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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old December 5th, 2016, 19:54   #31
absalom
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We need updates! I'm preparing for a similar swap into a 4Runner. Same turbo and motor too!
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Old December 5th, 2016, 21:28   #32
xerootg
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Originally Posted by absalom View Post
We need updates! I'm preparing for a similar swap into a 4Runner. Same turbo and motor too!
Yeah yeah yeah... its been a couple months. I know.

So I bought a 2005 B5.5 variant. Its nothing special, but I've racked up enough miles up on it to be on its second oil change. It's due for a BSM delete and a timing belt.



While I wasn't working on my kitchen (we gutted it) or buying a Passat, I was busy filling my parts cabinet with parts.
I got:
Timing belt
BSM delete kit
Hybrid oil pan
Valve cover gasket
BEW underhood fuse box and coolant glowplug components
XJ stock intercooler (it was cheap)
T10392 gear puller
T10053 seal installer



So I started by inspecting the lifters and the cam, which the last owner had recently replaced. I put the valve cover back on and decided that I would be doing these on the next timing belt.



I then dropped the oil pan on the BHW and found part of the BSM chain tensioner in the bottom of the pan. No worries, I am doing the BSM delete anyway.



I dropped the BSM and was left with the sprocket on the crank.



Once I got T10392, I popped that sucker right off.




It took a while to get tools, so I started back at wiring. I mocked up the coolant glow plug wiring. I like it.



I reused the relay box off a BEW, and was very happy until I tried putting the cover on. I am thinking I will be doing this differently, I still need a couple relays and fuses. I'm leaning towards modifying the Jeep fusebox to work.



One major breakthrough I ran across was a complete manual AC wiring diagram. I needed relay 384 which is J314 or the compressor clutch control.
I will be reusing relay 384, I ran across these pin definitions on Passat World:
Quote:
Pinouts for relay 384 are as follows:
2/30: +12 volts power from fuse 25
3/31: ground
9/75: input from A/C button on dash (see below)
8/87: output to A/C clutch (+12 volts to engage clutch)
1/87a: wire to ECM (probably an input to turn A/C off under heavy engine load, etc)
4: wire to instrument cluster (engine overheat warning lamp)
I really need to finish my kitchen before I make too much more progress, my garage is full of cabinets and flooring materials!
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Old December 7th, 2016, 09:32   #33
A-man930
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Awesome thread. I'm probably looking at an ALH this weekend. Love to see more folks messing with XJ/MJs!
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Old December 11th, 2016, 21:45   #34
xerootg
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Good luck A-man! I've seen you around NAXJA, where the 4.0 is the only engine to own unless you happen to want to swap some variety of a LS

Ok, new subject. Intercooler math (and engine air consumption)

I have a stock XJ intercooler. It was dirt cheap, I figured it was worth a shot. It's spec'd for a 2.5 VM (VM425) (2500CC exactly), with a boost limit around 15PSI and a 4300 RPM redline.

I have a 1968CC BHW, with a 4700RPM top end, and I want to push a little more boost than stock, somewhere around 23PSI. Maybe as high as 25-26PSI with the GTC1549VZ.

We need to look at the flow the stock intercooler would have experienced, in order to ensure air flows through that intercooler at below the target .4 mach speeds assuming that Jeep followed the industry best practice on intercooler design. Either way, finding the CFM the TDI makes compared to the VM425 will show if the stock intercooler is up to stock XJ levels of efficiency. The theory is that mach .4 will ensure the air has enough time to dissipate the heat generated by the process of boosting, while ensuring that I am not wasting effort to pressurizing too large of a volume. The magical measure from what I read is CFM or some other equivalent volume of air measurement when choosing an intercooler, so that's why I am choosing to calculate engine CFM and not use one of the other available measures of an intercooler's ability to dissipate heat.

Math:
Pressure Ratio (PR) = 14.7 + OBSERVED BOOST/14.7

CI*Redline RPM*detonations per stroke*VE*PR = CFM

(source)

We know that generally speaking the VM425 redlines at 4300, and its wastegated turbo produced 15psi real world on the average engine.

152.5594 CI*4300 RPM redline*0.5* 0.85/1728*((14.7 + 15)/14.7) = 327 CFM

Now, we know that engine absolutely did not make 15PSI of boost @4300RPM. More likely it made it between 2-3K RPM. That works out to 150-227CFM when the turbo is actually peaking on boost and a likely redline @10PSI for a grand total of 271CFM.

Ok, so now I have my 2.0L which has an actual displacement of 120.09CI, redline of 4700ish, and I want to make 25-26PSI if I upgrade the turbo. The stock turbo is making a real 21PSI in my daily driver, so we will do math for both to see if the XJ intercooler is enough.

My Passat at 21 PSI @ 4700RPMs would make 120.09*4700* 0.5 * 0.85/1728 * ((14.7 + 21)/14.7) or 337CFM. Right out the door it is dubious that the XJ intercooler is up to the job... but I know for a fact I do not make 21PSI@4700. I also happen to know that the XJ intercooler has more surface area across its tubes than a stock Passat, so lets keep going.

Real numbers are I make 21PSI at 3500PSI. This works out to a demand of 251CFM, so now we are more in line with what I expected.

I want to make 25-26 PSI, so lets do that same math for 26PSI@3500RPM. That's 286 CFM.

I know I can push 23 PSI, 265CFM.

Daily driving I plan on being under boost at 2k and driving between 2-3K RPMs, so my average demand should be between 163-245CFM. I do not consider Jeeps to be performance vehicles, so it is very unlikely I will be pulling the initially calculated peak 337 CFM at 21PSI@4700RPM much less the 384CFM of 26PSI@4700RPM

Its looking more and more like the decreased displacement of the 2.0 VS the 2.5L will actually make the stock XJ intercooler adequate assuming the stock XJ 2.5L diesel intercooler was adequate.

Does this make sense to others in the know?
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Old December 28th, 2016, 00:17   #35
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Here's a thought: the mk4 Golf with its transverse mounted engine has the right engine mount bolted to a aluminium bracket that is also a timing belt cover. Now what I am thinking is that if you take that engine with all the ancillaries, bolt it to the gearbox adapter plate, fit a cross member in front of the engine with two mounts on the frame rails, it would be a lot easier than having to fabricate brackets and mounts between the block and chassis where everything is cramped.

Something like this but with a beefier cross member:



HPA uses a similar set up but with a complicated (expensive) cross member that holds all the ancillaries.

Also i was wondering if it would be possible to keep the 4.0 CPS and required wiring and ecu as a cheap method to have a working tacho?

xerootg, i own a 2.5 vmtd XJ, stock intercooler sits behind the front bumper and crossmember, it has no direct air passing through it from the outside, the fan shroud is designed to cover the back of the intercooler and the fan sucks the hot air from the intercooler, theoretically. i had a boost leak this summer, one of the boost hoses split and i bypassed the IC for a few days, now at that time i did not have a working obd tool for that engine to look at intake temps but i did not feel any difference in top end power, it spooled a bit quicker. i plan to fit the intercooler on the right side of the engine bay, something similar to a top mount but it will be more of a "low mount", make a shroud/scoop for it beneath and fit a thermal switched fan over it. the place where it originally sits, seems like a very good place to have a stealth winch mounted...

Last edited by tekno; December 28th, 2016 at 00:59.
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Old December 28th, 2016, 20:59   #36
A-man930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekno View Post
Here's a thought: the mk4 Golf with its transverse mounted engine has the right engine mount bolted to a aluminium bracket that is also a timing belt cover. Now what I am thinking is that if you take that engine with all the ancillaries, bolt it to the gearbox adapter plate, fit a cross member in front of the engine with two mounts on the frame rails, it would be a lot easier than having to fabricate brackets and mounts between the block and chassis where everything is cramped.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekno View Post
Also i was wondering if it would be possible to keep the 4.0 CPS and required wiring and ecu as a cheap method to have a working tacho?
iirc I think you need some form of cmp (in addition to the ckp) input to get the tach to function.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 08:12   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekno View Post
fit a cross member in front of the engine with two mounts on the frame rails, it would be a lot easier than having to fabricate brackets and mounts between the block and chassis where everything is cramped.
I started out looking at this but in the end went with the side mounts for a cleaner install and easier to change belts.
My XJ mount kit is pretty inexpensive and bolts to the original frame bolts as well as stock engine bolt holes.



Quote:
Also i was wondering if it would be possible to keep the 4.0 CPS and required wiring and ecu as a cheap method to have a working tacho?
I did this and it works well. Used the stock Jeep oil and water temp sender to feed into the Jeep ECU which then runs the dash.
I did need to supply a cam signal to the Jeep ECU to make the tack work.



Quote:
"low mount", make a shroud/scoop for it beneath and fit a thermal switched fan over it. the place where it originally sits, seems like a very good place to have a stealth winch mounted...
I also did this on my XJ and to be honest I still have not connected the thermal switch, I get enough airflow through the intercooler to do the job.
I think there is a picture on my built thread of the intercooler and fan.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:38   #38
xerootg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evguy1 View Post
I also did this on my XJ and to be honest I still have not connected the thermal switch, I get enough airflow through the intercooler to do the job.
I think there is a picture on my built thread of the intercooler and fan.
What are the specs of your intercooler?

New years eve/day I'll be completing the timing belt and BSM delete on my B5.5. Looks like that might have been my last chance to work on anything at home besides my kitchen until March thanks to work.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:50   #39
A-man930
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Now that I have an ALH to look at I see how little room there is on the left side of the block with the AC compressor right there and all. I'm very inclined to keep the jetta's accessory Drive completely intact.
evguy1: I'm very inclined to just use your mount kit; it looks like a very clean and complete set up and I love that it doesn't require you to hack up anything on the truck to use it. I would much prefer it to some kind of funky truss arrangement for sure. But seeing how you rearranged the accessory drive on your XJ makes me hesitate. Would there be any need to rearrange my AC bracket, tensioner, and whatnot while using your kit on an alh?

Last edited by A-man930; December 29th, 2016 at 17:13.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 12:59   #40
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Super cool build! And you're semi local
Good luck!
-BB
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Old December 30th, 2016, 13:20   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man930 View Post
evguy1: I'm very inclined to just use your mount kit; it looks like a very clean and complete set up and I love that it doesn't require you to hack up anything on the truck to use it. I would much prefer it to some kind of funky truss arrangement for sure. But seeing how you rearranged the accessory drive on your XJ makes me hesitate. Would there be any need to rearrange my AC bracket, tensioner, and whatnot while using your kit on an alh?
I'm just today redesigning the drivers side frame mount after customer feedback which I REALLY appreciate.
I have not done an ALH install here just the BEW's so I cant say that the new mounts wont interfere but in a couple of weeks we should have customer feedback with an ALH install in an XJ.
I think it will work since I'm moving the drivers side frame mount back about 1.5".
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Old December 30th, 2016, 15:43   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xerootg View Post
What are the specs of your intercooler?

New years eve/day I'll be completing the timing belt and BSM delete on my B5.5. Looks like that might have been my last chance to work on anything at home besides my kitchen until March thanks to work.
This is the one I used and most of the tube.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390279228619...witem=&vxp=mtr
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Old December 30th, 2016, 18:33   #43
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I've gone past Errington on the way to Nanaimo, we're practically neighbours. All 3 of your builds are excellent. I'd love to drop a 1.9 in my Forester.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 11:43   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck.Comox View Post
I've gone past Errington on the way to Nanaimo, we're practically neighbours. All 3 of your builds are excellent. I'd love to drop a 1.9 in my Forester.
OP, did you die?
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Old February 10th, 2017, 01:10   #45
john.jackson9213
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OP, did you die?
He is working on his kitchen till some time in March! See post #38
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1996 B4V, Hella E-Codes, GLX leather, EuroTuning.cz 02A 6 speed conversion w/.71 5th and .588 6th gear, A4 shift linkage by Matt-98AHU. 11 mm pump by Oldpoopie. Now, GTC1549VZ turbo by Whitbread. TDtuning, 24 lbs. boost, 162 hp, 285 lb/ft tq. Smoke Free (9/18/15). Koni Yellows and Big Brake 5 lug conversion.
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