Should have known better: Dealer botched Timing Belt Job.

About a month ago I got the timing belt replaced on my wife's '06 Jetta TDI by the local dealer. I was looking at a local shop, but logistics were an issue and I needed to get it done, so I took the "easy" route. Seemed to drive fine.

We don't drive it as much as we used to, so the only long trips it takes is once a week to a remote site for my wife's work (~40 miles each way, normal commute is ~5 miles each way city driving). She told me that it was "idling rough" after the engine was fully warmed up. Got it scheduled to go back for them to look at it.

Of course when I scheduled it and dropped it off, I mentioned that it started after they did the timing belt, and they sort of blew it off saying "it could be any number of things". They called us about 3 hours later to get a "better description of the problem".

So imagine my "Shock" when 5 hours of diagnostics later they call me to tell me that the technician didn't do the timing belt right and that it was off "a few degrees" and they wouldn't have time to fix it until today (Saturday morning appointment).

My main question is: In the month that we've been driving it is there any potential damage that could have been done by having the timing belt off, even though it seemed to run find 90% of the time and only have issues at idle? How far off would the timing belt need to be for me to be concerned about damage to the engine?

I expect to get them to quantify the amount the timing belt was off when I talk to them this afternoon.

Mistakes happen, but I would be insistent they either fix it immediately or give me a free loaner.

They are fixing it today, should be done this afternoon. I'm hoping that it was a minor enough error that no damage was done, but need to know what could have been damaged and how to ensure everything is okay.

After they did the belt, did you hear a ticking sound from the engine? If so, there was valve to piston contact and there is a VG chance you will have a catastrophic valve failure within 5K to 10K miles.

If they didn't get the timing right, what else didn't they do right? A T/B is easy to get right if you use the indexing tools and don't take shortcuts.

What other parts did they replace with the T/B?

Odd are you're not going to get a straight story from the dealer on either the amount the timing was off or whether or not there was any associated damage. They'll probably reset the timing and send you on your way. I would want documentation that they made an error in the job and for them to repair any associated damage free for, say, the next two years.

No ticking sound that we noticed. Are the valves something that can be easily inspected? If I were to have an independent shop inspect them, how much would I expect to spend?

Can't really be inspected. If piston to valve contact is suspected, they should be replaced, along with the followers. Head has to come off for that. Not a small job.

Look it is good that they admitted the mistake but not good that they took 5 hours to hook up the diognostic to check the timing. This takes exactly 10 minutes. Looks like they were busy and didn't put anyone on it to the end of the day. Probably as simple as that. If thats the case then no damage done. I doubt its worse than that. A job shop with the tech just trying to max out his pay check for that week and got pretty sloppy. No roll through check. I would demand to see the torsion read out after it is adjusted this time.

Edit: reading the general consensus from above, I might be to optimistic. Did you buy it from this dealer.

Edit: Lets hope luck is on your side. eg. when I had my cam replaced under warranty many years ago, the tech was good but he forgot to adjust the injectors. I just happen to check them last year after I would say 60,000 miles and they only had an 1/8 turn clearance on the adjust nut. Suppost to have 1/2 turn. I was getting good fuel mileage though. didn't seem to cause any damage but only by luck.

Edit: why did I say the tech was good, because I had the timing checked about 2 years after the change out and the torsion timing was smack on.

How far off would it have to be to have valve contact? Would that happen with 1 tooth, or would it take more than that?

Ah, the wonderful Mark & Pray....

James & Son said:

Look it is good that they admitted the mistake but not good that they took 5 hours to hook up the diognostic to check the timing. This takes exactly 10 minutes. Looks like they were busy and didn't put anyone on it to the end of the day. Probably as simple as that. If thats the case then no damage done.

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It's been running for about a month with improper timing, probably close to 400 miles.

Just bear in mind that you're running an interference engine in the TDI. A "unholy" union of valve and piston, no matter how minor, means that the head must come off and the damage repaired. (This assuming the engine has been run with failed timing.)

This is why the "mark & pray" method is frowned upon here. For want of a few tools and a bit of time there is the risk. The risk being $1500 or so of head work and this assumes no piston or rod damage.

What should torsion be at? 0? I know mine previously was at -2 when I bought it, I corrected it to 0.

Just got back from the dealer.
Official diagnosis was the cam timing was 3 degrees retarded. They also set the torsion value to 0.0

Thankfully it sounds like the teeth were all in the right spot.

You can get a lot more than 3 degrees within the same "tooth". There is a lot of adjustment in the cam sprocket so that you the belt is installed correctly but the torsion reads quite a few degrees off.

Actually, you can get a false 0 (happened to me) at the right "tooth" but it is really quite off timing. The car warms up and then the torsion becomes readable, engine tries to compensate, but the result is a rough idle.

I adjusted my BRM and it is still good after around 5k km.

HALL VW?

Those guys suck....

lmoretti said:

Just got back from the dealer.
Official diagnosis was the cam timing was 3 degrees retarded...

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LOL, +\- 2.9 degrees is the limit of what VCDS will show for a BRM like yours. Who knows how far it was actually off.

Typical dealership techs working on TDIs, how cute...

jasonTDI said:

HALL VW?

Those guys suck....

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I'd be more than happy to get a recommendation of who to take it to in the MKE area.

EVS pissed me off when I was looking to buy my first TDI, Hall's pissed me off now so I'll likely never go back- not just this, but their service department treated me like crap during this whole thing.

That's why Milwaukee people come to Madison...

Well, if the injectors don't fall out in the next 30k miles I'll come to you for the next 40k service.

My mom's in Verona, so should be able to make arrangements.

jasonTDI said:

That's why Milwaukee people come to Madison...

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Yep, just about 1 hour from Tosa to Jason's on the east side of Madison.
Why waste your time and money with a dealer who won't/can't do things correctly.

Good luck