ALH clutch/flywheel replace with car-type clutch?

SilverJet00

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2000
Location
Indianapolis, IN, USA
2000 Jetta TDI has 215k original miles on the clutch (it is making clunk noises, but works ok), I am having the clutch/flywheel replaced. Doing the work is an independent VW-only shop. They work on TDI's quite a bit. They say that the "change-over" clutch or "car-type" clutch is popular because it is cheaper. Customers have been happy, and there is no difference in driving. So I am told.

There are no modifications to my car. I do not drive it hard. I like knowing that the car is very reliable. Best car that I have owned. Are there driving situations where the original-type vs. car-type clutch might make a difference? Longevity?
Other opinions??
What is the difference? Stronger clamping with the original clutch?
Thank you in advance.
Monte
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Converting the OE dual mass flywheel to a single-mass flywheel from an earlier VW is common replacement. The flywheel and clutch kits work almost identically to the OE setup, and are less expensive and more durable.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Make sure they use a 21/22 lb. flywheel. Some kits for gasoline cars have a lighter flywheel, which doesn't drive as well in a TDI.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I'm going to object here on the dual mass being more expensive and less durable. If we're talking about a stock car/engine then this doesn't hold water. And even then...

Two of my cars have non-stock DMFs in them: one is a Luk 17-050 (which I recently installed- from ID Parts), the other is a Sachs(?) and is in my car that has a 6spd (more robust DMF for these applications). Both cars are modified. These clutches are both butter-smooth. MY car has a SMF (DC Stage 1, a "car type?"), and was a higher performance clutch (a LOT more expensive than the Luk 17-050); I like it a lot, but it's stiffer (not suitable for my wife).
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I have the original dual mass in my Jetta with almost 260K miles.
No problems with it, no noise, no reason for me to change it.
Also, about 95% of my driving it to work was highway driving.

I've had Sachs clutches in most (if not all) of my air cooled VW's.
Only one that failed was in my van but that one was not a stock built engine. :D
A replacement HD Sachs held up.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I see maybe 10+ failed DMFs here a year. It is pretty common. On the TDIs, the frictions rarely ever totally wear out. Almost always the reason I am taking the transmission out is because the DMF is coming apart (or already came apart). DMFs were failing before the TDIs even got them, way back in the '90s, on 1.8t Audi A4s. So it isn't like this is some "new" revelation.

Used to be, the one piece flywheel conversions became popular because the DMF setups were so nuts expensive. At one time, it was literally double the cost.

Now, the aftermarket offers Sachs and Luk DMF/clutch setups at a reasonable price, and they are often within spitting distance of the popular one piece conversions of a reputable brand.

The DMF by design works great. Smooth engine operation, smooth engagement, and the actual clamping force is generally fine (again, the frictions rarely wear out). But when they break, and they do, it can be pretty catastrophic up to ruining the transmission. That is rare, and in most cases those DMFs were driven bad for a long time and were simply ignored.

The one piece flywheel won't break. Ever. It can't. It is a solid chunk of machined steel, versus about 20 pieces ("dual mass" is a bit of a misnomer, as there are LOTS of little springs and gears in them, too). The downside is that even with a conventional spring tensioned disk (DMFs have solid disks), they generally are not quite as smooth engaging. But, just to point out, converting an ALH to the old style is not going to hurt anything. The earlier 1Z/AHU engines had one piece flywheels too, from the factory. As do most of the base 2.0L gas engines. The conversion kits are just using some slightly modified but basically off the shelf parts used in other VAG products to make everything work. The early versions that were popular were just off the shelf Sachs parts used with G60 (supercharged Corrado) and early VR6 engines. Now, Sachs, Valeo, and others make conversion kits and are sold as such.

So, the choice is really up to you. The original lasted 215k miles. Chances are it was a Sachs unit, and a replacement Sachs DMF setup will last just as long. There are also Luk units available, and they may be less costly, and may be pretty close to a popular conversion like Valeo (what we usually sell here).

I have installed a LOT (hundreds) of the conversion kits. I have only ever had three people not like them, two of which I gladly changed out to a new DMF setup for whatever the extra cost of the parts was. The third, when faced with spending more money, decided it "wasn't that bad". Sometimes cheapness wins. But in the end, at least he'll know his one piece flywheel won't break. Plus, in 1/4 million+ miles, if it actually needs a clutch job due to normal wear, you can just buy the clutch kit with no flywheel, and it will be a pretty inexpensive bill.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Gotta remember that getting rid of the DMF will give you lots of gear rattle at idle, which to some, is irratating.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Depends on the clutch. The disc that Sachs made for the VR6 cars will rattle at idle, although to most people (including me) it's barely noticeable. Other Sachs clutches and clutches from other manufacturers (LUK, Valeo, and our own clutches for example) have a disc with a dampener in the center and don't rattle at idle. SBC clutches use this design now too and don't rattle.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
My DC Stage 1 clutch -SMF- is dead quiet. I think these are, as far as higher performance clutches go, really underrated (I went with this over the SB Stage 2).

Driving the wife's car with the Luk 17-050 (DMF) is very smooth (and now with a full suspension refresh with Koni Reds it's amazingly smooth, especially for an economy car!).
 

indysoto

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Location
Eugene, OR
When I did my clutch a while ago I seem to remember something about adjusting a idle injection quantity in Vagcom(might have used vwtool) to account for the lightened flywheel?
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
When I did my clutch a while ago I seem to remember something about adjusting a idle injection quantity in Vagcom(might have used vwtool) to account for the lightened flywheel?
And eat lots of brownies, too!
 
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