VW 500, 501, 502, 503, 505, & 506 Oil Specs

The OEM VW Factory Special break-In oIl is VW 521 73

VW 506.00 is the Factory Service Fill for TDI engines with extendened drain capacity 50,000km or two year, from May 1999 (2000 model year).

Of course, all this is in Europe on Euorpean spec VW TDIs!

Not in North America (which is again behind the times as usual)

When you read this excellent explanation of what is occuring, in conjunction with the certified Volkswagen Specifications for their European engines and oils, you'll see why Jiffy Lube rules the scene in America (ie backwards!) and why European diesel engines and oils are so far ahead of what is available here:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/BaseOils/docs/icis.pdf

I don't know looks pretty fishy

Anyone know if a group I can pass those evaporation loss levels . . . hmmmmmmm

anyway thanks SP

Skypup, where are you getting this information? This is exactly what I like to read but I have no idea where it is available. The Volkswagen network in the United States seems to know nothing or is unwilling to exert the effort to enlighten people that want to know.

Thank you for posting - especially the spec for the ACEA B4-98.

10-4, this is difficult to get for sure!

My motto -> Don't Question Reality!!!

You can basically forget about getting hardcore information like this from just about anywhere in North America, unless you have some professional experience in the field, even then, quite often, many things are condidential and proprietory information wise.

The B4-98 specs are where to look for the future, remember, just about everything you read in North America is antiquated and backwards, attempting to play the game of catch up. Keep your eyes on what BP-Amoco, EuroShell, etc are all up to, they have the information you need, but usually it is NOT in English!

O.K., here is a link to Lubrizol's reference section. The ACEA oil specifications for passenger car diesel motor oils are here: http://www.lubrizol.com/referencelibrary/readyreference/6-OilClasses/aceapd98.htm
Happy Trails!

When in Doubt, go to the Source!

http://www.acea.be/acea/prod99bygroup.htm

http://www.acea.be/acea/GasEng3.htm

http://www.acea.be/acea/GasEng4.htm



[This message has been edited by SkyPup (edited February 28, 2001).]

"ACEA B4-98 — This is a new category for oils used in direct injection diesel engines requiring special quality oils.

This category includes a new engine test, specifically termed the "VW TDI ENGINE TEST."

This four-cylinder , 1.9liter direct- injection diesel engine is turbocharged and intercooled."

Hey, it DOES NOT GET ANY MORE SPECIFIC THAN THIS!!! lol

http://www.lubrizol.com/referencelibrary/readyreference/6-OilClasses/aceapd98.htm

http://www.infineum.com/information/lightduty.html

[This message has been edited by SkyPup (edited February 28, 2001).]

BTW, In case you are still wondering:

ACEA = Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles.

Interesting that the HTHS for all the gasoline engines remains at 3.5min, while all the TDI engines are LOWERED to 2.9-3.4? this looks like 0-20W oil levels?

TBill,

Here is some info on the VW 503/506 test matrix ....

Note that it is based on the ACEA "B4" classification, but also includes VW specific tests. VW 505 is based on the old CMCC PD-2 spec, which is superceded by ACEA B4.

These VW 503/506 oils are essentially thinner versions of the earlier VW 502/505 oils - in Europe most are 0w-30 grades.

TS

TBill,

I should add I think that VW is factory filling the 2002 TDI's with VW 506 oils, since they test out as 30wt's ....

I have not seen any VW 503/506 spec oils in the US or Canada, so VW has stuck with the VW 505 spec in the TDI owners manual for North America, even though they have moved beyond this in Europe.

TS

I have a 2001 115PS TDI. My owner's manual said I can only use VW 505 01. Do you think I can use VW 505 00?

This is the information that puts the lie to the "VW requires 5w40" nonsense.

VW requires oil that maintains a certain viscosity at operating temperatures. 5w40 oils will certainly do it, but some 5w30 and 0w30 oils do also. Mostly in Europe, where lots of oils are specifically formulated for high speed passenger car turbodiesels. But over here, there are a few. Amsoil Series 3000 and the Petro Canada 5w30 and 0w30 oils meet the TDI specifications. Quite easily, actually. But most of our North American xW-30 oils are made for gassers, and are too thin for TDIs. Hence VW's "5w40 recommendation." They know if you use 5w40, it'll be thick enough FOR SURE. Those of us who are willing to actually use our brains, and the information SkyPup provides, can open up other oil choices.

You want to use an oil that is "thick enough to do the job". Any thicker than that does you no good. The job of oil is to keep engine parts from touching each other directly. If an oil accomplishes that, using a thicker oil does you no good. You either have metal-to-metal contact, or you don't.

But thicker oil does have NEGATIVE effects. It doesn't lubricate as well when it's cold. The turbo is especially sensitive to this.

Ideally, you want oil that flows like water, yet protects the engine under extreme conditions. Amsoil Series 3000 does this. It'll handle ANY conditions a TDI can ever experience, from Arctic to Death Valley and everything in-between. Stock or hot-rodded. Trailer towing. Whatever.

No, I don't sell Amsoil. I just use it.

-mickey

If you use a top quality synthetic diesel oil, it will meet 505.01. In Europe, you have about a million options. There is a huge list of "VW TDI Approved" oils. It's been posted here before. Or you can email VWAG and ask for technical information.

-mickey

Fact is 99% of dumb American's use whatever crud Jiffy Lube dumps in the crank.

Most of it is as bad as the crud diesel fuel available too....

fwiw, here is some more info i found in a vw mag a few months ago or so..

There is simply no amount of boundary layer additization that can make up for oil thickness/viscosity to provide the cushioning that we need for our diesels.

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good point.

Fortunately for us, a "thick" 0w30 or 5w30 accomplishes that purpose nicely.

The "hammering" you refer to is vastly reduced in a TDI, as compared to "traditional" diesels. Pilot injection, extreme injection pressures, electronic controls, precisely designed and manufactured injector nozzles...even the fact that TDIs simply spin a lot faster that big diesels...all contribute to reduce the "hammering." As long as you use oil that meet's VW's specifications, as detailed in the charts above, it's not a concern.

So I stand by my statement. Using oil that is thicker than VW requires does you no good, and the relatively poor flow properties can do HARM, especially when the engine is cold.

I'm pretty sure VW took the "hammering" into consideration. They don't just guess. The specs mean something.

-mickey

godlike242: The "chart" you posted is a dumbed down version of the information SkyPup posted. You'll notice that Xw-30 oils are not included in your 505.00 list. That's because very few such oils in North America meet 505.00 viscosity requirements. Plenty do in Europe, however.

The viscosity requirements in 505.00 are based on "centistokes" at a certain temperature, not on arbitrary "viscosity indexes" that consumers read on the side of a bottle.

-mickey

I think the key point is the first sentence of the second full paragraph in that article:

"LUBRICATION PROBLEMS ARE ALMOST NEVER CAUSED BY THE OIL HAVING TOO LOW A VISCOSITY"

Anyone want to guess why all the VW/Audi, gas/diesel engines with flexible service intervals call for a 0w-30? I'd bet anyone with experience in gas engine oil analysis would know

TS

yes,, now go look at the ones that meet both american api ci-4 and acea b5 and the hd e5...

the ones that actually bothered to PASS the test that is..

then the ones that also pass JASSO asian specs..

why your at it,, then global dhd-1 which replaces all the above..

then go fine the ones that pass ALL the above..

then you separate the wheat from the chaff...

look at the test differences between acea b5 and e5.. whats tougher,, whats the only differences.. etc...

go to api, and find which oils current meet ci-4 and which weights of oils meet the ci-4... hmmm damn interesting,, even a$$hole$ have opinions,, but a$$hole$ dont pass ci-4... dang, 85 percent of the oils just got thrown out...

the very few oils that pass all the above ironically are the million mile oils, the most sold to the hd industry, the most sold in the world... wonder why...

most oil salesmen dont have a clue... they dont even know where there own oil bases come from.. it would actually be funny to see who provides most of the bases oil and additives...
yes most salesmen know more about shoes than oil.. but there are a very very few who actually bother to find out.. and you can tell.. they are the ones who dont have to call names and shout..

to them,, i bow.. thanks ted..

[ November 01, 2002, 15:30: Message edited by: TexasBill ]

TBill,

As R. Perot is fond of saying, "Here's the deal"

Within the SAE, xw-30 and xw-40 grades, there are really four distinct classes of oils.

xw-30 oils with viscosities ranging from 9.3-11.0 Cst, intended as fuel efficient oils for modern gas engines, API "SL" or ACEA "A5" oils

xw-30 oils with viscosities ranging from 11.0-12.5 Cst, intended for high performance, gas/diesel engine passenger cars, ACEA "A3/B4" oils

xw-40 oils with viscosities ranging from 12.5-14.5 Cst, also intended for high performance, gas/diesel engine passenger cars, ACEA "A3/B4" oils

xw-40 oils with viscosities ranging from 14.5-16.0 Cst, primarily intended for heavy duty, commercial diesel engines, API CI-4 or ACEA E5 oils

Originally posted by mickey:
godlike242: The "chart" you posted is a dumbed down version of the information SkyPup posted. You'll notice that Xw-30 oils are not included in your 505.00 list. That's because very few such oils in North America meet 505.00 viscosity requirements. Plenty do in Europe, however.

The viscosity requirements in 505.00 are based on "centistokes" at a certain temperature, not on arbitrary "viscosity indexes" that consumers read on the side of a bottle.

-mickey

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True.. It presented the ideas on which oils matched up with which engines in a different format even though it basically said the same thing as what SP posted.. It was just easier to read for people who just want to know which grade of oil, rather than looking at strings of numbers which are indeed important(don't get me wrong), but are not critical for joeaverage deciding on which oil to use. I made the wild assumption that anyone getting this far into this board(thread) has probably figured out which oil to use.

I wasn't trying to compete with anyone. This is just something i scanned in from a european mag i picked up when in London... I will try to dig out the mag to see where they sourced their info from, but i seem to think it was direct from VW. I just wish our cars had the variable maintenance setup(oem).

Oh well, the more info(even if it's the same), the better, right?

I'm just pissed that i did not get the next issue.

[ November 01, 2002, 16:35: Message edited by: godlike242 ]

I really can't afford a 150 dollars oil change at VW dealership here in Stuttgart Germany. Do you think the new Mobil 1 0W-40 would work for the PD motor?

2001GolfTDI,

The VW 505.01 spec contains specific requirments for the PD type engines, so I would stick to that. The VW 505.00 oils are intended for the older design TDI engine that is sold in the US and Canada - VW 505 does NOT include any testing in PD type, VW diesel engines. In fact, it does not include any testing in TDI engines of any type.

Without having very specific information about the VW 505.01 or VW 506.01 tests, I would not recommend using oils that don't meet these requirements. You could have problems with foaming/shearing or excessive valvetrain wear.

I would not assume that any synthetic diesel oil will meet the VW 505.01 spec - clearly that is not the case ....

Regarding "You want to use an oil that is "thick enough to do the job". Any thicker than that does you no good. The job of oil is to keep engine parts from touching each other directly. If an oil accomplishes that, using a thicker oil does you no good. You either have metal-to-metal contact, or you don't. " Indeed this is one aspect of a good diesel engine oil. However, a diesel engine oil needs to fulfill many other requirements in order to provide maximum life. One other very important aspect a diesel oil must provide is "cushioning". In a diesel engine when ignition occurs it is an 'explosion' rather than the softer 'burn' that takes place in a gasoline, ignition fired engine. The diesel's violent reaction causes a corresponding, immediate, high force to all bearing surfaces, including piston and connecting rods. Thus we need a lubricant that not only keeps metal away from metal in normal hydrodynamic running but with a thickness and viscosity that will provide adequate cushioning to help soften the violent explosion that takes place in a diesel engine with each power cycle. This is why diesel engines have to be built much stronger than a corresonding gasoline engine. This is why the diesel engine has much larger bearing surface areas, etc. AND why a diesel engine needs an engine oil with a thicker operational viscosity. And this is why the diesel engines in the U.S. progressed from a 30W to an operatonal 40W some years back. The additonal engine life that came with that transition to 40W was monumental. Engine life went from several hundred thousand miles to over a million miles.. There is simply no amount of boundary layer additization that can make up for oil thickness/viscosity to provide the cushioning that we need for our diesels.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

pup,, old chevron article.. but bout time you became enlighten..

yes the a4/b5 oils are lesser oils than the e5/ci-4 per the article..

yes the push to the lighter weight oils is soly due to pressure for fuel economy, and the fallout that comes with it... not for wear or any other reason but fuel economy and any benificial reductions in emissions that come with reduced fuel economy..

when the recommend 5w-20.. is for the manufactor's benifit,, and not a recommendation made for wear or the engine lasting the longest.. as the article pointed out...

trouble meeting cafe and emissions is driving the push... however the increases in wear have been minimal..

again.. i point out.. was it not odd that the 15w-40 meet the new wear tests first and foremost???

15w-40 is not a b3 rated oil becuase the very last test.. and the only test that 15w-40 cant meet... is the test wear the thinner oils have to have fuel economy increases of 2.5% over 15w-40...

and you cant be 2.5% better than yourself..

but if you go on to acea e5 tests.. you will see the same tests ran for longer periods and more serverly ran... and again,, the 15w-40s passed first.. the others had to be reformulated over and over to finally get their... so the e5 oils are technically all better that the b5 oils.. now go see who is rated e5 a 1998 spec by the way....... your getting closer.... pup... bout time you came into the 21ST century... go see who passed all the more severe tests since 1998 and who hasnt passed.. there is hope for the deaf, dumb and blind... and floridians... dont give up hope...

the facts are out there on all the websites for your purusal.. now you know some of what i knew last year... and the year before...

yea, i know,, you and al gore invented oil...

too bad you dont have all the papers that got dropped when texaco and chevron merged...

its 69 degrees today and we've not had to run the home a/c for two weeks now... but still have to fire it up when you get into your 120 degree car for a few minutes...