NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

atc98002

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When mine failed I was able to steer without an issue into near by parking lot
I would imagine that with KESSY, the steering will remain unlocked as long as the system is on. I doubt it would shut itself off simply because the engine died.

I've never had my Tiguan (which has KESSY) engine die, so I can't speak from experience. But it would seem to be a very bad idea from a safety standpoint for the car to shut itself down simply because the engine stopped. Any number of reasons could cause the engine to stop, and having your steering lock without being stopped is a very bad idea.
 

Blackheart

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Honda did something similar with the transmissions of the automatic Accord V-6 in early 2002. There was a design defect in the reverse gear, so they sent a letter out to all owners saying the transmission was covered to 100K miles.
I had one of those early V6 Honda's. They replaced my transmission at about 2750 miles. I guess they re-figured the costs, and decided to do the 100K warranty thing instead. Seems like VW would be smart to AT LEAST do something similar.
 

DasTeknoViking

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Don't kid yourself... Honda still can't get a automatic to hold together. I work at Acura and we do transmissions like hot cakes. Also I just spent two weeks fixing an AC compressor that took out 5k worth of components and that compressor was parts warranty but rest of the system it took out was not. Acura and Honda make garbage cars these days and don't stand behind their product. My. 02 since they where brought up, and I've been with Acura for over 10 years now.
 

tico27464

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Don't kid yourself... Honda still can't get a automatic to hold together. I work at Acura and we do transmissions like hot cakes. Also I just spent two weeks fixing an AC compressor that took out 5k worth of components and that compressor was parts warranty but rest of the system it took out was not. Acura and Honda make garbage cars these days and don't stand behind their product. My. 02 since they where brought up, and I've been with Acura for over 10 years now.
Honda/ Acura are best making 4 cyl cars w/ manuals. I had an integra and an RSX type S, with nary a hiccup. V6 and automatic, another srory....
~T
 

DasTeknoViking

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Honda/ Acura are best making 4 cyl cars w/ manuals. I had an integra and an RSX type S, with nary a hiccup. V6 and automatic, another srory....
~T
I have to disagree since we have a bunch of issues with their k series 4s. First of all they burn a ton of oil, vtc sprockets going bad, timing chains stretching. Manual transmissions also are hit n miss as we got a bunch of bulletins on them for syncros and updated gear sets. They don't build cars like they used too.
 

pinkertonfloyd

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Don't kid yourself... Honda still can't get a automatic to hold together. I work at Acura and we do transmissions like hot cakes. Also I just spent two weeks fixing an AC compressor that took out 5k worth of components and that compressor was parts warranty but rest of the system it took out was not. Acura and Honda make garbage cars these days and don't stand behind their product. My. 02 since they where brought up, and I've been with Acura for over 10 years now.
Heh... Friend of mine has a TSX which had the A/C issue, it's similar to the HPFP, contaminates the whole system. She was (just) out of warranty, but Honda did pay for most of it... but it was still like $1200 out of pocket. Basically the whole system had to be replaced due to the compressor... and the dealer told her they "all do this". Her TSX has been in the shop for the most stupid things (I think they've replaced her complete interior piece by piece by now...)
 

JBell

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I have to disagree since we have a bunch of issues with their k series 4s. First of all they burn a ton of oil, vtc sprockets going bad, timing chains stretching. Manual transmissions also are hit n miss as we got a bunch of bulletins on them for syncros and updated gear sets. They don't build cars like they used too.

I can vouch for this. I had a 2002 RSX Type S and that thing DRANK oil from day one. It consumed about 1 quart every 2,000 miles. Honda limits are/were 1 quart every 1,000 miles.

Also had a pretty bad problem with the 2nd gear syncro when shifting semi-quickly. Always grinded.
 

DasTeknoViking

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Last reply on this topic, but the Rsx had 10k intervals for oil changes... And most of them where out of oil by 7k miles. Honda said tough **** and fought to not replace engines due to "negligence".

Now they have a maintenance minder system that monitors your driving and recommends when to change your oil... 90k miles on this 07 Mdx with 11-12k mile oil changes.


All car companies cut corners these days, expect the dealers to wow the customers with great service to make up for bad treatment by the manufacturer. My wife had a TSX and i could list a huge list of expensive parts that failed in 120k miles. And working for the dealership actually gets you even worse treatment by the manufacturer.
 

tico27464

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I can vouch for this. I had a 2002 RSX Type S and that thing DRANK oil from day one. It consumed about 1 quart every 2,000 miles. Honda limits are/were 1 quart every 1,000 miles.

Also had a pretty bad problem with the 2nd gear syncro when shifting semi-quickly. Always grinded.
I did hear about the synchro issue and signed a petition which H/A ignored. I never had a problem though, and while mine did consume a bit of oil, it was more like 1/2 quart every 4-5K. Lucky, I guess.

Alright, sorry about the deviation from topic. Back to waiting for Godot--er, VW/Bosch/NHTSA...
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
Wow, that MDX is pretty sludged up, but 11-12k oil changes are almost double the interval.. The 3.7L engine's change interval is 3750mi for "severe service" and 7500 for "normal service".. Most people's driving habits end up in between the two so that one should have been done every 5k or so..

As far as the K series engines go, they seem to be hit and miss as far as oil consumption.. My wife had 3 of them over the years and one was really bad with oil consumption and the other two were fine.. The one that consumed the most oil only had 20k on it when she bought it.. the others had 50k+ when she got them.. two were sold at 110k and 120k, the oil burner started abruptly using a lot more oil and spun a rod bearing at 97k.. all 4 oil rings were trashed when it was pulled apart.. 2 were broken.. I'm thinking it either had really crappy rings from the start, or the engine was beat on pretty badly (especially cold) when it was new.. It was a lease return when she bought it.
 

DasTeknoViking

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Actually dealers will tell people, you have 30%.oil life at 8-9k miles and people don't change it. Per Honda its when the car says it needs it. 09+ TSX has a hush hush software update for 6MT cars to address oil burning issue... What I don't get is how software reprogramming will fix poor rings? Also 98-01 B18C1 had issues with bores being oblong vs round from the factory.

While the V6 engine is a killer motor as it's all J series, one must watch out ad front middle spark plug is known to shoot out the head taking the threads with it for some odd reason. Plus the V6 has a reliable timing belt vs unreliable chain which is done by 150k on the K series.
 

RabbitGTI

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*** kind of oil does Honda put in those things? I have all VWs and do 8k to 15k oil change intervals with Mobil One products and I've pulled valve covers on cars with 275,000 miles on them and they are still clean inside. Is it an oil problem?
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
Actually dealers will tell people, you have 30%.oil life at 8-9k miles and people don't change it. Per Honda its when the car says it needs it. 09+ TSX has a hush hush software update for 6MT cars to address oil burning issue... What I don't get is how software reprogramming will fix poor rings? Also 98-01 B18C1 had issues with bores being oblong vs round from the factory.

While the V6 engine is a killer motor as it's all J series, one must watch out ad front middle spark plug is known to shoot out the head taking the threads with it for some odd reason. Plus the V6 has a reliable timing belt vs unreliable chain which is done by 150k on the K series.

Ya that's ridiculous LOL.. That engine clearly either needs more frequent changes or a good synthetic oil.. All I can find as far as an oil spec for that is "Premium Grade Detergent Oil" of the 5W20 variety..

I've had one come in with a blown out spark plug.. Ended up using a rethread kit I had for the Ford 4.6/5.4 truck engines since they would randomly blow out spark plugs.. they only had 4 threads worth of aluminum holding them in with the older engines..
 

IFRCFI

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Ya that's ridiculous LOL.. That engine clearly either needs more frequent changes or a good synthetic oil.
Marketing. Manufacturers of entry level cars are very sensitive about recommendations re: maintenance. Recommend synthetic oil, transmission fluid changes, premium fuel...and you are branded as "maintenance intensive / expensive". Lifetime automatic trans fluid...seriously?

The Internet is filled with stories about nearly new cars that seize up at 20k because the owner thought the only maint required was filling up with gas. Look at the people on here who ***** about DSG fluid changes.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

storx

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Last reply on this topic, but the Rsx had 10k intervals for oil changes... And most of them where out of oil by 7k miles. Honda said tough **** and fought to not replace engines due to "negligence".

Now they have a maintenance minder system that monitors your driving and recommends when to change your oil... 90k miles on this 07 Mdx with 11-12k mile oil changes.


All car companies cut corners these days, expect the dealers to wow the customers with great service to make up for bad treatment by the manufacturer. My wife had a TSX and i could list a huge list of expensive parts that failed in 120k miles. And working for the dealership actually gets you even worse treatment by the manufacturer.
Wow, thats exactly how my friends car looked like when he was doing 10k oil changes for a few years.. it was an TSX
 

GTIDan

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The last 10,000 posts or so have had nothing to do with the NHTSA and everything to do with opinions most of which are completely off topic.
The longer this goes on the more I think in the end it will be much ado about nothing. My dealer has said VW has paid for EVERY HPFP failure with some cars approaching 100,000 miles. No checking for gasoline, etc. What more do you want for free?????
 

truman

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The last 10,000 posts or so have had nothing to do with the NHTSA and everything to do with opinions most of which are completely off topic.
The longer this goes on the more I think in the end it will be much ado about nothing. My dealer has said VW has paid for EVERY HPFP failure with some cars approaching 100,000 miles. No checking for gasoline, etc. What more do you want for free?????
It would be 10x better, if they would put their hidden warranty in writing. What are the actual limits of HPFP warranty coverage in terms of time and miles? Otherwise their unstated policy, whatever it might actually be, is subject to change without notice.
 

RabbitGTI

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It would be 10x better, if they would put their hidden warranty in writing. What are the actual limits of HPFP warranty coverage in terms of time and miles? Otherwise their unstated policy, whatever it might actually be, is subject to change without notice.
Exactly.
 

TDIMeister

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Semi off-/on-topic re start-stop - pun intended LOL - emphasis mine:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-porsche-cayenne-diesel-first-drive-review

We drove this latest Porsche on a 55-degree day in Alaska’s Kenai Peninsula. Never once did we suffer any startup delay. “The glow plugs can reach 1800 degrees [Fahrenheit] in two seconds,” asserts Herold, “so it’s similar to a gas start.” There is no stop-start function offered. “It’s a matter of lubricating the high-pressure fuel pumps,” he adds. “They’re delicate.”
 

tomo366

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The last 10,000 posts or so have had nothing to do with the NHTSA and everything to do with opinions most of which are completely off topic.
The longer this goes on the more I think in the end it will be much ado about nothing. My dealer has said VW has paid for EVERY HPFP failure with some cars approaching 100,000 miles. No checking for gasoline, etc. What more do you want for free?????
Granted, but I for one do not want to hear about Honda/Accura Junk!!
 

GTIDan

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It would be 10x better, if they would put their hidden warranty in writing. What are the actual limits of HPFP warranty coverage in terms of time and miles? Otherwise their unstated policy, whatever it might actually be, is subject to change without notice.
Point taken..........
 

darrelld

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It would be 10x better, if they would put their hidden warranty in writing. What are the actual limits of HPFP warranty coverage in terms of time and miles? Otherwise their unstated policy, whatever it might actually be, is subject to change without notice.
The Prima Facie evidence suggests they do not have enough confidence in their design to do this.
 

amy1000

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The Prima Facie evidence suggests they do not have enough confidence in their design to do this.
Yes VoA, stand up and behind your product and workmanship!

Four failures in four months. This is a repeat failure with my diesel fuel system. I previously reported the first two occurrences on the highway safety site and then again as detailed below. Volkswagen of America has now replaced my entire fuel system including the tank. This was only after repeated requests after four times to dealer for service for this issue--total time my car was in for service was 45 days over July through Oct. 19, 2012.

I was aware of the fuel pump failure after researching glow plug light flashing tdi and limp mode immediately upon the first time the lights started to flash on July 6, 2012. I went to dealer and they could not diagnose the problem. I research #flashing glow plug# and #limpmode# #TDI# and discovered this site.

July 17 it happened again they found metal shards in the fuel filter and replaced the high pressure fuel pump. I requested they replace entire fuel system, explaining to the voa customer care person about the HPFP failure situation, that metal shards go throughout the system. Still denied. Picked up my car on july 31 (after 15 days in shop).

On Sept. 17 warning lights/limpmode again. I again request they replace entire fuel system. No, only the pump in the tank. I fax 37 pages documenting HPFP failures and remedy of replacing entire fuel system to Michele, request extended warranty, stress my car is a ticking time bomb, just waiting for the fuel rail to go bad next. She agrees to a 1 year/12k warranty on work done. Which is standard…nothing special (which I didn’t know). Pick up car Sept. 28 (12 days in shop).

Four days later on Oct. 2, again warning lights/limp mode. Back to dealer, again request vofa to replace fuel system. No, only the fuel rail. Dealer replaces fuel rail, takes for a test drive and it failed on them. Finally voa agrees to replace the fuel system...but not the tank. Only clean the tank. I request new tank, Volkswagen of American tells me I can go inspect the cleaned out tank...how will I see inside the tank...voa cust service tells me then I better bring a flash light. Mind you I was dealing with the same cust serv rep Michele the entire time. They decide to replace tank. Pick car up Oct. 19 (after 18 days in shop).

Waiting for it to happen again. Only a matter of time and hope I don't get in accident due to it. Very stressful. So I call VoA again early last week, request to talk to a ‘supervisor’. Get Elaine, who listens to my whole story. I request an extended warranty of 120,000/10 years on the fuel system (since it is brand new). She says she will call me back at end of week to let me know. Friday Elaine calls me back, I miss the call. I call her back, on hold for over ten minutes…my frustration is building. Elaine is not available, I get supervisor April…who asks me after supposedly reviewing my case, “I don’t understand why you are calling.” I ask, “what are you kidding me?” I request again an extended warranty on fuel system. No, denied. Frustrated, I let out an expletive and hang up.

When they replaced only the fuel pump after the Sept. 17 incident, I asked and received a 1 year/12k warranty on work done. Which is standard…nothing special (which I didn’t know). That was before they replaced the entire fuel system. That is why I went back to them for an extended warranty beyond the one year. I saw on the GTI club site that VoA gave warranties to 2006 GTI owners for cam shaft and HPFP for 120k/10 yr. Why not me???

Throughout my entire conversations with VoA I stress concern for my safety and the cost of repair if it fails again (I have 61000 miles on a 2010 TDI Jetta--just squeaked in getting everything covered under the power train warranty). I question why, since the fuel system is brand new, won’t they give me an extended warranty, why won’t they stand behind their product and repair.

I am in my car for two hours a day in commute to work. Every time I get in my car I think about this and I worry. I can’t stop thinking about it. I am so frustrated
 
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kjclow

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Amy, I understand your frustration. If I had that long of commute in that car, I would get rid of it. I know that you will loose money on the sale, but what is your peace of mind worth?
 

chudzikb

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VW building their customer service rep one customer at a time. All brands have problems, just seems we are left holding the bag more than others?
 
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