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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old April 4th, 2002, 14:14   #1
GoFaster
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default Re: Injection Pump problems

With the engine at warm idle, what are all the numbers in Measuring Blocks group 1?

Injection quantity at idle, and voltage of slide valve sensor, are the two things I'm mostly interested in.
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Old April 5th, 2002, 00:16   #2
Dust
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Default Injection Pump problems

Here's the story, back in October 2001 I got a DTC 1268 code (Quantity Adjuster - Upper Stop Spec) occured while coasting into a shopping mall. Took it to the dealer and everything checkout fine.

Yesterday while driving on the highway engine loses power, blinking glowplug light and check engine light comes on [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] . Pulled out the VAGCOm and same error. There where also Quantity adjuster - Control difference and lower stop spec interrmintent codes aswell. Cleared the codes, re-started and drove home.

Also noticing the past few days that I had rough riding between 1800-2000 RPM I decided to clean my MAF with non-resisdue electonics cleaner and all seems great, smooth ride, no codes [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] until 50kms on the highway. This time Quantity adjuster - Lower stop spec, Upper stop spec, engine dies pull over [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] . Restart car, clear codes and have very erratic idling, then engine revs to 2400 RPM, I turn the car off, still running [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] remove key [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Looking at the CCV pipe to the air intake I notice oil residue, was the engine runing on oil vapours?

I fear the worst that I need a need to have the N146 Quantity Adjuster on the pump rebuilt at www.rovandiesel.com. What else can I check, do, measure prior to ripping out the pump? The fuel filter only has 12000 kms on it, I run Amsoil diesel conditioner and centane boost, so I think the fuels OK, no air in lines.

Like a mentioned I have a VAGCOM and have the bently manual (CD here in a few days)so I can log some data if that would help. Reading all of the previous posts shead some light, but no real answers except to rebuilt the pump. I guess I jsut want to ensure that it is the pump.

Thanks for your help,

Dave
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Old April 5th, 2002, 07:36   #3
Dust
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

Thanks for responding GoFaster, I was hoping that you would seeing how you are the God when it comes to TDI engine if I may say so. We actually meet the the GTG in Barrie in Feb 01 and you helped me out with the N75 boost control difference problem that I was having and it has never occured since.

Well the drive home yesterday was interresting, the engine only died three times [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] all while slowing down downshifting and braking. Thankfully no cut outs while on the highway.

Here are the measurements from group 1 at warm idle:
Engine Speed: 903/min
Injection Quantity: 2.2 mg/R
Modulating Piston Displacement: 1.420 V
Coolent Temp: 81.0 C

I also notice that the MPD varied between 1.366 to 1.440V while idling, but seemed to settle at the 1.420V for a while.

I also logged some data during the engine deaths yesterday, so hopefully there's something in there that may help.

Dave
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Old April 5th, 2002, 08:27   #4
GoFaster
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

hmmm, aside from being right on the specification limit for fuel delivery on the rich side (seen worse), looks normal.

Does it always cut out when coasting? When it's on the highway, does it cut out while coasting downhill or slowing down? Or has it ever happened under other circumstances?
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Old April 5th, 2002, 09:17   #5
Dust
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

When I'm coasting at high RPMs it's not a problem, seems to be more of a problem when slowing down when either coming to a stop or turning. Sometimes on the highway when I'm cruising (constant speed) it has cut out.

I took a look the logs from yesterday while driving home I have noticed the following:

Here's what I got while driving home last night:

Wierd #1:
Engine RPM Inj Quant. Mod Pist Displ
2898 16.2 2.26
2877 7.8 1.68
2835 8.0 1.64
2751 0 0.78
2688 0.2 0.78
2625 1.0 0.96
2583 4.8 1.5
2520 3.2 1.44
2478 3.4 1.36
2394 3.6 1.34
2352 15.6 2.2
2373 15.6 2.22
back to normal

Wierd #2:
Engine RPM Inj Quant. Mod Pist Displ
2520 5.6 1.56
2520 5.6 1.56
2541 3.2 1.5
1848 25.2 2.88
1995 15.2 2.28
1953 0.2 0.78
1932 3.8 1.36
1932 4.8 1.48
1890 4.8 1.44
1890 10.6 1.78
1932 10.8 1.8
1911 9.4 1.76
1932 14.6 2.02
1953 17.8 2.88
2037 9.8 1.94
2037 7.4 1.62
1995 6 1.56
1953 10.2 1.74
1953 13.6 2
1953 17.2 2.14
2037 20.8 2.68
2163 17.8 2.74
2184 12.4 1.9
2163 11.8 1.92
2079 0.2 0.78
1953 0.6 0.78
1848 10.6 1.78
1869 17.6 1.78
1932 23.2 2.84

bounces around some more with the injection quantities at 0 with the mod disp at 0.78 and this is when the DTC 1268 - Lower stop spec is thrown.

I've got more data but it's pretty much the same story. Hopefully you can shed some light on my situation.

thanks,

Dave

[ April 05, 2002, 09:18: Message edited by: Dust ]
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Old April 5th, 2002, 09:53   #6
VelvetFoot
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

How about draining the filter to see if there is water?
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:01   #7
Dust
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

Yeah I thought about that as well and I drained the filter a few days ago and it looked fine, no particles or water visible in the dixie cup.

Another ideas?

dave
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:06   #8
JD BUG
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

Hope he doesn't work at an airport and putting that Jet-A in that TDI (especially if it has Prist additive)
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:12   #9
VelvetFoot
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

"Restart car, clear codes and have very erratic idling, then engine revs to 2400 RPM, I turn the car off, still running"

Have you checked the fuel shutoff solenoid? It has been reported that if the o-ring isn't set right it can cause those symptoms. I don't think the fuel shutoff solenoid valve is that expensive either.
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:21   #10
Dust
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

I've done the output tests on the fuel shut-off solenoid with the VAGCOM and the cars stops, so I'm fairly confident that it's working OK. It was the first time that the car has ever done that and it sound like the runaway problems that some people have had with the A3's (like mine) since it doesn't have the intake air flapper. Like I previously mentioned I did notice oil residue from the CCV at the intake air pipe and it scares the hell out of me that it could be blow by oil, but I guess a compression test would answer that question.

Dave
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:32   #11
VelvetFoot
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

There are some fumes coming out of there anyway. Mine oily as well.

You might want to try to reseat the o-ring anyway - it's free! There's a faq on it somewhere on Fred's.
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:36   #12
Dust
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

Thanks I'll hunt around for the FAQ on the o-ring. I gues that may answer the runaway situation, but any ideas about the erratic injector pump?

Dave
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Old April 5th, 2002, 10:59   #13
VelvetFoot
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

Now I am on real shaky ground here, but if fuel is gradually choked off for some reason, perhaps the fuel pump's not being able to keep up with the request quantity rate requested by the accelerator pedal via the ECM would cause the code.

From the FAQ:
Idles high, but has no power:
- Fuel cutoff valve O-ring unseated. With the engine cover removed, the fuel cutoff valve is located on top of the injection pump just above where the four steel lines go into the end, and has a single wire going to it. Remove this valve (disconnect the wire first!) and make sure the black O-ring is all the way against the body of the valve, then reassemble.

- Accelerator pedal position sensor malfunction.

I don't know about the accelerator pedal in this case. It seems that you're trying to push down on the pedal in response to poorer performance, but for whatever reason, the pump isn't able to deliver.
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Old April 6th, 2002, 00:26   #14
TDIIracer
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

Dust

My A3 Ibiza TDI110 also shows this error code on the VAG-COM:
01268 Quantity Adjuster (N146)
27-10 Implausible Signal - Intermittent

This happens sometimes and itīll flash the glow-plug light. This only happens when my TB is adjusted near the max setting, but see no actual side effects while driving it besides great power.
Is you car stock?
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Old April 6th, 2002, 00:37   #15
Dust
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Default Re: Injection Pump problems

I wouldn't say that the engine idles high, I've seen this when limp mode is engaged and the engine idles around 1100 RPM, my RPMs at idle are at 903 which is normal. I do have power, but the problem is the power is erratic (over and undershooting the quantity adjuster limits) and triggers fault codes which end up shutting the engine off. If it was only on one spectrum I could either lean or enrich the pump with a TB or the Evry mod, but since it's all over the place that would just make things worse. I must also admit that I think the problem was masked by having a dirty MAF, since I've cleaned it the problem has only gotten worse. I think the dirty MAF dampened the injector pump problem since the MAF sensed less air and was more sluggish thus injecting less fuel and not responding as quickly.

I think the accelerator pedal is OK it seems to read OK when I check it with the VAGCOM and when I engage the cruise control the value read remains consistant.

I'm up for a timing belt change in about 8000kms so if this problem hasn't been solved by then I'll probly send the pump in for a rebuild while the belts are off.

Dave
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