pd170 bmn bad cold starts after injector recall

hi


i have a mk5 gt tdi sport ppd170 bmn

i had the injectors changed about a month before teh official recall came around and around a week after teh recall i started geting a very bad cold start issue

i have been back to vw and said the injectors all check out fine i went to a second vw dealer who checked the injectors and said they seem fine but he needs to remove the injectors and check the seals and also compression test and this would cost me £300+

i have allrdy spent £200 and all i have been told is its not the injectors but ther is a problem


ther is me and another guy with skoda that is having the same issue

this is my car only happens after the car has stood for around 8 hours

my car has also had the *** delete and remap and egr delete new intake manifold and gasket new turbo cleaned all the intake pipes breather pipe disconected to stop oil goin in the intake and vented to atmosphere

my cold start video

http://youtu.be/7rL2a_56kJU



and this is the skoda

http://youtu.be/OgZhNy-Ptgw



this is a graph of my injector stabalisation on startup







i am booked in at vw again tomorow and am now talking with the manager and also vw uk and have a case but i stil lfeel i will be fobbed off

all they say is they have done 100's of cars and they neva had a problem with the injectors
the car is now back in vw and they our now removing the injectors and goin to check the seats and seals


i have had my car checked twice in the last two week and this morning was the worst the car has ever started it normally fires on first turn of the key but today i had to hold the key on longer and it strugled i was logging with vcds at the time


at the time of the bad start and rough running as you can see on the graph at the same point they are reading
pot 1 -4.31
pot 2 -3.58
pot 3 +3.89
pot 4 +4.00

after i rev the engine it starts to run fine and is fine for the rest of the day untill left for around 8 hours
after the rev these are the logs
pot 1 -0.38
pot 2 -0.73
pot 3 +0.63
pot 4 +0.48

then after a short drive and left to idle for 30 seconds these are the avrage results
pot 1 -0.15
pot 2 -0.66
pot 3 +0.13
pot 4 +0.69

my timing fluctates from 1.84 to 2.23 my timing belt was changed around 500 miles ago but this was hapening with the old timing belt that was around -0.73 torsion value

the car was remaped before the recall and all was fine about 3 days after the recall i started to get symptoms this was around 5k milles ago and they were done last november

you may ask why i hav left it so long but i have had a hell of a year with lets just say family deaths moving house and also father in prision things are getin beter now and not as much on my mind so now im trying to fix the car

this is the cold start this morning





this is a snipit from a 10 min drive the injectors are 0.00 whilst driving but with clutch in the idle injection starts

Bad news the car was left at vw on wednesday


i got a call today friday from vw uk saying that my local dealer has tryed a brand new set of injectors and my problem is still present and ther is nothing more they can do from this point

they are also pointing at my mods and saying these could be the cause but these mods were on the car before it had gone for the injector recall and it was running perfect

i am now lost with what to do or check

They didn't flash your ECU with the injector recall did they?

no i told them not to also have been back to my mapper for some tweeking

think i may have just solved my own problem


my car when cold only idles around 800-850rpm and its stutering if i give the car a qwick blip of the throttle it will start to idle around 900-950 and then it idles fine


is it possible it could be somthing in the mapping on my car ?

i have just reserched some pd170's and they all seem to idle around 1k rpm as soon as the key is turned from cold


thanks any comments are welcome

problem not solved

raised my idle to 900

changed my torsion value from 2.35 to 0.35

new glow plugs


aparantly vw told me two days ago they insatlled BRAND NEW injectors and loom

i opened my engine up to install the glow plugs and noticed the loom still had the marks on it that i made to check if it was changed

so the loom is still the old loom and vw have lied to me i neva got the serial numbers on the injectors last time i opened it up so im not sure if they have lied about an injector swop also


my fuel filter was black and was changed 100 miles ago i think im goin to open this up again and check how much oil is on it if its black again just after 100 miles

i understand this could be the tandem pump or the injector seals is ther anything else that causes oil in the diesel filter housing

could this be caused by a remap

has any one experianced anything like in the videos before and if so what was it

i just need some ideas of other things to check

think im goin to load a standard map on the car aswell and check this will be the best way to rule out a possible mapping issue


thanks in advance

just a qwick update
i have had the fuel filter out and it allrdy started goin a dark colour(200 miles)
also in the diesel ther is millions of little blacks specs
i would of said oil but to me it looks more like exhaust soot
could this be another symptom of injectors ther are not seated corectly ?

SOLVED

well 90% solved the car is running awesome now


i adjusted my front cam from 2.35 to 0.00 -0.35 when warm


this made no difrence i then fine tuned the rear cam and this has had an amazing effect on the engine


the car has been starting in 2c perfect no judder only a little puff of smoke that is to be expected

i carnt belive such a fine adjusment could make so much diffrence

i hope this helps people solve ther idle problems

no mechanic could find my problem and i have lots of difrnet things said to me from headgasket to valve stem seals to faulty injectors

but adjusting the rear cam has improved my car


im VERY HAPPY now

so much for the trained mechanics if you want somthing doin you have to do it urself

I'm sure i told you to do this ages ago? even when the pins are used on these they sometimes still need a little tweek!!

How do i check the timing value of the exhaust cam on a PD170 (the back cam ) ?.
I have VCDS. The Torsion value in meas block 4 - group 4 is the intacke cam (the front cam) ?.

Kilner79 said:

just a qwick update
i have had the fuel filter out and it allrdy started goin a dark colour(200 miles)
also in the diesel ther is millions of little blacks specs
i would of said oil but to me it looks more like exhaust soot
could this be another symptom of injectors ther are not seated corectly ?

Click to expand...

I have had problems with injectors not seated correct, Soot going to fuelfilter. I am thinking of replacing streatchbolts with 12.9 hadened steelbolts. - anybody got any experience with this. ?.

the below is the contents of my fuel from the fuel filter housing

i have orderd some new seal kits so will pull the injectors and check how everything looks and replace all the seals flush the tank and all the fuel lines

and see how long it takes to go black again

sorry to add probley a long post .maybe outdated

im having same problems and add a upgrade injector recall of the pd170 injectors
bad cold starts yet some mornings fires .fine .
ive adjusted front intake cam to 0 .new diesal filter .no oil in the diesal .when underload i feel a slight judder whats like or think is an injector.aude said its not injectors so i fitted new geniune loom .still same .injectors are running in the tolernces .compression test fine no fault fault .and changed filter houseing as well .ive tryed adjusting rear exhuast cam advanced slightly but not joy there

adaptorman said:

sorry to add probley a long post .maybe outdated
im having same problems and add a upgrade injector recall of the pd170 injectors
bad cold starts yet some mornings fires .fine .
ive adjusted front intake cam to 0 .new diesal filter .no oil in the diesal .when underload i feel a slight judder whats like or think is an injector.aude said its not injectors so i fitted new geniune loom .still same .injectors are running in the tolernces .compression test fine no fault fault .and changed filter houseing as well .ive tryed adjusting rear exhuast cam advanced slightly but not joy there

Click to expand...

have you removed the dpf or changed the flywheel ?

Hello,

As far as I have read, issues after injector recall by the dealership are very common and include, only when COLD:
- Poor starting
- Lumpy idle
- White smoke
- Strange bad smell from exaust.

I'm also affected and from what i've read the solution to this is to check injector bolts and seals and make sure they are tight and correctly in place. Apparently dealership only replaces injectors and doesn't care about the rest.

Let me know how it goes, I'm going to schedule an appointment with the dealership.

Here's one detailed post of a PD 170 engine user that solved the issue:
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topi...n-and-intermittent-smoke-pic-heavy/?p=3772103

Good luck all

this issue is caused by a lack of rotating mass on the crankshaft

if the dmf is starting to fail
or a light weight smf is fitted you have a high chance of cold start issues on the ppd 170 a brand new dmf fix my cold start issues on the ppd 1.2

good luck