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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old February 15th, 2020, 11:45   #5311
Nuje
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I agree; maybe doesn't even have to come down that much. Even just if like, the base Golf (Civic, Corolla, whatever) is $20K, a TDI (RIP) was $22K, and then a 200-mile range electric was available starting at $24K....I think that starts moving things in a big way.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 12:41   #5312
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I think just about anything put on the market that is supposed to appeal to the average owner has to have at least 200 mile range under all conditions except towing. That includes use of anything including heat/AC and other electronics or outside heat or cold.

I would love to have an electric car. But not at today's costs and severe limitations. Not to mention I see electric rates increasing after these are established and ICE are no longer available and disappearing. Once they have you at their mercy then it starts. Has happened over and over again. But I am getting older and this will all probably play out after I am gone.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 19:41   #5313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
I don't see improvement until public charging becomes the norm and relatively problem free. This has too many hurdles to make it anywhere near "quickly"

They say that 80% of the charging is done at home. It is only longer road trips where public charging stations become important.
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Old February 15th, 2020, 23:52   #5314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericy View Post
They say that 80% of the charging is done at home. It is only longer road trips where public charging stations become important.
Certainly you can see that this is inadequately served right now.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 05:24   #5315
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Quote:
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Certainly you can see that this is inadequately served right now.

It isn't great, but it is better than you think. Just a couple of years go a cross-country trip would have been impossible - this is no longer the case.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 05:29   #5316
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Getting better every day.
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Old February 16th, 2020, 06:43   #5317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericy View Post
It isn't great, but it is better than you think. Just a couple of years go a cross-country trip would have been impossible - this is no longer the case.
True. I overstated. Should have said "sub par" but that's OK.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 08:47   #5318
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Apologies if this article has already been posted, but I found it interesting:

https://www.latimes.com/business/sto...v-sales-fizzle

Reinforces what I've heard from several sources: People are buying Teslas because they want to own or be seen in a Tesla. That it happens to be an EV is somewhat ancillary, although it does form some of the car's appeal. The abysmal sales of non-Tesla EVs supports that theory. For example, at least on paper the Chevy Bolt is an entirely acceptable EV, but they were only able to sell about 16,000 of them. And the Tesla sales success story is limited to the Model 3: Model S and X sales are falling. Audi and Jaguar EV sales are especially low. Even Hyundia and Kia, whose EVs have gotten good reviews, are barely moving any vehicles.

I wonder why this is: One could argue that Tesla's far superior charging network is a reason, although I wonder how many EV drivers actually regularly charge somewhere other than home. Otherwise I can only surmise that reasons are what the article says: Range anxiety, cost, style (not an SUV), and low fuel prices.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 09:11   #5319
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Not to mention those who have invested in them have an interest in seeing that things go well, in order to boost the stock price. Why not buy the car and help out. Good everyday advertising. If they fail they will take more than Elon with them down the hole. But the guy has done some really amazing things, so good luck to him!
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Old February 17th, 2020, 10:30   #5320
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This is a move in the right direction.

https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/perso...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

A TransCanada trip would be pretty tough with limited range and no available charging stations, but this gas retailer has committed to adding charging stations along the main highway running across Canada. This might entice some to make the EV leap!
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Old February 17th, 2020, 10:47   #5321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post

Reinforces what I've heard from several sources: People are buying Teslas because they want to own or be seen in a Tesla. That it happens to be an EV is somewhat ancillary, although it does form some of the car's appeal. The abysmal sales of non-Tesla EVs supports that theory. For example, at least on paper the Chevy Bolt is an entirely acceptable EV, but they were only able to sell about 16,000 of them.
You really only need to look at the Bolt to see why it's sales got slaughtered by the Model 3. It looks awful, and it's not that much cheaper. I don't know what focus groups GM was using, but making the Bolt unattractive was a huge mistake.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 11:04   #5322
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I'm probably not an important vote here, but I think the Bolt looks better than the Model 3. And it's a hatchback, which is close to essential for me, but apparently not to everyone else, since hatchback cars are being discontinued rapidly.

And you're missing the point. Whether or not someone finds a car attractive is subjective, to a point. Mercedes and Audi EVs have a strong family resemblance to their ICE vehicles, and people buy the ICE vehicles but not the EVs.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 11:41   #5323
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Your vote is as important as anyone's. But you're definitely in the minority of thinking the Bolt is better looking than the Model 3 . The E-tron is selling quite well in some markets. The problem is production capacity. The legacy manufacturers just can't get enough battery supply.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 11:45   #5324
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Reports of e-tron battery availability issues I saw are from April of last year. cars.com currently shows 983 new ones. And they show over 700 i-paces. At the 2019 sales rate that's a 2 month supply (on that site alone) for the e-tron, and a 3+ month supply for the i-pace.
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Old February 17th, 2020, 11:51   #5325
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The I-Pace is particularly constrained by battery supply. You're right though, neither of those cars are doing great in this market. Probably because Tesla has sucked all of the oxygen out of the room with better efficiency, and just generally much more advanced tech.

https://electrek-co.cdn.ampproject.o...y-shortages%2F

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