Interview with VW: VW's Diesel Strategy

MarcusW

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Although diesel here in Europe is mainstream, I found this rather interesting as VW is clearly cementing its commitment to diesel in the States.

Volkswagen’s U.S. Diesel Strategy: An Interview with Doug Skorupski


by Jonathan Spira

Volkswagen has offered diesel-powered vehicles in the U.S. for decades and in the last few years it has offered TDI engines in more models than ever before. Now the U.S. diesel marketplace is heating up – and doing so quickly. We sat down with Doug Skorupski, the Alternate Fuels Technical Strategy Manager at Volkswagen of America to see what we can find out about the future of diesel at Volkswagen.
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No More Buffalo

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Nice interview.

The most interesting bit:

We are not concerned about biodiesel blends and will be able to share information about this in the near future.
Sounds like the B5 restriction might be getting eased?
 

tditom

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We sat down with Doug Skorupski, the Alternate Fuels Technical Strategy Manager at Volkswagen of America to see what we can find out about the future of diesel at Volkswagen.
Interesting comments:
Doug Skorupski said:
... I love reading what people say in online forums about their cars.
Doug- if you see this, can you tell us what VW knows about the root cause of the HPFP issue, and what you are planning on doing for your current customer base in terms of recall or extended warranty? The cost of the repair is way too high to have hanging over our heads!!

Doug Skorupski said:
We are not concerned about biodiesel blends and will be able to share information about this in the near future.
VERY interested in what you can tell us about this!! As you know, some states are making biodiesel content higher and higher, and the federal government just issued a directive to significantly increase the biodiesel production in this country. It will only get harder and harder for modern diesel owners to find fuel at < 5% biodiesel.

Thanks for the article!
 

JBell

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Doug- The cost of the repair is way too high to have hanging over our heads!!
We may be dumping the Jetta because of this. It's completely unacceptable to be sucking up an $8,000 repair bill when most did nothing to cause it.
 

fordt

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Bring the TDI Tiguan over here, you idjits!!! I don't think you're reading ANY forums, otherwise you'd know to do this. I reckon when you start losing diesel business to the Mazda CX5 and the BMW X1, maybe then you'll figure it out!
 

BeetleGo

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I think we're going to see more flexibility with biodiesel. VW know how to do this; they're rolling this out slowly (but surely!)
 

ssamalin

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How many have actually paid for that out of pocket?
Compare VW to Toyota. Toyota recalls millions of it's cars for defects. That to me isn't a sign of it's reliability problems, rather it tells me it is reliable. Compare that to VW silence on defects and only those customers who are lucky enough to have studied up here escape felony sized victimization. VW will never be a player with it's reliability problems. It does have the technology though. Maybe the 2012 Passat and the MKVIIs don't have major defects. Maybe it's strategy is to gain a foothold with the new cars and then announce trade in deals for it's legacy lemons. And cows fly too.
 

kjclow

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Compare VW to Toyota. Toyota recalls millions of it's cars for defects. That to me isn't a sign of it's reliability problems, rather it tells me it is reliable. Compare that to VW silence on defects and only those customers who are lucky enough to have studied up here escape felony sized victimization. VW will never be a player with it's reliability problems. It does have the technology though. Maybe the 2012 Passat and the MKVIIs don't have major defects. Maybe it's strategy is to gain a foothold with the new cars and then announce trade in deals for it's legacy lemons. And cows fly too.
Toyota may make lots of recalls but the whole issue over the gas pedals and Toyota dragging their feet to do anything cost them dearly. Both in fines to the NHTSA and lost sales.

Bring the TDI Tiguan over here, you idjits!!! I don't think you're reading ANY forums, otherwise you'd know to do this. I reckon when you start losing diesel business to the Mazda CX5 and the BMW X1, maybe then you'll figure it out!
I would have to consider going back to a SUV if they offere a diesel in the Tiguan. I still question the reluctance to offer a North American built diesel Amarok too.
 

coolvdub

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Interesting article, thanks for sharing it.

Now if the typical American buyer was able understand the difference between a hybrid and a diesel and where each type of vehicle is best suited things would be great.

Now VW needs to expand the diesel choices to not be so limited in North America and let us choose what we need.

I do like the fact that the article addressed where a diesel shines mileage wise, if you can read between the lines. I feel a lot of hybrid owners don't understand due diligence when it comes to where a hybrid is most efficient. It amazes me when I see hybrids on the hiways blowing by everbody else. If they understood, I feel they would be driving more conservatively on the hiways and picking up the savings in town. Just my .02 cents.

Don
 
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DickSilver

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Presently, VW appears to be riding the wave of enthusiasm for TDIs, and they are selling TDIs now as premium models. I wanted a Golf this year. Golf TDI models start at $25K and go up. Golf gassers start at less than $20K. A rough calculation said to me that it would be over 150,000 miles to save the cost difference in fuel consumed. Then I also could see that the TDI requires a timing belt replacement at 80 to 100 K miles, whereas the 2.5 litre gasser uses a timing chain and avoids the roughly $1000 belt cost.

Bottom line: I bought a 2.5 litre gasser Golf because of lower cost.
 

kjclow

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They are not necessairily selling the TID as a premium but rather adding more features to help ease the burden of the increased engine and emmisions costs. Very similar to what others are doing with hybrids.
 

rmd0311

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Presently, VW appears to be riding the wave of enthusiasm for TDIs, and they are selling TDIs now as premium models. I wanted a Golf this year. Golf TDI models start at $25K and go up. Golf gassers start at less than $20K. A rough calculation said to me that it would be over 150,000 miles to save the cost difference in fuel consumed. Then I also could see that the TDI requires a timing belt replacement at 80 to 100 K miles, whereas the 2.5 litre gasser uses a timing chain and avoids the roughly $1000 belt cost.

Bottom line: I bought a 2.5 litre gasser Golf because of lower cost.
That's a very general assumption based on trim level. A Passat SE Gasser runs $25,045 retail, while the same TDI is $26225 retail. It 's not fair to compare the bottom edges of the car, to one that is mid-level with a plethora of other features.
 

DickSilver

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That's a very general assumption based on trim level. A Passat SE Gasser runs $25,045 retail, while the same TDI is $26225 retail. It 's not fair to compare the bottom edges of the car, to one that is mid-level with a plethora of other features.
Acknowledged for the Passat. I was shopping specifically for the Golf, a smaller car. (Actually, what I really wanted was a Polo, but VW persists keeping that one for other countries...)
 

APT

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I feel a lot of hybrid owners don't understand due diligence when it comes to where a hybrid is most efficient. It amazes me when I see hybrids on the hiways blowing by everbody else. If they understood, I feel they would be driving more conservatively on the hiways and picking up the savings in town. Just my .02 cents.
Gas electric hybrids do well on the highway too, mainly from their very small engines, low rolling resistance tires, and aerodynamic enhancements over traditional vehicles.

It seems like many VW owners like to tout highway fuel economy benefit of diesels over hybrids, but I don't see in the real world on Fuelly. Most hybrids cannot compete with the performance and efficiency of a turbo diesel, though.
 

TDI smile

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Bring the TDI Tiguan over here.........................!
Was 2 weeks in the Old Country and my Rental was a TDI Tiguan.
2.0 TDI 4motion. Drove super and on the "empty"? Autobahn I hit one time 187 km/h. Was impressed with the fit and finish. Fuel consumption was between 5.1 and 7.8 ltr/100. No driving noise. Door and windows let no noise get inside. But the Seats were too short and too hard. I do not know, if I would buy one here. Like my 2002 GOLF a lot more...................:cool:
 

wxman

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Gas electric hybrids do well on the highway too, mainly from their very small engines, low rolling resistance tires, and aerodynamic enhancements over traditional vehicles.

It seems like many VW owners like to tout highway fuel economy benefit of diesels over hybrids, but I don't see in the real world on Fuelly. Most hybrids cannot compete with the performance and efficiency of a turbo diesel, though.
I'm not sure you can legitimately reach that conclusion.

First, I don't think that highway mileage can be specifically determined on Fuelly, can it?

Second, the EPA highway mileage for the 3 examples of diesel and hybrid offered in the same vehicle platform (2 actually since the VW Touareg and the Porsche Cayanne are essentially twins) shows that the diesel versions' highway mileage is significantly better than the hybrid versions', 29 mpg and 24 mpg for the VW/Porsche diesel and hybrid versions respectively, and 31 mpg and 25 mpg for the diesel and hybrid versions of the MB S-class vehicle. The highway mileage is actually nearly 10% better even if you take the higher energy content of diesel fuel into account. Granted, the VW/Porsche hybrids are higher performance than the diesel versions, but in the case of the MB S-class, the diesel actually has slightly better performance than the hybrid according to the manufacturer (7.0 sec vs. 7.2 sec 0-60 mph for the diesel and hybrid, respectively).

Third, the Prius is usually used as the example of the hybrid getting better highway fuel mileage than diesels (usually VW TDIs), which may be true. However, the Prius' Cd is among the best, if not the best, of any car currently in production. If my calculations are correct, the Gen III Prius has an effective frontal area of 924.8 in^2, while the current generation of Golf has an effective frontal area of 1220.65 in^2 (taking the Cd into account). That's a 30.6% larger effective frontal area for the Golf, so it's pushing more air down the road at highway speeds. I would be interested to see what a TDI engine would do in a Prius car body, even with a DSG transmission.

In my opinion, you need to compare diesel and hybrid technology in the same vehicle because too many other variables are introduced in comparing the technologies in different vehicles.
 

kjclow

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In my opinion, you need to compare diesel and hybrid technology in the same vehicle because too many other variables are introduced in comparing the technologies in different vehicles.
So we wait for the Jetta hybrid to hit the lots...
 

RNDDUDE

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wxman has it right. Until such time (and it appears it might partially happen in the mk7 platform) as a manufacturer offers a base model/body car with all powertrain options (gas, diesel, gas/electric hybrid, diesel/electric hybrid, plug-in electric), such that the only significant variable IS the powertrain, comparisons will be apples-to-oranges.
 

wxman

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So we wait for the Jetta hybrid to hit the lots...
Yes, in the same body style.

We can also compare a few European diesels and hybrids in the same vehicles...


BMW ActiveHybrid 3 - 6.4 l/100 km "extra-urban"
BMW 330d - 4.3 l/100 km "extra-urban"

BMW ActiveHybrid 5 - 6.7 l/100 km "extra-urban"
BMW 535d - 4.8 l/100 km "extra-urban"


The 535d also has lower certified highway fuel consumption than the 2013 Lexus GS 450h (4.8 l/100 km vs 5.5 l/100 km) despite a better Cd for the Lexus (0.27 vs. 0.28).
 

APT

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I think we agree. Isn't a low cd enhanced aerodynamics? Low front air dams, smooth underbody panels, even the shape. And the Prius engine is tiny, which is all that is needed to maintain speed on the highway.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
You want to get some idea of what a diesel can do in place of a hybrid in the same car check out the guy that installed the TDI engine in the first gen Insight. :D

Also, compare a Prius to a turbodiesel Yaris.

Hybrids are far better suited to stop-n-go driving, and that isn't likely to change.

Hybrids and diesels both address fuel consumption, they just do it from different angles... but both succeed. Your type of driving and what you choose to drive will be the determining factor. My boss has driven Priuses for years (he's on his 4th one). He averages about 45 MPG without doing anything silly. My ALH Golf, which is bigger, faster, and heavier, and driven at speeds in excess of 80 MPH daily, gets 50+. It also doesn't feel like a toy and I can actually fit in it and not want to poke my eyes out when I drive it. However, I make no excuses, the Golf does cost me more to operate. It has higher PM costs, the fuel cost difference over gasoline makes the 5 MPG advantage a wash. However I cannot afford to just go buy a new car every 3 years, so in the end we probably come out pretty close to even on costs... BUT I am driving a MUCH nicer car the whole time. :cool:

I think in general, the move to a more efficient choice of vehicle even if it is 'just' a more modest car like a 30 MPG Accord from some 15 MPG SUV pig is a good thing. And if some folks want to go all the way to something like a Prius instead of a TDI that is fine, too.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I think we agree. Isn't a low cd enhanced aerodynamics? Low front air dams, smooth underbody panels, even the shape. And the Prius engine is tiny, which is all that is needed to maintain speed on the highway.
The current Prius has an engine that is the same size as a regular Civic, larger than a base Versa (and equal to a regular Versa), larger than an Accent/Rio, as well as several other small cars.

Many automobiles around the world get smaller engine options (you can still get a 1.6L engine, and even a 1.4L, in the Golf). I think one reason the Prius seems so frugal to Americans is because we don't get as many other options here as are available elsewhere. I wonder how many $25k 45 MPG Priuses Toyota would sell here if they had to share the showroom floor with a $15k turbodiesel Yaris that gets 65 MPG? Probably not as many. All relative.
 

RNDDUDE

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Oilhammer....so true. It's frustrating that we are so choice limited here when there ARE frugal autos beng made/sole elsewhere.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
A lot of it is probably because fuel is still so cheap here, Americans are largely uninformed, and because inefficient vehicles can still be cheap to build and sell, so they seem to be a better buy on the surface to many folks who struggle with elementary math.

This is why I always get so frustrated with Volkswagen, as they stand in a very unique position in this market with regards to the TDI. Nobody else really has anything that compares. So if you want a nice vehicle, with nice manners and good driveability, that is ALSO frugal on fuel, the TDI stands alone. So you'd think that they (Volkswagen) would be working even harder to not only get more TDI choices here, but to flaunt them even more than they already do. And where are the diesel Audis? Come on, a Q7 and a strictly-equipped A3 is all we get! May not be for me, but I have to think some buyers would love that sleek A5 with a TDI under the hood! The poor Tiggy may as well been stillborn, because it is floundering here and I think a TDI engine option would give it a trump card its competitors simply do not have.

I had to chuckle at the line in the article about "Volkswagen selling diesels here for decades". I guess they forgot all the years we either only had ONE model available, or NO models available AT ALL with a diesel engine option. More like "we've been getting shafted on diesels for decades".
 
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kjclow

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We now also have to face the ultra restrictive emmissions requrements. I have to wonder how some of those more frugal diesels would perform under the current restrictions.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
True enough, but Euro NOx standards are getting pretty tight, too. Not sure what the exact differences are right now.
 

kjclow

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I wonder how many $25k 45 MPG Priuses Toyota would sell here if they had to share the showroom floor with a $15k turbodiesel Yaris that gets 65 MPG? Probably not as many. All relative.
You'd have to compare it to a diesel corolla or matrix. The yaris sales would still be handicaped because it is a subcompact.
 
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