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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old August 28th, 2007, 20:24   #91
TornadoRed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdeck
This oil report really has me worked up. I cannot afford to have this thing blow up on me and would really like to avoid any major engine work. The coolant contamination has me perplexed. The coolant level has been rock steady for at least 12K
Please post comments as to how serious this is.
It's pretty serious. You need to track down the coolant contamination. And running on WVO, you need to cut the OCI to 5K miles
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Old August 28th, 2007, 21:04   #92
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How can I be getting coolant in the oil but no drop in coolant level? If it is seeping past the head gasket, how to I check that?
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Old August 29th, 2007, 00:50   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdenney
So to get an accurate representation, one should sample at say 2500, 5000, 7500, and then 10,000 miles for an accurate comparison?
Sorry DH - I ment run four separate oil changes - one to stabilize the engine with the new chemistry, then three for 'real data'.

Go ahead a pull a sample at around 5K if you'd like so you can directly compare with your current data. The numbers that will count, though, will be the numbers you get after the 1 year or 10,000 mile point.

You already know that wear will spike up a bit immediately after an oil change then drop. Then wear will increase a bit around the middle of the oil change interval as the 505.01 oil shears back a bit and thins. Wear rates should drop a bit in the last 1/2 of the interval as the oil thickens back up.
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Old August 29th, 2007, 06:31   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyH
Sorry DH - I ment run four separate oil changes - one to stabilize the engine with the new chemistry, then three for 'real data'.

Go ahead a pull a sample at around 5K if you'd like so you can directly compare with your current data. The numbers that will count, though, will be the numbers you get after the 1 year or 10,000 mile point.

You already know that wear will spike up a bit immediately after an oil change then drop. Then wear will increase a bit around the middle of the oil change interval as the 505.01 oil shears back a bit and thins. Wear rates should drop a bit in the last 1/2 of the interval as the oil thickens back up.
Oh ok, was a little confused. Thanks!
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Old August 29th, 2007, 06:34   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoRed
I think you should change it. The soot at 0.70% is getting up there, and the Fe at 89 ppm is very high even on a relatively low-mile engine.

When you say the sample was taken with an extractor pump, do you mean a clean pump with no chance of previous contamination?
Looking at other Passat UOA's, Fe looks similar. I will change it and stick with 7500 OCI for the next few intervals.

It was a brand new pump. I took one sample with it. Shook it up. Poured it out and then took another sample & sent that one in.
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Old August 29th, 2007, 16:00   #96
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JACK: Your Passat engine is looking good. All wear was around average levels for this type of
engine, which is a very good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation by the operator.
Bearing wear read nicely. We found nothing from our test data that would suggest any kind of
mechanical problem at 77,000 miles. The viscosity read mildly low but we were not sure of the
viscosity going in. This oil read like a 10W/30. We did not find any harmful contamination that would
have caused a viscosity shift. Looks like a nice engine with a lot of good miles left. This was serviced by the VW dealer.

aluminum 3
chromium 2
iron 24
copper 2
lead 2
tin 1
molybdenum 2
nickel 1
manganese 1
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 0
boron 10
silicon 3
sodium 3
calcium 1811
magnesium 7
phosphorus 716
zinc 854
barium 0

sub viscosity @210 f 64.1
flashpoint 415
fuel <0.5
antifreeze 0%
water 0%
insolubles .3%

oil has 2000 miles on it
car has 77000 miles
oil should be castrol TXT 505.01

any thoughts?
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Old August 29th, 2007, 20:50   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdenney
^^^ What kind of mileage on the oil itself?
only 2000 on this one. changed it because the dealer could not show me that they used 505.01 oil
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Old August 29th, 2007, 21:01   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anoldbaldman
only 2000 on this one. changed it because the dealer could not show me that they used 505.01 oil
I'm a moron. I couldn't find the mileage for nothing.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 19:09   #99
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This is my first UOA tested by Polaris Laboratories. No oil added.
Oil collect via UOA portable Polaris vacuum pump from dip stick 1 minute after shutdown and hot oil. Used clean sample tube, first sample discarded, analysis on second sample.

Oil is Motul 505.01 100% Synthetic.
2006.5 PD TDI Jetta
VW OEM Oil Filter
70% Highway
30% City
Mileage on Vehicle 14961 miles
Mileage on Oil 5136 miles


WEAR METALS PPM:
Fe: 33
Cr: 1
Ni: 1
AL: 4
Cu: 4
Pb: 1
Sn: 1
Cd: 0
Ag: 0
Ti: 0
V: 0

Containment metals PPM:
Si: 2
Na: 6
K: 6

Multi-source metals PPM:
Mo: 1
Sb: 1
Mn: 0
Li: 0
B: 67

Additive metals PPM:
Mg: 32
Ca: 2402
Ba: 0
P: 994
Zn: 1156

Fuel vol: 0.5%
Soot vol: 0.1%
Water vol: 0.00%
Vis 100C CS: 13.1
TBN: NA
I-R Oxida: 10.00
I-R Nitra: 17.00

My impression is that this is a good UOA for a low mileage TDI. I would appreciate any comments from those with more experience looking at analysis reports. I have not changed this oil yet
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Old September 5th, 2007, 19:53   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutdriver
Mileage on Vehicle 14961 miles
Mileage on Oil 5136 miles

WEAR METALS PPM:
Fe: 33
Cr: 1
Ni: 1
AL: 4
Cu: 4
(snip)
Soot vol: 0.1%
Water vol: 0.00%
Vis 100C CS: 13.1
TBN: NA
I-R Oxida: 10.00
I-R Nitra: 17.00

My impression is that this is a good UOA for a low mileage TDI. I would appreciate any comments from those with more experience looking at analysis reports. I have not changed this oil yet
I agree, this oil can go longer. The soot is low, the additives have not lost their potency, and the wear numbers are very good. No TBN value, but the oxidation and nitration numbers can be used as a surrogate, and they are fine. The Fe should drop as the engine gets more miles on it.
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Old September 5th, 2007, 20:11   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoRed
I agree, this oil can go longer. The soot is low, the additives have not lost their potency, and the wear numbers are very good. No TBN value, but the oxidation and nitration numbers can be used as a surrogate, and they are fine. The Fe should drop as the engine gets more miles on it.
TornadoRed - Thanks for your comments. I intend to finish my 10,000 miles on this oil and then most likely will switch over to a 507 oil.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 21:14   #102
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This is my first UOA since I purchased the vehicle new. I changed the oil after pulling this sample. Any thoughts on this UOA?

UOA by Oil Analyzers
2004 Jetta PD TDI - Total miles: 119815
Driving style is 99% highway, 30 miles each way.
Oil - Elf 506.01 - 0W30 - Miles on oil sample: 10097

Iron 30
Chromium 1
Lead 0
Copper 4
Tin 0
Aluminum 8
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Silicon 3
Boron 99
Sodium 65
Magnesium 336
Calcium 3259
Barium 0
Phosphorus 1239
Zinc 1472
Molybdenum 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Potassium 0

Fule (% of vol) <1
Vis @ 40 C - NA
Vis @ 100 C cSt - 9.6
Water (% of vol) - 0
Soot/Solids (%WT) - 0.6
Coolant - NO

Additional Tests
TBN 6.86
OXID - NA
F-Soot 0.60
Change yes

Recommendations
No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next regular interval.
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Air Filter - EaA208
/ Transmission Oil - VW G50

Last edited by phaser; September 7th, 2007 at 10:45.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 21:26   #103
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Phaser: The sodium is off the chart, it should be 0 or very close. And the viscosity is very low -- at 9.6 cSt, it is just barely a 30-weight oil. Anything below 9.3 cSt @ 100C is considered a 20-weight.

The wear numbers look good, but you can probably do as well with a $6-7/liter VW507.00 oil instead of paying $10-12/liter for the Elf CRV.
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Old September 6th, 2007, 21:39   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaser

Additional Tests

TBN 6.86

OXID - NA

F-Soot 0.60

Change yes

Recommendations
No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use. Resample at next regular interval.
How is that everyone is keeping their soot so much lower than me?
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Old September 6th, 2007, 21:51   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoRed
Phaser: The sodium is off the chart, it should be 0 or very close.
The leaking EGR cooler was changed out, and the oil changed shortly after. This UOA is on the oil after the EGR cooler replacement and oil change. There is no coolant leaking since the EGR cooler was replaced.

Do you think the Sodium is left over or where would it come from?

Quote:
And the viscosity is very low -- at 9.6 cSt, it is just barely a 30-weight oil. Anything below 9.3 cSt @ 100C is considered a 20-weight.
What would cause low viscosity?

I'm not doubting you but why would they say: "No corrective action required, oil is suitable for continued use" if the viscosity is so low?

Quote:
The wear numbers look good, but you can probably do as well with a $6-7/liter VW507.00 oil instead of paying $10-12/liter for the Elf CRV.
I already had a case of ELF 507.00 and have that in the crank case now.

I didn't mention but our driving style is 99% highway. I'll add this to the orginal post.
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Oil Filter - Hengst / Oil - Schaeffer Supreme 9000 5W-40 /
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Air Filter - EaA208
/ Transmission Oil - VW G50

Last edited by phaser; September 6th, 2007 at 22:10.
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