Delayed Air Conditioning

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
The effect was pretty quick. I drove it once before I hav to go do something else.
My wife drove it later and didn't say anything so I finally asked her and she said (SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED) she wold have told me if she had any problems.
I think that by the time it had a chance to circulate through the system it starts to take effect.
It probably won't hurt and it may help.
Mine starts cooling in the driveway where before it might be several miles down the interstate before it begins to work.
Good luck,
JDB.
 

redbarron55

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Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
Good luck with the ICE 32. Believe it or not I don't sell the stuff, but it worked for me.
Maybe the additives cut some of the crud and helps lubricate the inner works.
I couldn't make up my mind the first time I drove the car, but it was working which it did sometimes.
Over a few days it was apparent that it was helping and SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED said it was good --- So it must be much better.
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
as an update---
I have had a chance to travel a bit in the Sportwagen and I can report that for the most part my A/C is working, HOWEVER when the temp is satisfied and the compressor is "cycled" to low the response back to cool is a little slow sometimes. So far if I turn the temp down the compressor will start putting out more in response.
I think that there is still some drag in getting the compressor to go from low displacement to high.

It is nowhere near as bad as it was, but sometimes noticeable, sometimes not.
The fix may well be the replacement of the RCV, but if the problem is as some have conjectured small bits of metal circulating with the referigerant them the problem will get worse or the compressor will fail.

My thoughts on this is that to reduce the drag in the system Sanden may provide a low viscosity oil that does not protect as well as some others.
I have not been able to find a reference to the viscosity of the Sanden oil vs. PAG49.

My opinion (for what it's worth) is if the valve were changed then the system should be flushed and refilled with high quality PAG49 with ICE32.

Also I am looking for a good source for the valve. I have not seen a reference to where we can get valves other than one post that gave a phone number and ask for ??????

Does anyone have a good source for the late valve that is held in with the snap ring?

Best regards,

JDB
 

dand2

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Location
Frederick County, MD
TDI
2012 Metallic Brown JSW w/Sunroof 6MT
I have noticed the same issues with my ac. UNTIL I pushed the recirculate button and that seemed to help get the ac cooled off quicker......so now I am much happier with my ac
 

rcrdps

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Location
Louisiana
TDI
2009 VW Sportwagen
I know this is already figured out, but just wanted to add to the list:
2009 TDI sportwagen
Mine started happening at 15K, and it was bad enough that we brought it in at 30K. My figuring was it was either the temp sensor right behind the evaporator, or the coolant recirc valve which is mounted directly to the compressor. I told the dealer that. After bringing it to them several times, they finally fixed it. Told me it was the N280 valve,... no, duh,. .that's what I told you. Just didn't use the part number. They replaced the compressor too since it was about to go out of warranty. That was nice of them.

I think my AC is getting weaker again. I currently have 70k on it. Might try that ICE trick.

Gene
 

jkirkku

Active member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Location
Wichita, Kansas
TDI
2009 Jetta Tdi, 06' E320 Cdi, 2005 F250 PS
Have you checked your fans? You should not get hot air at a stop light. That is almost always at least one bad fan.

Recently I have not, they were checked twice by vw when we kept complaining about it. I'll also check the flaps that redbarron mentioned.

Sorry for the no reply for so long... been crazy busy and the Jetta jas just sat since it has so many problems.

THanks for the help.
 

carlosabh

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
El Paso TX
TDI
Jetta
I've been experiencing these delays in a/c operation the last two months, I have been researching a lot on this matter but nothing is conclusive of the causes of these delays, in my case they happen more often in the morning in the first start, up to 5-6 minutes in delay of cooling, I read that in Audi's you have to perform basic settings of the N298 aka Refrigerant Control Valve and that you start basic settings for this pushing the ECON plus the rear window defogger switch in climatronic panel.
Yesterday I had a delay of almost 10 minutes so what I did is initiate this basic setting when the delay was present and voila!! the compressor started pumping and cooling, but what surprised me was that it cooled a lot better then before.
Today the a/c worked almost inmediately at startup so I don't know if this was coincidence or if actually cured the problem.
I already ordered a new n298 valve at ACTION-ac.com for the Zexel compressor that I will change anyways to rule out sticking valve problem.

So for those of you that are having these delays it won't cost you to try this, please post if you have same results.
 

rcrdps

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Location
Louisiana
TDI
2009 VW Sportwagen
Very interesting. Got links? I don't have the ECON button, so I'm quite curious if there's a way on a standard options VW.

I so wish I could get my hands on a real FSM so that I could know how to do things like this. My Nissan FSM's were to die for! But nooooooo,... not the Germans.

Gene
 

carlosabh

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
El Paso TX
TDI
Jetta
I don't know in your case, but this was performed on an 06 Jetta GLI with climatronic.....
I don't have the links at this moment, there has been so many web links I have read that I don't remember exactly where I read that. I just tried it there was nothing to loose.....
 

zleem60

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Carl,
What are the exact procedures to do a "initiate this basic setting". I've tried to press my Econ button and then rear defrost. didn't work, I've tried to press both of them at the same time. It did not work. I've tried to press them both before starting the car. It did not work. Can you please provide the exact step as to how to set this basic setting? Do you have to use Vagcom when doing this basic initiation?
I've tried ICE32, I've replace both fans, replace high pressure switch. Cleaned and replaced in cabin filter, clean and blew off dust on blower motor (no longer squeaking). So the only thing I have not done yet is to replace the RCV valve. The AC works great after 10 min driving. But in AZ, 10 mins. is not comfortable while waiting for the AC to start cooling.
Thanks,
MIke
 

zleem60

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
I believe this is the correct RCV valve for the Sanden PXE16 compressor. I'll let you know when I get it.

http://us.aliexpress.com/snapshot/102436571.html?isRedirect=false

well just thought i had this one fixed. worked for a week then back to the same old problem. tried the oil his afternoon hope if works as well as the others seem to say. original post :

"Seems as though the control valve will fix the delay situation. Talked with fellow in Kentucky that really seemed to know a lot about these compressors. If you’ve got the Sanden compressor it’s worth a try. If you’ve got the Zexel replace the compressor. Got my valve and info from this group call 1-800-926-4445 ask for Blake.

think I also found a valve at:
www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/451943913-SANDEN-PEX16-PXE13-PXE16-Compressor-control-valves-Audi-Seat-VW--wholesalers.html
valve looks the same but connector does not look right.

Need to fill the system from the high side. To do that WITH THE ENGINE OFF I pulled a vacuum then fed the refrigerant in to the high side holding the can upside down. To push the extra in I heated the can with a hair dryer. Crude but it works. Be sure you shut the high side valve before starting the car or you could possible blow up a can. "



Not sure if I got it right but put in one and a half 12 oz cans. System called for 17 to 19 oz. the final high side pressure was 220 psig low side 40 psig ambient temperature was 102 deg F.
 

carlosabh

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
El Paso TX
TDI
Jetta
Carl,
What are the exact procedures to do a "initiate this basic setting". I've tried to press my Econ button and then rear defrost. didn't work, I've tried to press both of them at the same time. It did not work. I've tried to press them both before starting the car. It did not work. Can you please provide the exact step as to how to set this basic setting? Do you have to use Vagcom when doing this basic initiation?
I've tried ICE32, I've replace both fans, replace high pressure switch. Cleaned and replaced in cabin filter, clean and blew off dust on blower motor (no longer squeaking). So the only thing I have not done yet is to replace the RCV valve. The AC works great after 10 min driving. But in AZ, 10 mins. is not comfortable while waiting for the AC to start cooling.
Thanks,
MIke
The procedure that I used was:
with climatronic set at LO, I just pressed both buttons at the same time for 5 seconds aproximately (ECON button and rear defroster) it won't do anything, then just press AUTO button again and you're done.
As un update this is my third day without any delay in cooling....
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I ordered a valve for the PXE-16 from that company last night. There are teo possible valves, one with a bolt holding it in place and another one that is held in place with a snap ring.
Mine is the snap ring version:
ProductCode:31-55340
Description:CONTROL VALVE PXE16 20-08675/20-08688 1st DESIGN Quantity:1 Price:$55.56
I will post when it comes in and I have had a chance to replace it.
I am told that the oil will not need to be replaced to swap the valve, but it will have to be evacuated and vacuum pulled before refilling with referigerant.
 

zleem60

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Carl,

Thanks for the procedure in redoing the basic setting. I just held it for like 3 seconds and nothing. I'll hold them down longer and see if that fixes it. I do have Sanden compressor. So I already bought the wrong one because VW use two different Compressor for 2006. I have the correct one coming. Will keep you inform if the basice setting fixes the delay.
 

carlosabh

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
El Paso TX
TDI
Jetta
Carl,
Thanks for the procedure in redoing the basic setting. I just held it for like 3 seconds and nothing. I'll hold them down longer and see if that fixes it. I do have Sanden compressor. So I already bought the wrong one because VW use two different Compressor for 2006. I have the correct one coming. Will keep you inform if the basice setting fixes the delay.
Thanks for the update!!! I am waiting for RCV too, it was shipped UPS ground and it's taking longer then expected!! hope to have it tomorrow here, I am changing that valve too anyways. Keep us informed hope that we resolve this mystery.
 

richbking

Active member
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
I posted to one of the other AC threads, but I too changed the RCV from the same Aliexpress supplier for the Sanden compressor and also did the ICE32 addition to the system. I can say that my AC is consistantly cold without a delay.

Fwiw

Rich
 

zleem60

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Carl,

Try to hold down the Econ and Rear defrost. Still no response until after 10 minutes. Only thing left to do is wait until the RCV arrives. I'll let you know what happen after replacing it.
 

carlosabh

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Location
El Paso TX
TDI
Jetta
My car is again having the a/c delays, mostly when it sat for longer periods of time in the sun, it takes almost 5 minutes to start cooling, in 110F weather and with a black car with black leather that is like been in hell!!
I still have not received the RCV from action-ac.com I have called them and they told me that they "forgot" to send it to me and that they will send it to me right away (that was last friday) I still have not received anything!!!
Hope to get it before the weekend!!
 

rrgrassi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Location
Royse City, TX
TDI
'06 Jetta TDI 5 speed
My '06 is having the same issues. Of course, it waits until the extended warranty expires.

I have noticed that it takes forever for the outside fans to start up. When they start up, the cooling begins very well. My car will also tease you...it will start to cool while driving or course, then stops, and few minutes later, starts up again.

Is there something that "tells" the fans to begin spinning when the A/C is turned on?
 

redbarron55

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Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I just looked at the Bentley manual and the "basic setting" of after the compressor has been changed ( I assume if the RCV has been changed as well ot ICE32 has freed up the vlave).
The process is as follows.
Again I assume what I say is properly interpreted.
Start the car with the A/C off (ECON mode?)
Let the idle stabilize.
turn the temp to max cold
turn on the A/C and give it five min. to go through it's setting process.

The actual words are below.
  • Note:
  • Note the following when starting engine for first time after filling refrigerant circuit:
  • Start engine with A/C compressor switched off ( "ECON" mode) and wait until the idling speed stabilizes.
  • Open an instrument cluster air vent.
  • Select temperature preset "Lo" on A/C Control Head E87 .Now switch A/C compressor on ( "Auto" mode) and allow engine to run for 5 minutes at idling speed.
The instruction are a little cryptic, but this is what I just did. Ocassionally my system will still take a holiday. particularly if it is very hot. I will see if this helps and report.
I still have not had a chance to change the RCV I bought
 

zleem60

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI w/ 5th gear swap .658, 2002Jetta Tdi six speed swap!! :)
Carl, Its been awhile. Hope you got the RCV and your AC is working good. I got mine a few weeks back. Change it out, vacuum system, recharge with freon and little ICE32. Fire up the car. Starting to cool within 5 seconds. NO MORE DELAYS!! How about that, a $25 dollar part that I had to buy from China made the AC all better.
 

redbarron55

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Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I just finished replaceing the RCV on my 2009 JSW. It started with not cooling at low speeds or stopped. I found a flapper on the shroud missing and replaced that. Then I thought I was good to go, but the delay continued.
I added the ICE 32 and that helped. my wife assured me that the problem had not gone away. The A/C seemed to over cool and then cutoff sometimes.
I ordered and waited for the $21.00 Chinese valve plus shipping. This afternoon I had a chance to replace it and recharge the system.
I started ar 6:30 and finished at 9:00. An hour was spent going looking for a replacement internal snap ring after the original vanished.
Now to the point.
The system seems to work well (no 100 F to test with tonight).
Of interest is the modulation of the valve current in response to the inside temp and setting of the temp control.
Previously the current seemed to be either 0 or .820. Now it varied as the driving speed changes and temp demand varies.
I will keep the forum informed as to the results as esperience is gained.
Mostly I will see if SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED is happy with it.

Later I have made several trips and the A/C works like new and cools and controls perfectly!
 

redbarron55

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Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I suspect that this problem originates with high temp/pressure breaking down the oil and also the very fine swarf generated when any mechanical system wears in.
The oil was slightly discolored, but I did not think it was bad enough to flush and replace the dryer.
There was also some very fine swarf on the fine mesh screen on the valve.
I would consider this to be relatively normal for a mechanical system, but nothing to be happy about!
However my experience with hydraulic servo valves would indicate that this would contribute to sticking the spool in the valve. The very fine particles are not round and rolling, but rather usually flattish and what happens is they "cock" in the very small clearance space between the spool and body.
As a control "expert" I think the behavior we see is due to this sticking and the control system (CPU) winding up due to lack of response.
What happens is the setpoint is not met at partial % so the system drives it to 100% (.820 A.). Then the same sticking causes the system to over cool and the output is driven to 0% where it tends to stick again. In the control business this is known as "slamming" the valve.
Last night I watched the current demand and the respons was pretty linear and modulated to keep the temp. at setpoint. Moving the temp. control up and down was imeadiately answered by the current output to the valve. If you have VCDS you should be able to watch the current output slowly change as the demand changes due to engine rpm and temp setpoint. A proper system will not stay at 0.820 A. for long except when the heat load is higher than the system can deliver.
I have high hopes that this has fixed the system.
If I have further problems I will be prepared to replace the dryer and valve) and flush out the system and install new oil with ICE32.
Personally I think that the entire progress of this problem is low quality oil installed at manufacture. I would think seriously about installing ICE32 in a problem free car to help prevent this from occuring.
I wonder how many have had this problem with the "new" A/C system? From what I see here I think that it is fairly common. Also it is prety expensive to have the entire system replaced when the valve and oil is the problem.
I am currently in the market for another car, but I hesitate due to the high cost of maintenance and reliability problems like this. Fortunately I can fix a lot of things myself, but I am getting pretty old for this.
 

redbarron55

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Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
I had an opportunity to drive around in Mobile AL. heat today and I can report so far that the A/C is working like new.
The temp stays where you set it with no cycling.
SHE WHO MUSY BE OBEYED says it is OK and working correctly.
Cool air from the start and the temp is set higher tha where we had it (blue dot).

I have taken the valve apart and I can report that the spool feels rough in some spots and may have had particles in it that bind it up.
If one were careful it could be removed and cleaned.
The spool is about 1/8" in diameter and to do its job has to have close clearance.
Of course the coil could be bad, but I don't think so.
My guess is that the 800 HZ pulse width modulation positions the spool and if there is any hangup the bias is pretty much marfed up.
If the valve is not fouled again then I suspect that this particular A/C is good to go.
 

rcrdps

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Location
Louisiana
TDI
2009 VW Sportwagen
Nice

Nice writeup. Those posts should be stickied. Your theory definitely fits the symptoms mine had. Now I'm wishing they wouldn't have replaced the compressor too, since it would have needed to break-in, and probably re-introduced more swarf.

Gene
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
SO FAR SO GOOD.
I have replaced the valve per above posts and the A/C is still working perfectly!
That includes the small amount of swarf found on the screen on the valve.
Let me reccommend changing the valve before changing the compressor to save a little money (Lot of money?).
JDB
 
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