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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old September 3rd, 2017, 22:53   #421
Mako
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When we reference torsion value in the forum we should use the actual cam position referenced against TDC. Early VCDS positive was advanced cam timing, latest VCDS negative is advanced cam timing.
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Old November 27th, 2017, 17:23   #422
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05 Passat, Torsion value set at 0.0, after sitting a day or more it is hard to start. Have changed both tandem pump as well as in tank pump, I am lost. Once it does start up it runs fine, Cold weather making it more of a issue starting. Debating on moving cam sprocket.
I have another Passat and it's torsion value is 3.4 and it starts right up the same morning my driver did not want to start.
Thoughts?
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Old November 27th, 2017, 18:59   #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrosema View Post
05 Passat, Torsion value set at 0.0, after sitting a day or more it is hard to start. Have changed both tandem pump as well as in tank pump, I am lost. Once it does start up it runs fine, Cold weather making it more of a issue starting. Debating on moving cam sprocket.
I have another Passat and it's torsion value is 3.4 and it starts right up the same morning my driver did not want to start.
Thoughts?
Try adjusting the cam to see if you can get a value that isn't 0.0.
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Old November 27th, 2017, 21:08   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrosema View Post
05 Passat, Torsion value set at 0.0, after sitting a day or more it is hard to start. Have changed both tandem pump as well as in tank pump, I am lost. Once it does start up it runs fine, Cold weather making it more of a issue starting. Debating on moving cam sprocket.
I have another Passat and it's torsion value is 3.4 and it starts right up the same morning my driver did not want to start.
Thoughts?
Fuel filter?
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Old November 27th, 2017, 21:57   #425
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Assuming the reading is accurate, you have a problem not related to torsion.
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Old November 28th, 2017, 15:45   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Assuming the reading is accurate, you have a problem not related to torsion.
Ditto. Start a new thread so you don't clutter up this one.
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Old November 29th, 2017, 05:47   #427
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Ok I was able to bump my cam pulley. Now it is set to 3.4 on torsion value. Started it this morning at 43 degrees F, turns over a lot easier and actually did start without running the battery down. One item down on to the next check, glow plugs?
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Old November 29th, 2017, 11:24   #428
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Originally Posted by gtrosema View Post
Ok I was able to bump my cam pulley. Now it is set to 3.4 on torsion value. Started it this morning at 43 degrees F, turns over a lot easier and actually did start without running the battery down. One item down on to the next check, glow plugs?
Now set it to zero again. The problem with setting torsion value is that it can be so far off that it will read zero. Now that you know where you are, tap it slowly until you find zero again and see how it starts. If it's back to doing the same as before, then we know for sure that it's not a torsion value problem and it's time for you to start a new thread.
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Old August 25th, 2018, 08:36   #429
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Bringing it forward...............
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franko6 View Post
If you have any additional questions, give me a call. Answers below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPG MASTERS 1 View Post
Since I am apparently out of range of the cam sensor because I get 0.0 TV on block 4, my question are:
1. Does the TV number send that number to the ECU to tell it when to fire the injector or is that number only given for the mechanic to see where the cam is in relation to the crank?
The cam position sensor works in tandem with the crank position sensor. Cam sensor tells the next cylinder to fire. Crank sensor tells what timing.

2. Is it the crank sensor telling the ECU when to fire the injectors?
Yes and no. It must have the cam sensor feed or it's a 50/50 chance the crank sensor will get it wrong.

3. Since I am out of range and the TV is zero 0.0 and the engine runs fine, I wonder what or where the injector id getting its firing signal.
If you have a failed crank sensor, the engine will not run. If you have a failed cam sensor, the default is 0.0. The engine will default from the crank sensor and try option #1, then option #2. The choice being which piston is on the firing stroke.

4. (More Scary) Will the slot range on the pulley keep you from moving so far as to damage the engine by hitting a valve with the piston?
If you have the cam sprocket bolts centered in the adjustment with the crank lock and cam lock installed, you can move the adjustment all the way from stop to stop and not cause an interference hit.

Block 15 at -1.4 was .401/h, at +1.5 it was .601/h at unknown - value it showed .201/h, then I moved cam Clockwise a fair amount to try to get back in range and the TV still showed 0.0 and the Block 15 also still showed .201/h.
All Block readings were at idle.
We use the VCDS block 15 liter per hour block to get the engine to get some windage of the range of fuel usage. The lowest read will still be a range of about 1 degree. Once we find the range, we use block 13 for the lowest variance between injectors. We also will run block 15 at 2000rpm, looking for the lowest fuel usage. Usually around 2.4l/hr is relatively normal.

Will run it today and see how it feels but would like some thought from anyone that knows any of the questions, Thanks
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Old September 3rd, 2018, 06:56   #430
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I did my settings like Ol,Rattler wrote and it worked pretty well on my 1.9tdi 130hp engine.
Cars start values were torsio 0,0 and idle fuel consumption 1,0 l/h

I got lowest fuel consumption idle values between +5,5 to +7,0 idle fuel consumption was 0,6 to 0,4 l/h. My cars fuel consumption at 2000 rpm was only 2,0 l/h.

To see lowest values put parking lights on and close all electric things inside the car and take electric fan power cable off so it wont start to run during testing.


While driving the minimum idle fuel consumption is not the best for best efficiency. On this car the best fuel consumption at 15mg injection was 6,0 torsion value. Differences in max speed was 6 km/h124km/h to 118 km/h and in uphill measuring point difference was even higher 10 km/h 84 km/h vs 74 km/h.


On other car best values came when I moved timing torsion from lowest value 5,5 to 2,2 I got most power at 16mg injection. So the best torsion value is not same for each car
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Last edited by Vekke; September 5th, 2018 at 01:12.
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Old September 5th, 2018, 01:05   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerich@apex-tuning View Post
I thought so too. I messed with the adjustment and realized I could only get negative values but it recognizes the adjustment. I can adjust it from about -5.9 up to 0.0. Fuel consumption(measuring block 15-004 I think) at -5.9 was about .40 and at -1.0 was .60. I couldnt adjust enough to reach 1.00+. I thought the timing was off but checked it with the timing mark on the crankpulley to the timing cover and the pin slid in the cam with ease. I am still stumped. The car sat for several months at a dealership. Can the pd injectors get clogged that quickly?

I tried to adjust one car which value was set to -4,9 idle fuel consumption was 0,8l/h. I was only able to get reading on -5,4 and after that values went off the limits meaning value was 0,0, but idle fuel consumption went down even to 0,4 liters which is about the min 1.9 can reach. I put the adjustment to middle and told the owner to get is sorted where belt was installed last time. So the timing was probably off one tooth.
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Old September 14th, 2018, 17:07   #432
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I bought a 04 golf and the fuel mileage wasn't were I wanted it to be. I started research and here I am. Checked with vcds and it said I had a TV of 6.9 at idle. Car runs fine, some diesel fumes on start up but goes away as soon as you are away. Do I just need to set the TV back to 0.0?
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Old September 16th, 2018, 22:09   #433
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Originally Posted by runonbeer View Post
Has anyone besides me ever noticed the hand written numbers on the timing belt cover. It's formatted the same as the group 4 field 4 number being -/+ digit decimal digit and there is a K and W next to it. German word for crankshaft: Kurbelwelle. German word for Angle: Winkel
Unit specific, factory cam timing spec? Maybe.
Polish people write the numeral 1 so that it looks like a capital italicized A without the dash connecting the slanted parts and that's what the 1's look like on the belt cover.
I looked into this a little deeper about a year ago but didn't uncover much.
I set torsion value more or less to this number (if it says -0.5, that's where I set it. A lot of them say -/+ 1.1 which I can't do. Makes me think they have a higher resolution tool at the factory for the measurement). When the cars come in, the number is typically considerably negative from the value stated on the cover. Belt stretch? Analogous to ALH pump timing dropping across the belt interval.
Just brain farting out loud here.

I think these crank locks are overrated, I just changed my stock cam out for a colt cam stage 2.

Found the TDC mark on flywheel, made sure cyl 1 lobes were facing up. Markedly the belt on the cam sprocket. Pulled the camshaft, installed new colt cam, realigned belt mark with sprocket mark, slipped the belt on the sprocket and slipped the sprocket back on the camshaft pulley. Turned engine over by hand to double check, started engine I'm -0.5 torsion.

No fancy cam/ crank locks, no fancy removal tools, no locking pins.
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Last edited by turbotorq; September 16th, 2018 at 22:26. Reason: Typo
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