pretty clean? I recall seeing one for sale recently in CA and if that the car, nice pick-up
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Old July 12th, 2018, 00:16   #750
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Nope, not gold (though my E30 is Bronzit). This one is Cosmos Blue. 48k miles. It's the car that was on BAT a few years ago.

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