NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

Diesl

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I think the point being made is that with the type of stranding that will go on, and the expense of the fix, anyone buying one of these is taking a pretty large risk.
It's about a 1% risk; hopefully lower for post-2010 TDIs. 1% is large if it were a life-or-death risk, but we are talking car failure and getting stranded at the side of the road here.
 

Smokin_Joe

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It's about a 1% risk; hopefully lower for post-2010 TDIs. 1% is large if it were a life-or-death risk, but we are talking car failure and getting stranded at the side of the road here.
Question is how long will vw pickup the cost of the repair?
Never liked gambling and I have a hunch the cp4 pump is untrustworthy.
2micron is testing a stable replacement, cp3.
Good luck
 

chucky2

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It's about a 1% risk; hopefully lower for post-2010 TDIs. 1% is large if it were a life-or-death risk, but we are talking car failure and getting stranded at the side of the road here.
Stranded on the side of the road can be a life or death risk. Is it likely to happen? No. Does one spend $25-$35k on a new ride, drive it many years to get their money out of it, to have a real possibility of it happen to them? That's a hell of a hit if/when it happens. Think of any other car malady to hit one with an out of warranty vehicle, what is the worst that can happen? A trans? $2-$3k, and then you enjoy a good rebuilt with some kind of warranty for a long time - likely rest of life of vehicle. An engine? $3k, maybe $4k, and you have an entirely brand new engine for what will now be the life of that vehicle. What's the going rate on a complete TDI fuel system replacement? $5k? And when that happens, you have new parts that give you what exactly? What they give you is the exact same chance it'll happen again, plus, zero performance/drivability benefit like a new engine or trans would provide. In everyday car terms, this is about the worst thing going.

What happens if VW stops doing out of warranty repairs and I'm driving my stage IV gallbladder cancer dad and my stage III sarcoma mom up to the hospital, 1.5 hours away on the freeway, and this thing dies and it's 90F out? Or here in Chicago it's -20F? I paid $30k for a new TDI for the pleasure of them suffering, when quite honestly, they simply cannot afford to suffer? And now I can pay $5-$7k to replace the fuel system, so it can happen again maybe next week?

The simple fact is this: For people who buy a new vehicle, treat it right, so they can count on that vehicle, a VW 4cyl TDI is simply not a buy they can reasonably make. Full stop. There is zero chance someone that needs to truly depend on their vehicle could in any type of good faith make that case.

Is it good enough for healthy me to buy, if I have no one like my parents? Sure. Is it good enough for a used TDI swap into my Ranger? Absolutely. Good enough to buy knowing it's going to transport the young and infirm in a more harsh weathered environment where they shouldn't be exposed to it? Not a snowballs chance in hell.
 

JSWTDI09

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Question is how long will vw pickup the cost of the repair?
Nobody here knows the answer to this question for sure. However, the general consensus is that the free "courtesy" repairs will probably end just as soon as the NHTSA investigation ends. As frustrating as this seemingly endless investigation is; there are reasons to hope it doesn't end soon.:confused:

Have Fun!

Don
 

Smokin_Joe

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Nobody here knows the answer to this question for sure. However, the general consensus is that the free "courtesy" repairs will probably end just as soon as the NHTSA investigation ends. As frustrating as this seemingly endless investigation is; there are reasons to hope it doesn't end soon.:confused:

Have Fun!

Don
My thoughts exactly.
This CP3 from 2micron is really encouraging

Joe
 

Matt927

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several
Nobody here knows the answer to this question for sure. However, the general consensus is that the free "courtesy" repairs will probably end just as soon as the NHTSA investigation ends. As frustrating as this seemingly endless investigation is; there are reasons to hope it doesn't end soon.:confused:

Have Fun!

Don
I agree with Don. I will also be interested to see how the CP4 behaves in the new EA288 application in the Golf/Jetta platform with DEF and solenoid injectors.
 

turbovan+tdi

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I have to disagree with this. I don't believe every single car will experience a HPFP failure, and that is what you are stating. Even if the total failures is double the reported number, it's still a tiny fraction of the total cars built. Yes, it's terrible to the person that it happens to, but don't claim it will happen to everyone. :eek:
As you break down, :eek: ;)

OK, I will try to make this polite, please don't take it as something other than that, as it is hard to say this without sounding like I am attacking you (I am not...) BUT

You are reading a car forum; where the absolute worst of any model gets discussed ad nauseum (and this particular forum is worse than most for the chicken little mentality; to which you seem more than willing to contribute ) and taking every single point as gospel.

Stop.

No, seriously; stop.

Take a step back; take a couple deep breaths, and start over. ;)

There are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of CR TDIs driving all over the United States and Canada that have never experienced any of these horrible failures. Seriously. One guy here uses his car as a taxi, and has something like 250,000 or more on it. I drive 40,000 miles a year and haven't had any rusting, exploded pumps, destroyed engines from water, or any other world-shattering issue in ~110,000 miles to date.

People come to car forums to find out about problems they may be experiencing, or to complain about problems they have. You will automatically paint the worst picture possible of any car maker by visiting the forums surrounding their cars. That is not the normal operation of the vehicle for 95% to 99% of the owners...

My point is this: Yes, these cars have some issues. No they are not remotely as bad as this forum makes them appear. Is it bad if it happens to you? Sure is, I would hate it as I am sure everyone it has happened to has hated it. But at, realistically, less than 1% of the total CR TDIs sold to date I am willing to take my chances... ;)


Your opinion is noted; and I completely disagree with just about everything you said.

No, the number is not "probably a lot higher;" it is probably a lot lower once you factor in unreported misfuels.

Yeah, it's a bad failure; but it's a man-made, mechanical device. THEY FAIL, sorry. ;) IF you feel as if your car is going to explode, sell it and get a horse. All cars have problems; all of them. This one isn't even the worst one out there... How about your Ford bursting into flame from the cruise control module? Or maybe you'd prefer controlling your runaway Toyota/Lexus when the throttle sticks and you can't turn it off?

1-3%% failure rate is not even newsworthy, sorry to say.

No, it is not a question of when; it is barely even a question of if. Again, if you are that afraid of your car sell it.

I've driven mine all over the eastern seaboard from Maine to Florida without a second thought. Never stranded me, never caused me anything beyond savings with my 45-50mpg highway mileage...


Actually, that is exactly what he said: He said every one of them will fail; which is complete crap. That's what "this one WILL leave you stranded and its not a question of if, but when"means; literally... ;)

Once again; drive more, worry less. If you are spending so much time trying to find problems with your car that you don't enjoy your car, then you are doing it wrong. :D
Nope, nothing offends me anymore, lol. The point is, its a failure that is fairly common, which we agree to disagree on, :p and for the price of that car, it shouldn't be something that will haunt you. True, there are some cars with high miles but some cars have low miles and had multiple failures. Yes, cars break down, I fix cars for a living but most cars on the road don't have an issue like this. I and others agree that its unacceptable. :( Also, has said, if VW stops covering warranty, then your shiny new car is now going to cost you another $8 grand to fix, woo hooo.


It's about a 1% risk; hopefully lower for post-2010 TDIs. 1% is large if it were a life-or-death risk, but we are talking car failure and getting stranded at the side of the road here.
So your making a left turn and the car suffers the HFPF failure and oh look, a big rig is coming towards you, BOOM. Again, cars do fail but as said, this is unnaceptable.

I'm not prepared to buy a newer TDI for that reason, call me stupid, dumb, whatever. Actually, just call me cheap, errr frugal.
 

nayr

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@turbovan-tdi; brother turn your paranoia into hope and buy some lottery tickets.

Were not talking anywhere near the level of ignorance GM performed by ignoring faulty ignition switches; nearly every single car was effected and the end result was the shutdown of the motor and most of the vehicles safety features, like airbags, steering, brakes, etc.

If you make a left hand turn infront of a bigrig with absolutely zero margin for error; the fault for the injury, and nomination for darwin awards, is yours alone... omg what happens if you missed a gear, or a tire popped right then or your axle broke, or a meteorite broke your windshield.. we can go on and on forever and a fuel pump failure will be one of the last things to worry about.

If this bothers you so much sell your TDI asap and go buy a Prius, me I'll put a 2micron filter on eventually.. sooner if VW stops repairing them for free.

I am more annoyed by all the emissions crap that wont last a fraction the life of the engine; but thats mandated by the govt and not VW's fault.. nobody I am aware of has a DPF with a 500k warranty.
 
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Smokin_Joe

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@turbovan-tdi; brother turn your paranoia into hope and buy some lottery tickets.

Were not talking anywhere near the level of ignorance GM performed by ignoring faulty ignition switches; nearly every single car was effected and the end result was the shutdown of the motor and most of the vehicles safety features, like airbags, steering, brakes, etc.

If you make a left hand turn infront of a bigrig with absolutely zero margin for error; the fault for the injury, and nomination for darwin awards, is yours alone... omg what happens if you missed a gear, or a tire popped right then or your axle broke, or a meteorite broke your windshield.. we can go on and on forever and a fuel pump failure will be one of the last things to worry about.

If this bothers you so much sell your TDI asap and go buy a Prius, me I'll put a 2micron filter on eventually.. sooner if VW stops repairing them for free.

I am more annoyed by all the emissions crap that wont last a fraction the life of the engine; but thats mandated by the govt and not VW's fault.. nobody I am aware of has a DPF with a 500k warranty.
Hi Everyone
Met turbovan today.
He is a good guy.
He isn't overstating anything and I don't think he needs to invest in lottery tickets, although there is nothing wrong with winning.
I will be installing a 2micron filter fix as soon as 2micron sends info to me and I will be replacing the hpfp with the upgrade cp3, asap.
Time to move forward.
Nice meeting you today Simon.
 

Smokin_Joe

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Good idea

Lets get back on topic of NHTSA updates. Most of this conversation belongs in a different thread.
Here ya go
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...ake=VOLKSWAGEN&searchCriteria.prod_ids=954771
I started it off with a 2011 golf
You can adjust year and make etc
Details of complaints, recalls etc for any car and model year that have been filed
Numbers are very low and decreasing as model years increase.
Details contain scary stories of immediate failures and enormous costs that Volkswagen of US are currently covering, sometimes even beyond warranty limitations.
Volkswagen of Canada has covered at least one repair under warranty and others at a shared cost to owner. In Canada repairs covered under warranty are usually denied or hard fought.
 
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Lightflyer1

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2015 Beetle tdi dsg
All known and posted about things. Supposed to be for updates about/from the NHTSA investigation, which there aren't currently, and haven't been for a long while. I keep coming here to see updates only to find rehashed conversations about already known things.
 

Tarbe

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Location
USA
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Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
OK, I will try to make this polite, please don't take it as something other than that, as it is hard to say this without sounding like I am attacking you (I am not...) BUT
You are reading a car forum; where the absolute worst of any model gets discussed ad nauseum (and this particular forum is worse than most for the chicken little mentality; to which you seem more than willing to contribute :D) and taking every single point as gospel.
Stop.
No, seriously; stop.
Take a step back; take a couple deep breaths, and start over. ;)
There are tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of CR TDIs driving all over the United States and Canada that have never experienced any of these horrible failures. Seriously. One guy here uses his car as a taxi, and has something like 250,000 or more on it. I drive 40,000 miles a year and haven't had any rusting, exploded pumps, destroyed engines from water, or any other world-shattering issue in ~110,000 miles to date.
People come to car forums to find out about problems they may be experiencing, or to complain about problems they have. You will automatically paint the worst picture possible of any car maker by visiting the forums surrounding their cars. That is not the normal operation of the vehicle for 95% to 99% of the owners...
My point is this: Yes, these cars have some issues. No they are not remotely as bad as this forum makes them appear. Is it bad if it happens to you? Sure is, I would hate it as I am sure everyone it has happened to has hated it. But at, realistically, less than 1% of the total CR TDIs sold to date I am willing to take my chances... ;)
Your opinion is noted; and I completely disagree with just about everything you said.
No, the number is not "probably a lot higher;" it is probably a lot lower once you factor in unreported misfuels.
Yeah, it's a bad failure; but it's a man-made, mechanical device. THEY FAIL, sorry. ;) IF you feel as if your car is going to explode, sell it and get a horse. All cars have problems; all of them. This one isn't even the worst one out there... How about your Ford bursting into flame from the cruise control module? Or maybe you'd prefer controlling your runaway Toyota/Lexus when the throttle sticks and you can't turn it off?
1-3%% failure rate is not even newsworthy, sorry to say.
No, it is not a question of when; it is barely even a question of if. Again, if you are that afraid of your car sell it.
I've driven mine all over the eastern seaboard from Maine to Florida without a second thought. Never stranded me, never caused me anything beyond savings with my 45-50mpg highway mileage...
Actually, that is exactly what he said: He said every one of them will fail; which is complete crap. That's what "this one WILL leave you stranded and its not a question of if, but when"means; literally... ;)
Once again; drive more, worry less. If you are spending so much time trying to find problems with your car that you don't enjoy your car, then you are doing it wrong. :D
Amen to all that.
I have 272,000 on CR vehicles and still waiting for my first explosion (which I don't expect will ever happen).
 
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turbovan+tdi

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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
@turbovan-tdi; brother turn your paranoia into hope and buy some lottery tickets.

Were not talking anywhere near the level of ignorance GM performed by ignoring faulty ignition switches; nearly every single car was effected and the end result was the shutdown of the motor and most of the vehicles safety features, like airbags, steering, brakes, etc.

If you make a left hand turn infront of a bigrig with absolutely zero margin for error; the fault for the injury, and nomination for darwin awards, is yours alone... omg what happens if you missed a gear, or a tire popped right then or your axle broke, or a meteorite broke your windshield.. we can go on and on forever and a fuel pump failure will be one of the last things to worry about.

If this bothers you so much sell your TDI asap and go buy a Prius, me I'll put a 2micron filter on eventually.. sooner if VW stops repairing them for free.

I am more annoyed by all the emissions crap that wont last a fraction the life of the engine; but thats mandated by the govt and not VW's fault.. nobody I am aware of has a DPF with a 500k warranty.
I don't have one so how can I sell it? ;)

The point I am trying to make is most cars have issues, but this one leaves you stranded, no if's and's or but's. If you can take that risk, like a lot do, all the power to you. Personally, its not worth it to me. That's it, I am done, off my soap box, :p

If you want to go that route, Toyota was worse with unintended acceleration but we'll leave that for another thread.

Hi Everyone
Met turbovan today.
He is a good guy.
He isn't overstating anything and I don't think he needs to invest in lottery tickets, although there is nothing wrong with winning.
I will be installing a 2micron filter fix as soon as 2micron sends info to me and I will be replacing the hpfp with the upgrade cp3, asap.
Time to move forward.
Nice meeting you today Simon.
You too, great chatting with you. :D
 

LRTDI

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Red Sox Nation
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RIP 16 GSW... Just the LR diesel now
Its certainly gone quiet.

With a (?) all new engine design this variant (!) of the tdi is probably consigned to the VW history books, except for this hangover, which it seems has been pretty much resolved.
 

ezshift5

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2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
Amen to all that.
I have 272,000 on CR vehicles and still waiting for my first explosion (which I don't expect will ever happen).
Hard numbers with very positive conclusion. I like that in a post.

.....sorta makes my (reaffirmation) day....(I already like the vehicle).


ez
 

chucky2

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Location
Chicagoland, IL USA
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Ford Ranger FX4 Level II
It is great the vast majority are enjoying many HPFP trouble free miles. The problem is, some aren't, and it ain't a cheap fix (nor a safe issue to have). Worse, having it happen potentially again at any whim is doubly not reassuring.

VW would honestly be better off releasing a statement that actual quality diesel fuel in the US and Canada is **** compared to EU, and that they will be covering any HPFP/fuel system issues by original or secondary owners (who still bought under VW warranty) until 350k mi. The stranding would still be an issue but at least the monetary risks would be mitigated.
 

Smokin_Joe

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It is great the vast majority are enjoying many HPFP trouble free miles. The problem is, some aren't, and it ain't a cheap fix (nor a safe issue to have). Worse, having it happen potentially again at any whim is doubly not reassuring.
So true...
VW would honestly be better off releasing a statement that actual quality diesel fuel in the US and Canada is **** compared to EU,
I think they already have. That was the excuse for many of the denials for repairs. Problem is I don't think anyone should ship a vehicle to another country or continent that it can't survive in.

and that they will be covering any HPFP/fuel system issues by original or secondary owners (who still bought under VW warranty) until 350k mi. The stranding would still be an issue but at least the monetary risks would be mitigated.
No comment I don't operate a multi million dollar company
(All are my opinions based on my experiences)
 

piotrsko

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the way I see it, at 35750 miles, the 2 micron filter goes on, then we go looking for electronic HPF pumps.
 

Smokin_Joe

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2011 Golf TDI Highline returned for refund
.... then we go looking for electronic HPF pumps.
Is there such a thing?
2Micron is testing a cp3 (baby version) on a tdi
My Dodge has the full size cp3 and they don't require a high pressure Aux pump. 13psi (approx) pressure from the lift is all you need.
 

Lightflyer1

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Please these discussions belong in another thread. This one is supposed to be for "Updates" not general rehashing of already discussed things many times. Go to one of those and discuss these things and leave this one for updates.
 

Smokin_Joe

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Please these discussions belong in another thread. This one is supposed to be for "Updates" not general rehashing of already discussed things many times. Go to one of those and discuss these things and leave this one for updates.
Funny I think everyone got bored with the way things are and this thread has taken on a life of it's own.
The op really hasn't complained...yet..lol
 
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Lightflyer1

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All long term threads tend to drift off. I would really like to see this one stay on topic though. It could be important to many here when details finally do come out. Kind of like the boy who called wolf every time I click the link. ;)
 

Smokin_Joe

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All long term threads tend to drift off. I would really like to see this one stay on topic though. It could be important to many here when details finally do come out. Kind of like the boy who called wolf every time I click the link. ;)
True enough.
(If something really changed, with the NHTSA investigation, it would no doubt warranty a new thread.)
 

Smokin_Joe

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Why, everything is already here? That is exactly what belongs here.
I agree...but...I am thinking the "new" thread would probably contain a link to the announcement in this thread. and not much else.
(Like you said this one is old. Conversations like this one are like crying Wolf for those that are subscribed and come here looking for something new.)

I shudder to think what the investigation is goin to decide as well as the response from VW.
The imagination runs wild...


If something were to REALLY change it would warrant some sort of ...Announcement.
Just sayin...;)
 
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ATR

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When it comes in it will be the talk of the year.
FTFY ;)

I don't think it'll be just a month. considering the many threads I read and how overblown things tend to get here at times I think it will be more then likely a year or heck maybe decade before we hear the end of it.
 

GoFaster

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Given that we hope EA288 fixes this problem, we hope this whole thing just fades away. At this point I'd say it's unlikely that NHTSA does anything about it. In the USA, the status-quo is somewhat OK; people are getting these fixed, and VW is covering the cost, even if it is outside warranty.

If we start getting reports of 2015 models with this problem, THEN we have a problem ...
 

Debra Morgan

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Given that we hope EA288 fixes this problem, we hope this whole thing just fades away. At this point I'd say it's unlikely that NHTSA does anything about it. In the USA, the status-quo is somewhat OK; people are getting these fixed, and VW is covering the cost, even if it is outside warranty.

If we start getting reports of 2015 models with this problem, THEN we have a problem ...
Especially for those of us who bought 2015 models. But no car is trouble free....my 21 year old son had a nearly new Elantra as a rental car, it developed a Rod knock within a few hundred miles of his picking it up.
 
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