www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 20th, 2010, 17:20   #1561
GgOTi
Veteran Member
 
GgOTi's Avatar
Default

Hello, I have been looking at a lot of the UOA's trying to figure out what I should start using for my 2001 Jetta. I am kind of more confused now then I was when I began. I am looking at Pentosin 5w-40, Mobil 1 0w-40, Mobil 5w-40 ESP, Redline 5w-40 & 0w-40, and looked a little bit at Total Quartz Energy 9000 5w-40. I am running TDT right now, and since we are just now starting to pull out of winter, I feel it is safe to say that I cannot use it as a year round oil. The cold starts were less than ideal. For a while I thought about trying M1 0w-40. But from what I have been seeing, the 0w-40's don't seem to have the best wear properties and tend to shear, so they might not be the best for a 10k mi OCI. Is that off base? Any UOA's that you could point me to regarding the the formerly mentioned oils for comparison would be appreciated.
__________________
Get gilligan Off The island

Last edited by GgOTi; March 20th, 2010 at 17:48.
GgOTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2010, 17:32   #1562
Sloppy Snood
Veteran Member
 
Sloppy Snood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Midwest
TDI(s): Passsat
Fuel Economy: 31 mpg (city) / 38 mpg (hwy)
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSlick
Have any of the Passats that show low levels of aluminum had this chain replacement done? There almost has to be some Al alloy in these gears or the internals of the new oil pump.

To put this 20 ppm of Al in perspective, if you took a very small paperclip & dissolved it in five quarts of oil, you'd have an Fe level of ~ 100 ppm in your oil analysis....

TS
For gear-driven upgraded oil pump balance shaft assemblies, I suspect these Al levels are from the new gear surfaces. Still need to determine if the coating on the new gears is an aluminum-based coating on the meshing surfaces of the new gears.

LINK: Post Balance Shaft Oil Change (Click Here)

A best guess at this point but based on what has been reported, entirely plausible.
__________________
Got Meleagris gallopavo silvestris?

Don't know what a "Snood" is? Click Here and Move Cursor Over the Beak



'05 VW Passat TDI GLS - The Unofficial TDIClub VW B5.5 Passat oil pump balance shaft crybaby!
Sloppy Snood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2010, 17:46   #1563
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GgOTi
Hello, I have been looking at a lot of the UOA's trying to figure out what I should start using for my 2001 Jetta. I am kind of more confused now then I was when I began. I am looking at Pentosin 5w-40, Mobil 1 0w-40, Mobil 5w-40 ESP, Redline 5w-40 & 0w-40, and looked a little bit at Total Quartz Energy 9000 5w-40. I am running TDT right now, and since we are just now starting to pull out of winter, I feel it is safe to say that I cannot use it as a year round oil. The cold starts were less than ideal. For a while I thought about trying M1 0w-40. But from what I have been seeing, the 0w-40's don't seem to have that best wear properties and tend to shear, so they might not be the best for a 10k mi OCI. Is that off base? Any UOA's that you could point me to regarding the the formerly mentioned oils for comparison would be appreciated.
I don't recall seeing a *bad* UOA from M1 0w40 over the years. If you can wait a few months I'll have a recent UOA with it.

That being said, you could use any of the oils you mentioned for 10K miles. If you want the best value for a great oil, look for Shell Rotella T (or T6) 5w40.
__________________
2003 Jetta TDI (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2010, 13:13   #1564
TornadoRed
Veteran Member
 
TornadoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888
Please check your thinking. I just reviewed as many BHW UOA's I could find in the OUA thread and the Al ranges from 4 to 8 PPM in them. Mine is at 21 PPM. Something is amiss here and I am considering re-sampling the old drain oil (still have it) and sending the new sample to a different lab.
Aluminum levels of 4-8 ppm in other Passat TDIs are higher than the average for TDI engines in Jettas, Golfs, and NB... which are typically 0-2 ppm.
__________________
'03 Golf with 730k miles: Bosio DLC 764, GT1749VB, PP 2.5" downpipe, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Bilstein HDs, Recaros, Akebono pads/Brembo rotors, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Pirelli Cinturato P7 AS+, TDT/Delvac1
Like TDI Club? Got PayPal? Got $1 or $5 or $10? Contribution link on the main page.
TornadoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2010, 13:18   #1565
aja8888
Veteran Member
 
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI(s): Out of TDI's
Fuel Economy: About as good as it gets!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoRed
Aluminum levels of 4-8 ppm in other Passat TDIs are higher than the average for TDI engines in Jettas, Golfs, and NB... which are typically 0-2 ppm.
TR: you mentioned in the previous post that "my results are fairly typical" and I assumed you meant to other Passat PDs, not in comparison to PD Jettas, Golfs, etc. My results are not fairly typical to other Passats is my point.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
........"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2010, 13:27   #1566
TornadoRed
Veteran Member
 
TornadoRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Saint Paul (ex-San Diego)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GgOTi
Hello, I have been looking at a lot of the UOA's trying to figure out what I should start using for my 2001 Jetta. I am kind of more confused now then I was when I began.... I am running TDT right now, and since we are just now starting to pull out of winter, I feel it is safe to say that I cannot use it as a year round oil. The cold starts were less than ideal.
TDT has been a great all-season oil for TDI owners in all climate zones. I don't know what you mean by "less than ideal" cold starts. Do you mean it seemed like the oil took too long to circulate? If so, did you have your oil filter installed the right way up? Or do you mean the engine didn't turn over as fast as you'd like, in which case it's time for a new battery.
__________________
'03 Golf with 730k miles: Bosio DLC 764, GT1749VB, PP 2.5" downpipe, Malone tuning, VR6/G60 clutch/flywheel, Bilstein HDs, Recaros, Akebono pads/Brembo rotors, Cat filter with Nicktane head, DG Panzer w/FMJ, Pirelli Cinturato P7 AS+, TDT/Delvac1
Like TDI Club? Got PayPal? Got $1 or $5 or $10? Contribution link on the main page.
TornadoRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 07:24   #1567
GgOTi
Veteran Member
 
GgOTi's Avatar
Default

Bob:

I was not trying to infer the there was a "bad" UOA for the 0w-40 oils. I was simply trying to say that the trend seemed to be that the 0w-40 UOA's were not as favorable as the 5w-40 UOA's. I know that this might seem like "well duh..." kind of a statement, but I am hoping to get a more thorough explanation about that and if it should be a significant decision factor.

TR:

My experience this winter with the TDT was smoke on startups, decreased mpg (which I understand is seasonal, but it seemed like it was worse than usual), and the engine would have a noticeable drop in performance before the engine had fully warmed up. I was not trying to say that TDT was a bad oil. I don't think that it is. I just believe that there are mostly likely better year round oils. If that hasn't been your experience than more power to ya.
__________________
Get gilligan Off The island
GgOTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 07:50   #1568
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GgOTi
Bob:

I was not trying to infer the there was a "bad" UOA for the 0w-40 oils. I was simply trying to say that the trend seemed to be that the 0w-40 UOA's were not as favorable as the 5w-40 UOA's. I know that this might seem like "well duh..." kind of a statement, but I am hoping to get a more thorough explanation about that and if it should be a significant decision factor.

TR:

My experience this winter with the TDT was smoke on startups, decreased mpg (which I understand is seasonal, but it seemed like it was worse than usual), and the engine would have a noticeable drop in performance before the engine had fully warmed up. I was not trying to say that TDT was a bad oil. I don't think that it is. I just believe that there are mostly likely better year round oils. If that hasn't been your experience than more power to ya.
I can attest that TDT feels on the sluggish side in the winter compared to a thinner Euro or thinner API oil, until the TDT warms up. It's a difference you notice right away. (the first cold start and cold-running with a thinner oil)

For M1 0w40, we'd really have to see recent usage of both 0w40 and 5w40 used in the same vehicle, under similar conditions, to really know. A few more months and I'll have a 5K mile sample.

As far as wear amounts.. the difference between 20 ppm Fe and 40 ppm Fe (for example) over 10K miles, over the long term is effectively none. Double a small number is still a small number in the grand scheme of things.
__________________
2003 Jetta TDI (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 11:55   #1569
silverbox
Veteran Member
 
silverbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax Nova Scotia
Fuel Economy: 55mpg highway@100kph
Default

I would have to agree with Bob as far as low wear numbers go.
I think people get a bit obsessive about the numbers.
The best "winter start" oil I have used was the German Castrol 0w30. I did use this oil year round as well.
__________________
KERMA tune, PDliftpump,11mmIP Race 520's. PD150 Intake manifold&TIP, 1722 turbo, Upgraded IC pipes and Eurojet SMIC.Stealth racepipe. 2.5DP+catback areoturbo2525 muffler. Peloquin LSD.
Koni FSD's +VR6 springs, 23mmRSB, 16x7w/Conti DWS. GLI Recaros, Wingnut short shifter, Ecodes w/relays+60/100h4's.
Cat2 Fuel filter DG/Amsoil Bypass filter
silverbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2010, 09:39   #1570
TDIPirate
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Menomonie, WI
Default

Well Here is my second UOA since starting. Anyone have any thoughts about how it looks. I'm thinking its good, but I'm not exactly sure whats good and whats not.

__________________
1997 Jeep TJ, 5 spd

06 MkV, 5 spd, G60/VR6, TDIheater, Cat Fuel Filter, DG Oilbypass filter.

Last edited by TDIPirate; March 26th, 2010 at 09:42.
TDIPirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2010, 09:43   #1571
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
 
Bob_Fout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Indiana
Default

Pirate, everything looks fine.
__________________
2003 Jetta TDI (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Photos | Mods | CJ-4 Oils | Oil Analysis | Stage II Cam
Bob_Fout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2010, 10:12   #1572
TooSlick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dixie
TDI(s): Audi 100S
Default

Pirate,

Are you running a biodiesel blend?
Analysis results are excellent - lots of margin after 10k miles.

TS
TooSlick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 14:01   #1573
eb2143
Veteran Member
 
eb2143's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rhode Island
TDI(s): None
Default

2001 Jetta 205,000 miles at sampling
Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40 CI-4+ (last of the CI-4+ that I have)
9957 miles (Sample # 2)
• Oil in sump for 314 days (5/24/09 thru 4/3/10) (Sample #1 from last year was in the sump for 308 days and was also Mobil 1 TDT CI-4+, so they make a great comparison)
_Total make-up oil added: 3/4 qt
_Fuel: ULSD + PS only, no bio for this run.
Side Note: Sample #1 had a TBN that was slightly low, especially for TDT. I speculated that if the WVO-derived B20 I had been using almost exclusively had not been properly titrated or acidified from storage problems, could have lead to my lower TBN on the assumption that combustion isn't perfect on these especially during cold starts. I switched back to Irving ULSD for this sample, and my TBN was up 55%, despite being identical oils in the sump for identical periods of time & miles. Interesting.
_Driving style: If it's driven enough to reach operating temperature, it will see WOT and at least 3,500.
_Synopsis of driving: These 10,000 miles included many short trips (7-10 miles) during the winter time after cold starts. I would say the miles were only about 50% highway, whereas the first sample was 75%.
_Wear rate: 2.81 ppm/1000 miles

--------
Nitration comments? I think Polaris is over reacting a little, the TBN is good. They do mention that too much disparity between oxidation and nitration can indicate air to fuel ratio problems.
Viscosity is nearly unchanged from virgin (14.9) and soot is still low. I'm happy and don't see anything alarming.



Here's some gasser info on Nitrates (AFAIK I have a fully functioning EGR w/ stock setting):
Nitration results from the heating of O, O2, N2, OH, and H in the
cylinder during combustion. The separate gasses mix
and when burned, form many resulting gasses
including NOx.

NOx generation is highest during: high
pressures, high temperatures, during crank angles between 10 and 40
degrees, and when the A/F ratio gets near
16:1, such as in lean-burn engines.

NOx gets into the oil via the blow-by gasses
during the power cycle when the cylinder pressure is highest and when
when the temp of the buring gasses is highest.

EGR valves and large overlap cams introduce
exhaust gas back into the cylinder to cool it down, reducing generation
of
NOx.
__________________
SOLD MY BABY: 2001 Jetta TDI 5mt, Bosio Sprint 520s, Koni FSDs, VW HD Springs, 10mm spacer, Audi TT LCA bushings, 034 motorsports strut mounts, E-code lights, Audi TT "short"-shifter, IDparts rear sway bar, DG Panzer plate, Caterpillar 2m fuel filter, Frostheater, GLI Recaros, GTI 3-spoke steering wheel, Audi S3 shifter, R-line stainless pedals[/URL]

Last edited by eb2143; April 15th, 2010 at 14:03.
eb2143 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2010, 21:05   #1574
TooSlick
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dixie
TDI(s): Audi 100S
Default

eb,

It's normal for the TBN to fluctuate a bit from test to test, so I'm not sure how much significance that has? Elevated nitration can be caused by EGR valve deposits that cause it to remain partially open. You could check that, although this level of nitration is really not bad (if oxidation/nitration are at critical levels, the TBN is typically pretty low and that's not the case here.) As a point of reference, Polaris labs would normally use a lower cutoff of 4.0 for the TBN (ASTM D-4739 test method).

Air filtration is also extremely good and the soot is well in check, both of which help to keep the upper engine metals (Ni, Cr, Al, Fe) low...

These are both excellent reports; the engine is hardly wearing at all. Your change interval is also about right - I like to keep the TBN at change out > 4.0 in the interest of oil deposit control.

TS
TooSlick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2010, 18:23   #1575
tdisky
Veteran Member
 
tdisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middletown, Rhode Island
Default

Hello everyone, this is my first post on this UOA forum, but I have a funny story...

Our daughter was home visiting, and she usually is a very bright and perceptive person (really!), but she asked me:

"Dad, did you have blood work done lately?"

"No, why?"

"Isn't this a blood work report?"

"No, sweetie, it's the used oil analysis for my car."

Then she looked on the bottom, and saw "fuel", "antifreeze", etc. Yes, she was sufficiently embarrassed and I got a good laugh out of it.
__________________
2013 Passat TDI SEL, DSG, Night Blue Metallic (hers)
2012 Volvo C30 T5, 6M, Chameleon Blue (mine)
tdisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.24739 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 142.13 Kb. compressed to 119.72 Kb. by saving 22.40 Kb. (15.76%)]