Tsi engines

Subjective. I would call it excessive, yes. People here often refer to the ALH as "slow", with its meager 90hp. Yet they can cruise along just fine at triple digit speeds, can move along just fine with traffic. That same platform in Europe got at least two engines that were only 75hp, the 1.9L SDI and the 1.6L gas engine.

I've driven nearly a half million miles in a car with only 52hp , and had one with 48hp, and I won't even tell you about all my rear engined dubs I have owned. They all did the job they needed to do.

Don't get me wrong, a powerful engine is a rush, no doubt, and I like the thrill as much or more than a lot of people. But I am also realistic and know that I can only go so fast, and only accelerate so fast, due to road conditions, traffic, laws, etc. I also realize that in certain cases, a more powerful engine is less stressed, which means it will be more durable, and can not be as inefficient as you'd think in comparison. But to talk to some people, you'd think that it simply is "impossible" to drive a car that doesn't have some impressive tire smoking power. Truck buyers are the worst, which is why we have all these tiny wang mouth breathers buying up big pickups like crazy. And most of them scoff at the thought of a 300hp V6 ( yet V8s from just a few years ago barely made 200hp). So what gives? What changed? Something in our water?

In the end, I stand by my claim that we (Americans) only get the engines that are on the higher end of the output scale in models that are sold elsewhere. Look it up, pick anything that is sold globally or at least in a significant market outside North America. They get manual transmissions, too.

Ford Transit:

Standard engine for us: 3.7L gas V6, optional engine 3.2L diesel I5 and a TWIN TURBO 3.5L gas V6. All automatic.
Other markets: gas and diesel (mostly diesel) 4 cyl engines starting at 2.0L displacement, and of course bolted to a proper manual gearbox. The gas V6s are JUST for us.

Fiat Doblo (sold here as the Ram Promaster City):

Standard engine for us, and the ONLY engine: 2.4L gas, bolted to (you guessed it) a slushbox.
Other markets get a choice of 1.3L, 1.4L, 1.6L, 2.0L gas and diesel engines... and of course, that wonderful manual transmission.

Ford is killing off the Focus for us, but we only got the big gas engines save for the 1.0L turbo I3. Other markets will not only continue to get the car, they also get choices of gas and diesel engines of sizes ranging from 1.5L to 2.0L.

Toyota Yaris:

When we could get it (we no longer can... we just get the Yaris iA, which is a reskinned Mazda):

US market: 1.5L gas engine. That's it.
Other markets: gas and diesel from 1.0L to 1.8L (yes, they DID get a more powerful version, but also several much LESS powerful). But while on the topic of Yaris, the Mazda supplied version has three engine choices globally, a 1.3L gas, 1.5L gas, and 1.5L diesel. Which ONE do you think we get? Yep, the biggest gas engine.

I drove to work today in an car which I feel has excessive power: BMW 335d. NA market only. And only with an automatic. It's a lovely car to drive, but I would much prefer a 2.0d with a manual transmission. Not available here, sadly, and the 328ds that followed the e90 platform are automatic only.

Of the 5 TDIs in my family only one is stock: My son's '02 Golf. I drove it to Wisconsin for him last summer and power was way more than adequate, despite the car being full of stuff and running the A/C for the entire trip. And at one TDIFest I marveled at how well BKMetz's 90 HP B4 Passat ran around at 80+ MPH with 4 not small people in the car.

A 1.6L TDI in my '15 would be fine with me. And part of why I like the '19 Golf TSI is because of the 1.4L displacement. Makes sense.

this thread made me smile...a thread about ****ty gas engines in a diesel forum where people who have owned one single unit argue with a specialist who sees hundreds of them over reliability...truly entertaining on a crisp Tuesday morning...
I might as well add my 2c and I'm only a hobbyist - I have no idea what VAG was thinking releasing the gas engines that they have past 2006...it is absolutely mesmerizing to see what they try to pass off as a well engineered product...here's my history so far:
- 2006 A4 2.0T Avant - follower issue, barely saved engine, swapped to diesel - car was great, engine was an absolute POS that should have never been released. Sold the engine to another user who (you guessed it) blew his up with a follower problem...he was on his second engine already
- 2006 A4 2.0T Sedan - bought with a swapped engine already, previous owner gave me the remains of the original engine - follower grenaded everything...it was almost too hard to go through the parts bin
- 2009 Tiguan 2.0T - rear man seal leak, replaced at a shop with an original VW rear main seal, didn't even make it back to the house before it leaked again - had to spend another 8hrs to take it back apart and replace again
- 2009 Tiguan 2.0T - same thing - in the shop right now
- 2009 A4 2.0T - bought for a steal because the previous owner lost the SECOND engine the car already had...first engine failed because the first chain tensioner fell apart, the owner replaced it with a 2012 motor with the updated tensioner only to have his stretched chain skip a tooth...
- I am now on my third Tiguan and am praying the weather gets better before the tensioner decides to **** itself so I can do the chain before it takes out the engine
- currently on the local car site there are at least 10+ pristine vehicles with blown gasser engines of the exact same denomination - anything from Passats, A4s, Tiguans, Golfs you name it...
Don't get me wrong - this works very well for me because I can pick up a "like new" A4 that cost the original owner upwards of $50k for like $2k...but I will NEVER buy a new VAG vehicle so I can watch my money burn...
somebody asked what you can buy that won't fail? a Toyota Corolla...my father in law is on his 10th year with his clunker and has so far just changed oil and brakes...that's it...
it is embarrassing for manufacturers like Mercedes, BMW and VW who built their reputations on reliability and "German engineering" to keep pushing vehicles out that cost almost twice as much as their cheaper counterparts and blow engines before the warranties are over...

Damn, f'n Jeep is looking better and better.

RabbitGTI said:

Damn, f'n Jeep is looking better and better.

Click to expand...

Half million mile ALH is even better. And cheaper.

I think it's a good rule for any vehicle you want to keep for a while to buy one where the engine and, if possible, the transmission, is made by the same company who assembled the car. I think the Jeep is a combination of Jeep/Fiat/Alfa parts. Not sure how parts availability will look in a few years. Of course, based on the post above on TSI engines, it's not a guarantee of a durable engine.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think it's a good rule for any vehicle you want to keep for a while to buy one where the engine and, if possible, the transmission, is made by the same company who assembled the car. I think the Jeep is a combination of Jeep/Fiat/Alfa parts. Not sure how parts availability will look in a few years. Of course, based on the post above on TSI engines, it's not a guarantee of a durable engine.

Click to expand...

Compass 2.4 is a "world" engine meaning it has the drippings of many companies all stirred together. Then they bolted an Italian fuel injection system on the top. What could go wrong with that?

The 2.4L is a joint venture between Hyundai, Chrysler (when under MB control) and Mitsubishi. Done under the Global Alliance by Hyundai, Chrysler "owns" it now. It is mostly the same engine Hyundai/Kia called the Theta engine.

HMC now builds its successor, the Theta II, Mitsubishi... who knows... who cares, Renault just took them over. Chrysler still builds the HMC designed early version, but Fiat put their twist on it with their Multi-Air system. I assume Fiat kept it because they did not have a larger displacement 4 cyl in house they could use. No idea.

Fiat is also still building the Charger/Challenger/300 which are based on an old MB platform. The Jeep GC, Dodge Durango, are also shared with an MB platform. Despite them going their separate ways years ago. Again, it would seem Fiat has nothing in house to replace them, so...

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think it's a good rule for any vehicle you want to keep for a while to buy one where the engine and, if possible, the transmission, is made by the same company who assembled the car. I think the Jeep is a combination of Jeep/Fiat/Alfa parts.

Click to expand...

LOL...

Jeep = Just Empty Every Parts bin

My '92 XJ is like a jar of Heinz pickles ("57 varieties"):

AMC engine (with Chrysler ECU)
Toyota Transmission
U.S. Front Axle/transfer case (Dana/New Venture Gear, respectively)
Chrysler rear axle
GM (Saginaw) Steering system (column/box)
Unibody superstructure by AMC/Renault (joint CAD effort)

And you know what? Put that all together and it worked so well Jeep sold 2.8 million of the things over 18 model years.

So it is possible to combine parts from multiple manufacturers and have it work - in fact, AMC made a point of never designing things in-house when they could just "buy off the shelf".

Speaking from my experience with old AMC era CJs: AMC = All Makes Combined. My '80 CJ5 had a GM engine, Pontiac specifically, bolted to a Ford 4sp transmission (AMC did provide the bellhousing). One axle was Dana, the other was AMC's. Everything that made the engine tick was GM, as well as the alternator and starter. It had a mish-mash of SAE and Metric fasteners, Torx, Allen, you name it, it had it.

Really though the modern cars are no better. They outsource so many things now, including whole cars. My friends at Toyota dealers are THRILLED to get to work on BMWs. They already have to deal with Subaru and Mazda, I'm sure they'll adapt, but it won't be a happy time for them.

Hmmm

I use standard on everything my dad and grandpa owned.

I use metric on everything else.

That thought can go on forever.


Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

jason_ said:

Hmmm

I use standard on everything my dad and grandpa owned.

I use metric on everything else.

That thought can go on forever.


Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Yep - my Jeep's got standard, metric, torx, triple-square, etc. too - "Just Empty Every Parts bin" applies to hardware as well.

Oilhammer - like the "All Makes Combined" bit - hadn't heard that one before.

Before Renault bought out AMC, they had been going through a lot of financial problems. So buying from other companies, and going for "the cheapest bidder" was probably all they could do. Issue was, GM/Ford/Chrysler were making some real junky garbage by then. And ChryCo went bankrupt in '80. I love how GM sold AMC the Buick V6, only to buy it back when the gas crunch hit, LMAO, then continued to refine it and sell it up until just a few years ago!

Which led Jeep to buy the smaller 60 degree V6 from GM, and ultimately deciding to revamp their own inline 6, putting THAT back into production, which went away not all that long ago either.

Rover got the Buick V8, but they wouldn't give that back... or GM didn't want it back...

At least all those engines were simple, even if not very refined or powerful for their size. Something that is lacking in many (most) newer vehicles. Simplicity.

Ah yes, the infamous 2.8L V6 - GM sold Jeep all the "seconds", seems like - the Jeep ones always seemed to have problems like oil leaks and such while they seemed to have a better rep in the S10s.

I'll stick with my 4.0L I-6 - probably one of the few gas motors that can legitimately give the ALH or the legendary mopar slant-6 a run for their money in the longevity department.

Rob Mayercik said:

I'll stick with my 4.0L I-6 - probably one of the few gas motors that can legitimately give the ALH or the legendary mopar slant-6 a run for their money in the longevity department.

Click to expand...

My dad loved convertibles, a preference I did not inherit. And he had a lot of them when I was a kid. One was a '64 Rambler American 440. 232 cubic inch inline six. Basically the same engine that Jeep was using decades later. I suspect the tooling was amortized a while ago. Kind of like the Briggs and Stratton lawnmower engine.

That was a good engine, as was the 4 cyl version of it (which got EFI like the 6, but never got destroked, and stayed 2.5L). Obviously not as powerful, but being mostly the same design, just as durable if cared for.

The later OBD2 era engines though have lots of problems with misfires due to extra sensitive software that becomes TOO sensitive as the engine ages. So you can drive them all over, you would swear they run fine, but pull up the misfire counter and sure enough, there they are, with the DTC(s) and MIL soon to follow. Lots of half hearted attempts to fix this by ChryCo. Insulating the injectors from heat transfer was a popular one. Then software updates. Then an intake induction decarb service. Several TSBs regarding the dreaded Jeep misfires. But in the end, it is the valves themselves. They can stop turning in their guides, and cause irregular carbon build up, which causes cold start misfires.

Tough sell to tell someone their 150k mile engine, that "runs great", needs a valve job because the warning light is on. But it happens. We've done a bunch of them.

This is typical of an old design that has been tweaked to run "cleaner". They crank the operating temps up, and despite the fact that the 4.0L (and the 2.5L, which ended production a couple years earlier) still specified 10w30, lots of them mistakingly got 5w30 or even 5w20 which towards the end of their production run was far more common. They have no tolerance for that. I still catch techs here doing that.

Hmm, never knew the 4.0 wouldn't tolerate 5w- oils too well. Good to know. 255K miles on mine, never a drop of synth - dino 10w30 all its life.

I am aware of the "vapor lock" TSB on the later models, and I've even heard of guys retrofitting the 6-cyl coil from a V10 Viper to replace the coil rail on last of the 4.0s. Makes me glad I'm running OBD-1 with distributor.

Oilhammer:

Lets be real here. How bad is the rear main seal issue? Have a friend looking at some 1.8 and 2.0T's and I am trying to guide him away from them.

Pretty common. Common enough that they made an improved version a few years back, in an attempt I assume to make them more robust (they still blow), and the aftermarket has a completely redesigned rear sealing flange you can install. But this is more of a symptom of the real problem of the crankcase pressure regulator valve sticking causing a direct link to the intake manifold and the crankcase... so when the turbo comes on boost, instead of diverting the crankcase vapors back to the inlet side of the turbo air pipe (like the TDIs always are), it stays stuck full on to the tube running to the manifold. Which causes the whole crankcase to get boosted, and it finds the weakest link to blow out, which is always the rear main seal.

Some GM engines do the same thing, but their pressure regulation is done either in the intake manifold itself or in the valve cover. But usually the intake version (the horrid 1.4L turbo engine, used in the Trax, Encore, Cruze, Sonic) just sucks the little valve out of the intake and eats it. So they get a new intake manifold, but the engine itself is OK, although sometimes the valve cover also needs to be replaced. The non-turbo 2 .4L (previous Equinox, Malibu, etc.) just has the valve cover integral pressure regulator stick solid, and those blow the rear main seals... and they do so with gusto... they'll empty the crankcase all down the bottom of the car in about one minute... we replace lots of those engines from this.

Oddly enough, the VAG later 2.5L I5s do the same thing, but they just break the end of the valve cover integral pressure valve off, so they leak oil right there... no engine damage at all. Just a leak and a new valve cover and they are fixed.

All of these items in question are plastic with built in rubber valves, and are all made by either Hengst or Mann+Hummel. So I do think the Germans have some issue with the materials they are using.

BMWs have a similar problem, but they have a cold weather kit that has a heated pressure relief valve.. otherwise they crack their plastic valve covers and barf oil all over the exhaust and catch fire. Pretty cool. Ultimate driving machine, that'll get your heart pumping!

Keep in mind though, the EA888's rear main seal can fail and not leak much. Because once it comes apart, the engine will be sucking air INTO the crankcase through the breach. They usually come in here running poorly, MIL on, with false air related DTCs (lean, incorrect idle speed, etc.). Basically running the same way they would if the oil cap was left off. When you shut the engine off, then sometimes a little drip of oil will come out of the bellhousing after it sits for a minute. In some cases, we can catch the failed pressure regulator valve in the act. The engine will be running bad, and you can barely remove the oil fill cap at idle, because the vacuum is so strong on the engine it is sucking the cap tight to the engine. In those cases, the rear main seal is still holding. But those cases are pretty rare. Usually they have already blown by the time they get here.

^^^ would a catch can eliminate the over pressurization of the crankcase and prevent this problem?

I've read a couple articles about BMWs catching fire in people's garages. I thought it was a catalytic converter issue. Maybe that's what ignites the oil.

RabbitGTI said:

^^^ would a catch can eliminate the over pressurization of the crankcase and prevent this problem?

Click to expand...

No. You'd have to eliminate the valve atop the engine.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I've read a couple articles about BMWs catching fire in people's garages. I thought it was a catalytic converter issue. Maybe that's what ignites the oil.

Click to expand...

That is exactly it. The valve cover cracks down low in the back, which is way up under the cowl on the modern cars, as the inline 6 is so long. The engine is leaned over to that side, so the oil drips right down on to the exhaust, which has the warmup cats integral with the manifolds or right after them. Motor oil has to be pretty hot to ignite, but once it does light off, it's game over. It burns so hot and there is SO MUCH plastic under the hoods that it goes from bad to worse very quickly.

OH
I wish you would post a list of reliable drive trains across all brands for the last 10yrs. Someday, I may need another car. From what I am reading, sacrificing FE for reliability may be prudent?

truman said:

OH
I wish you would post a list of reliable drive trains across all brands for the last 10yrs. Someday, I may need another car. From what I am reading, sacrificing FE for reliability may be prudent?

Click to expand...

Well that is a loaded request, and not all definitions of reliable are the same. It is also somewhat open ended. My old Mazda B2000 was VERY reliable. But that reliability also included reliably consuming a quart of oil every 100 miles. However, it remained reliable and without breakdown right up to 404k miles when a deer impact decided its reliability run was over. Most people blew those engines up LONG before that, because they ran them out of oil. Given the fact that my father taught me the forgotten art of dipstick reading when I was still playing with Tonka and Lego, I have never had a problem with this. So is the reliability with ME or the engine?

Honda's V6 engines are fantastic. Incredibly good. But the automatic transmissions that they get bolted to as optional (Accord) are standard (everything else) are hit and miss. Now they are using ZF automatics behind them. Will that be better or worse? Who knows.

I really like the Challenger. I think it is the best "retro" car ever done, even though its Mercedes-Benz based underpinnings have zero in common with the old Mopar muscle A body cars or whatever they were. But of the two current engine choices, only one is worth a darn. The Hemi V8. Actually a pretty darn good engine. I've never seen anything at all break on those, including all the countless trucks you see running around with them. The Pentastar V6 is a turd. Problems galore with those. The old 3.5L V6 in the earlier Challengers was fine... pretty good actually. But the transmissions in these are all over the place. Some get an MB automatic, those are fine if cared for properly. Some get a ChryCo unit, which is a crap shoot. Now they too use ZF. How will those be? Some models you can get a 6sp Tremec manual gearbox.

I think much of it depends on your expectations and tolerance. All the old "2.slo" VAG engines were pretty good. This includes both the early type ABA in the A3 and B4 cars, as well as the late type in the A4 cars, starting with the AEG, and saw a revival shortly in the NCS Jetta for a few years. But some use oil... especially the AEG. Keep it full, it's fine. Run it dry, it locks up. However, many of these cars, especially in the Cabrio, got cursed with being bolted to the 096/01M transmission. The 02A/02J manuals are fine. Night and day difference. Reliability literally goes from a 1 to a 9 on a scale of 10 solely depending on if that $1000 option box to not shift yourself is checked. But say you scored a new 2004 2.slo Jetta GL manual. Powertrain (BEV+02J) is pretty much bulletproof. But people get cheap, neglectful, and before long, the car is a rolling hunk of crap. I cannot tell you how many of those cars I've seen.

Also, a reliable powertrain is only part of the equation. A stick shift 2000 Dodge Ram with the Cummins engine is VERY reliable. But the rest of the truck is pretty craptastic. HVAC is junk. The steering, suspension, axles, ball joints, and of course the BODY that seems to be made of compressed rust, falls to pieces LONG before the engine. Still reliable?

It is always easier to be retrospective on things like this. Far easier than trying to call on clairvoyance for the near future.

A mechanic's perspective is always that everything is worse than it actually is ... because they only EVER see the ones that break. What you don't know, is whether there are 10, or 100, or 1000, that didn't break, for every one that did break.

Let's also keep in mind that from the Consumer Reports perspective, historically, VWs have been terrible cars. I've gone past 400,000 km on two of them. Did the occasional thing go wrong? Sure.

GoFaster said:

A mechanic's perspective is always that everything is worse than it actually is ... because they only EVER see the ones that break. What you don't know, is whether there are 10, or 100, or 1000, that didn't break, for everyone that did break.

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Man, does that remind me when I first joined this forum after I purchased new a 2009 JSW. In reading through the threads here I thought I just bought the worst car in the world. Everybody was looking for repair advice and many complaining about how crummy their VW TDI reliability was both new and old. As I learned over time most people post on forums to complain about problems and not post about all the good stuff. Yes many here do use the phrase "200k " trouble free miles but, many just lead you to believe your car is junk because of the problem they personally had only when they had them as opposed to when they did not That is starting to happen all over again with the sale of these buy back cars that have been sitting for a couple of years and are now being resold. Many think when they buy one of these as a CPO they are getting a brand new car that was never abused or neglected plus in no way shape or form is it good to store a car in a parking lot without any attention for several years. There are bound to be problems and that should be realized before buying. I am so glad took the restitution and kept my car as opposed to ditching it with the buyback and now looking at these cars that were bought back and available for sale now. The CR bashing will begin again along with DSG transmissions are no good and a money pit. Many times some of the INDI mechanics will also voice their disdain for the newer cars but they have always done that as far back as the first IDI 50 hp Rabbit diesel. And the first catalytic converter installed on a new car. Change is never good eh?

Yeah, internet forums (including this one) have a related issue ... lots of people start digging around on the internet for a solution when they have a problem, but few are inclined to do so who don't have a problem, even if the number who don't have a problem far outnumber those who do.

Internet forums can be useful for gleaning the *type* of problems that crop up, but not their relative frequency.

Re the comments above concerning the Chrysler Pentastars ... FCA has built 12 million of those and counting. It is a certainty that some of them will have had problems. (Mine has been fine)

GoFaster said:

Yeah, internet forums (including this one) have a related issue ... lots of people start digging around on the internet for a solution when they have a problem, but few are inclined to do so who don't have a problem, even if the number who don't have a problem far outnumber those who do.

Internet forums can be useful for gleaning the *type* of problems that crop up, but not their relative frequency.

Re the comments above concerning the Chrysler Pentastars ... FCA has built 12 million of those and counting. It is a certainty that some of them will have had problems. (Mine has been fine)

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Well said. When I joined..........not as a guest lurker as I see at the bottom of our posts. I wanted to know about my new purchase and what to do to keep it running strong. Read a lot of BS but learned everything I needed to know as a new TDI owner. You have to sift through the BS and challenge those that produce it. Thank-you all for that. No matter what happens to my current TDI I will not post negative quotes from my mechanic...that stuff is between him or her and me.

The only people who know about relative and actual frequency of problems are the manufacturers and they ain't talking.