Cylinder head swirl and flow data.

MarkoP

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
2.0 BKD 140hp
I have had luck with MB CDI heads when I have not removed valve masking from combustion chamber, but I have not yet ported any common rail heads to see ow similar they are.
Basically I just corrected runer velocity issues, so that it does not get "choked" at higher rpm and tried to improve swirl as I could.
Owner had some BIG nozzles which he could not use before head work as he said it looked like rubber pile was burning behind car =)
but after cleaning the runners there was only slight gray haze.

usually I just try to match runner cfm and cross section area to engine demand and leave it there even if I know there would be more CFM gains by going bigger.
Engine size, rpm and volumetric efficiency specify how much air engine can swallow and even if head flows twice as much, engine just does not take more in. Though it does not harm to have more flow, but it certainly does harm to have too much runner area, or it also depends of valve events.
with big runners, due low flow speed / mass inertia / ramming, its impossible to get good VE%.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I have done some more work on non-TDI-related cylinder heads in the last little while.

I have taken apart the engine that I did the simulation work on, and implemented the reduced runner diameter. I have test-run the engine, but not test-ridden it, that will have to wait for better weather. It took a fair bit of epoxy to get there.

I'm working on another engine that is a much more high-performance engine from original equipment (Kawasaki ZX10R). This is a 4 valve per cylinder DOHC engine. It has very good CNC-machined ports as original equipment. Upon crunching some numbers, I have established that based on the calculation given in post #107, the Mach number at the minimum cross-sectional area in the port is around 0.6 at the peak-power RPM and the peak piston speed. Seeing that this is in a good range, the only thing I've done was to blend the entrance from the throttle body into the port ... and I've done it by adding epoxy to the head, not by increasing the diameter of the adapter.

If the RPM of the engine is fixed then ports that are a little too big seem to kill power quicker than ports that are a little too small ...

If you plug in the formula at post #38 to a TDI engine's bore, stroke, and target peak-power RPM (4000) with a target Mach number of 0.6 then the target runner diameter is only 25mm, and if you don't want excessive losses from velocity speeding up (through the minimum cross-section) then slowing down (into the port above the valve) then speeding up (through the valve curtain area) then slowing down again (into the cylinder) that cross-sectional area has to extend all the way to the valve seat. The last little bit needs to be a slightly bigger diameter to account for the valve stem and the guide.
 
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Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
All of this seems to be focused on the intake side of things - does any of it matter much on the exhaust? I'm assuming that swirl/tumble/etc are of little/no concern on the exhaust side of things and that flow is more important, but not sure.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
There is so much pressure in the cylinder trying to escape, that the exhaust doesn't matter so much, as long as it lets the cylinder blow down pressure quickly enough. On a naturally-aspirated engine that has positive (normal) valve overlap, the tuning is important on the exhaust side. But even there, it's easy to lose power with header pipes that are too big.
 

MarkoP

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
2.0 BKD 140hp
I'm working on another engine that is a much more high-performance engine from original equipment (Kawasaki ZX10R). This is a 4 valve per cylinder DOHC engine. It has very good CNC-machined ports as original equipment. Upon crunching some numbers, I have established that based on the calculation given in post #107, the Mach number at the minimum cross-sectional area in the port is around 0.6 at the peak-power RPM and the peak piston speed. Seeing that this is in a good range, the only thing I've done was to blend the entrance from the throttle body into the port ... and I've done it by adding epoxy to the head, not by increasing the diameter of the adapter.

If the RPM of the engine is fixed then ports that are a little too big seem to kill power quicker than ports that are a little too small ...

If you plug in the formula at post #38 to a TDI engine's bore, stroke, and target peak-power RPM (4000) with a target Mach number of 0.6 then the target runner diameter is only 25mm, and if you don't want excessive losses from velocity speeding up (through the minimum cross-section) then slowing down (into the port above the valve) then speeding up (through the valve curtain area) then slowing down again (into the cylinder) that cross-sectional area has to extend all the way to the valve seat. The last little bit needs to be a slightly bigger diameter to account for the valve stem and the guide.
There is not fixed "best" flow speed for all engines.
Many things affect optimal flow speed.
low duration camshafts tolerate and like less flow speed for lower rpm use.
Flow speed is all about volumetric efficiency and inertia filling after BDC.
If IVC is not much after BDC, then engine can not make much use of flow speed, but needs more area/flow to fill cylinder during less time.
Flow speed is basically made by some restriction in runner and it reduces cylinder pressure / filling during intake cycle before BDC, but inertia continues to fill cylinder with made flow speed after BDC.
If valve shuts too soon (lets say at BDC) then all that flow speed made just generated less pressure (air mass) in cylinder and before mass inertia does it job, valve shuts already.
after ~0.6mach there is more pumping losses when making flow speed, than what can be gained from increased mass inertia.

All latest OEM 4-valve (what i have seen), or new GM LS3+ engines have HUGE ports, lots of flow and runner area and small camshafts for the intended RPM.
This does not yield to good VE%, but gives broad RPM band and good RPM capability as cylinder pressure is high due early IVC, but due big cross section areas, it can carry to higher RPM.
Option would be to take more RPM, but that would need more camshaft, or to less runner area and more camshaft to maintain same max hp rpm, but both would make emissions to fail.

Without flow speed there is no inertia filling to allow good volumetric efficiency and camshaft / runner areas must be specified for each other.
But like you say, .6mach is close to perfect for any high rpm performance engine.
The more VE%, the more sensitive engines are for everything.
RPM limitations make some racing classes really interesting when HP must be get before certain rpm.
Beyond 120VE% things get hard and approaching 130VE% (above 170hp@10000rpm with ZX10R).
But with more rpm and less VE% things are usually easier before RPM gets crazy.

Usually slightly to big is not as bad as slightly to small =)
When speed starts to go beyond .6mach, usually power drops drastically.
Depending of pulses and overlap scavening, flow speed can be easily 0.1 more than less than what calculated, so you need to use simulation to get correct flow speeds and runner areas.

Most flow losses come from air deceleration / expansion.
Depending on valve sizes, I usually start taking speed down slightly before valve guide to make it turn better and expand more gradually to combustion chamber.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
I was trying to ask tdimeister about if he had some idea very to find a scientific paper about ram charging system with double resonance chambers and combined with helmholtz, in that I was trying to post a figure but I can not still find out out how to do it, and in that trying the original text abow got away, sorry for that

I was perticular interested in the mathematical correlation that was done in Burghardt & Arnold, 1989, since the correlation of 4 valve looks strange
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/5110/Burghardt_and_Arnold_1989_.pdf
 

MarkoP

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
2.0 BKD 140hp
Slightly difficult reading, but good pictures and they have description in English.

I have tried to find math for Helmholz resonator, but google does not provide ready chewed math for engines.
..there is some motorcycle guys math available, but its full of errors.

So I have done math so that I calculate how many pulses per second happens in induction and then I have calculated helmholz resonator to oscillate with same frequency.

This is for the plenum and pipe from atmosphere to plenum.
Does it sound about right?
 

sardo_67

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Location
CT
TDI
2015 Golf SEL 6spd
no major progress on this right now but this engine is out of the Jetta since i totaled it out on a tree in january, another reason why bald summer tires aren't a good idea in the winter.

it will be freshened up and put into my Cherokee soon, i am not sure if Alex is ready to put his custom valves into the head for this one but it will have some port work done and when finished i'll have it dynoed.
 

Alex22

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Location
Western CT
TDI
2014 Jetta
I think I had them hosted on photo bucket or the other one that switched to paid hosting services a few months ago. I may have all that stuff on my old hard drive. If not the paper notes should be around either the shop or my old room at my mom's

I should have some free time this week to look throug records.
 

Alex22

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Location
Western CT
TDI
2014 Jetta
Still no luck finding my hard drive yet, I've moved 3 times since then and imageshack has not replied to me about the missing pictures. Haven't forgotten, just can't find the pictures.

-Alex
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
There is an extension that you can add to your browser so PB photo's show up again.
 

Alex22

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Location
Western CT
TDI
2014 Jetta
There is an extension that you can add to your browser so PB photo's show up again.
Unfortunately these were on imageshack.us and I'll have to email the originals to FUB. I found the hard drive but now need to track down my adapter since I just pulled the hard drive out of my old laptop before tossing it.

-Alex
 
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