01 Jetta TDI hard to start at all

I have been browsing and searching for days on anything to help me with my starting issue. The car takes about 15-20 seconds to start when cold and refuses to start once it is at normal temp. I bought a 2001 Jetta TDI with 115k miles it was a single owner car that was serviced at the VW dealer in the area for all maintenance, timing belt was replaced just a couple months ago as well as a rebuild of the upper part of the IP. It had a fuel leak from the head of the IP and I learned the hard way not to let the pump fall apart inside. Pump was removed from car and reassembled on a work bench and reinstalled. Engine was at tdc at time of removal and installation. The car was running although hard to start and I was told by a mechanic that only works on VW's that the timing was almost dead on according to vcds. He recommended replacement of the MAF, so I ordered it from MJM Autohas and it has been replaced. Fuel filter was replaced, Air filter replaced and Diesel Kleen added to last fill up. I have a new starter coming in as well as a cable for vcds. Once the car is running it idles smooth and drives well, but underpowered. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I would be suspicious of timing (despite the input otherwise) or the pump. The timing been messed with twice in the last few months and I'd be wary. There's only 2-3 places in the whole US authorized to work on Bosch pumps. A simple seal replacement is one thing but if your mechanic had any trouble with it, chances are it's not happy. Sounds like retarded timing though.

Is there any info out there for the Injector pump, such as a diagram that labels the different parts of it? I'll double check the timing when I get the cable and learn to use and read the vcds program. I know visually the pump is turned almost to the end of the sprocket towards the front of the car.

Yes, do double check your timing for sure. The position in the slotted gear holes on the IP is not a solid indicator. A perfectly executed job would have those end up pretty well centered though. Let us know what you find...

Replaced the starter last night. Starts within 3-10 seconds now. The old starter couldn't turn it over like the new one. Will check timing for adjustments when my cable comes in.

Timing was very retarded showing at 1-3. Got the timing within spec and then slightly advanced. Still taking a really long time >10 seconds to crank up. Got the car on a charger while the starter cools down. Anybody have any suggestions?

Fuel temp 139-140 Timing 53-54. Still takes 7-10 seconds to start up.

Have you checked crank to cam timing?

Everything was in alignment to the engine being at 1 TDC.

The engine was above 80c but I missed checking the box for it.
Going to let the car cool and see if it starts any different. Guess I'll research hard to start while hot...

Have you ever checked compression? Low compression can cause a diesel to be extremely hard to start.

I don't have anything to test the compression myself. I did notice that there were a few bubbles around injector #4 at one point. Would that signify loss of compression? And is there anything safe to spray there to check for bubbles again?

That would be a loose injector line and it means your IP is losing prime. That is most likely the source of your problem.

Tighten down the injector line, if that doesn't help then you may need to replace the line.

Also, fyi, alt + print screen will take a picture of just the current window.

Well, you're certainly heading in the right direction. The things you've done so far needed doing despite not completely solving things yet. Any leakdowns in the fuel system (air in the clear line, loose injector lines, etc.) will cause slow starts. Also, did you mean bubbles coming from the base of the injector or from the flare nut on top?

The bubbles were coming from the base of the injector. We tightened the injectors when we saw it, haven't looked to see if it is still bubbling.

Ah, I missunderstood

Have you had the injectors out, and if so did you replace the crush washers? Those washers cannot be reused.

Use some PB blaster or something similar around the base of each injector, if you see bubbles then that is a compression leak.

I can't remember the torque spec for injectors, anyone want to volunteer the number?

The injectors were taken out to be inspected and the washers were not replaced. I guess I'll change those next.

I've reused the crush washers many times, in fact... every time. You do need to re-surface them w/some wet-dry or iron-oxide type sandpaper. Get rid of any ridges, carbon, etc. until they're clean and flat again. In addition, you can anneal them by heating them up to cherry red then let cool down. I've quenched them before to cool but it's not necessary. What is necessary is absolute cleanliness of the washer seating areas both on the injector body and down at the base of the injector pocket. Pay attention to the walls of the pocket as well for any crud there will likely get scraped off as you insert the injector body and fall down into the sealing area. Long handled Q-Tips, solvent (bio, D2) vacuums and/or air nozzles are all tools that help. Torque the hold downs to 15 ft/lbs. I never go over 17 ft/lbs if one's still leaking. If it isn't sealed @ 17, it's time to pull it out and re-clean. The hold down rockers are not as robust as they look and snap frequently if over-torqued. If you've got bubbling from the injector pocket, it's most likely the washer/seal. Replace 'em if you've got them but, if not, dress the old ones up, clean-clean-clean and try again.

Have you done a compression test after reusing them?

The metal hardens and they do not behave as they should. Talk to Franko6 if you don't believe me.

I will be installing the new washers as soon as I get home. I'll post an update once they are in. And thanks again for all the help and suggestions, I'm still learning the workings of the diesel engines.

puter said:

Have you done a compression test after reusing them?

The metal hardens and they do not behave as they should. Talk to Franko6 if you don't believe me.

Click to expand...

That's why you anneal them every so many times. I've never had one fail or refuse to seal doing this. Basically, I'm kind of 'refurbishing' the washer before re-using. If it doesn't seal for some reason, obviously you're in for some more work. In my experience, that hasn't been the case. It's worked every time with no leaks. Removing them with minimal damage is a big part of keeping the washer useful. Another important thing is, I am talking about the copper ones, not aluminum. I have never reused an aluminum one and probably wouldn't if faced with it.

This used to be more common and endorsed here but things have moved on to replacing them every time. There was a short batch that went out that were incorrect and is covered in the "Do you smoke w/bigger holes" sticky at the top the performance section. Ever since, there's been some degree of paranoia about crush washers. By all means, do what you're comfortable with. If you have them, use them... they're cheap.

Got this after starting it:

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S

Control Module Part Number: 038 906 012 CP
Component and/or Version: 1,9l R4 EDC G000AG 2839
Software Coding: 00001
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066
1 Fault Found:
16764 - Glow Plug/Heater (Q6) Circuit Malfunction
P0380 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

CEL cleared, and hasn't come back. Car still takes around 10-15 seconds to start. Made a couple slight adjustments to timing to get it to crank. Letting the starter cool down, will try to start it in a bit.

Just tryed to start it and got some magic smoke from the starter. At a stand still for now.

Anyone interested in buying an 01 Jetta auto? I'm bored of sinking money and not getting anywhere. I will have a clean title as soon as it comes in the mail and I can give you a 2-3 inch stack of all the maintenance ever done to the vehicle.

I think you're giving up on this too soon, but it's your call.

I'm just frustrated with it and found a comparable 5spd one that I'm interested in. Going to RMA the starter and then reassess the situation. I'll let you guys know when its ready for more testing.

If you're frustrated with it, why not just bring it to a local guru and have them fix it for you?

Would the trusted mechanics by state be the gurus?

Not necessarily guru's, but the list is essentially saying that "we trust these mechanics to know what they are doing".

That being said, I found my mechanic on that list and I honestly think he should be given guru status. I have heard others have not had as much luck, but in general it's considered much better to start with that list and choose someone on it.

you can always post on here and ask if anyone has experience with one of the mechanics (just give the ones you are looking at). People can let you know what their experience was like.