Installed 11mm now won’t start

thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
I have a manual 2001 Jetta ALH and I bought a 11mm pump because my original 10mm (213,xxx) pump was leaking really bad so I figured, why not.

I got everything on the pump installed and got the timing set and I verified the timing 4x’s before I started cracking.

Started cranking, everything sounded good, cracked the injectors one at a time until fuel was squirting out.

I could not get the thing to fire up for the life of me. There was white smoke coming out of the exhaust. I’ve replaced the 109 relay and I’ve checked all fuses. Also jumped the fuel shut off solenoid with a wire to the battery and I could hear it clicking.

I have the ASV/EGR deleted. The TB and all components were changed out about 10,000 miles ago with parts from IDparts.

The car ran just fine with the original 10mm pump (minus the leaky pump) before I pulled it. I’m out of ideas and any help would be appreciated.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Typically white smoke and no start indicates late timing.

Where'd the pump come from? Had it been sitting unused for a long time?
 
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thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
I just went back out this morning and checked the timing again and it’s still dead on. I bought the pump a while back from a member on here so it’s been sitting for a little bit.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
If you have white smoke, then there is fuel into the cylinders.

Your timing is off - check a 5th time.

If you want to convince yourself and us that it is not the timing, then line up the crank to tdc, take a picture of the mark in the bellhousing...

...Then re and re the vac pump and take a picture of the cam slot...

...Then take a picture of the pump alignment slot/hole with a small mirror and post up all three.

If all three line up, and you have squirting fuel at the injectors, the car will start.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
What Windex said.

White smoke is atomized but unburned fuel. It didn't light because it went into the cylinder at the wrong time (late, usually) and thus was out of the ignition window.

I know, you're sure it's right. There's a VERY high probability you're wrong.
 

Stromaluski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
'67 Deluxe Bus, '80 Rabbit Truck, '92 Corrado, '10 Cup Edition
Stop, hammer time.
This. Have you tried adjusting the QA? Try hammering it toward the driver side of the car. If it's too far toward the passenger side, it just won't start at all. Be ready to turn it off if you move it too far, though.
 

steve6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Location
Beaverton, ON
TDI
2003 jetta tdi
Cant really tell the crank mark but you could try loosening the three bolts and moving the pulley in respect to the shaft, do not remove the big large bolt on the IP.

Pulling fuel through the pump to get all air out would possibly also help
 

thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
I connected the VCDS and pulled 2 fault codes,

17946 - fuel shutoff solenoid
18009 - relay for supply voltage terminal 30

I checked the wires coming off of the solenoid and I didn’t see a break. I also pulled fuse 32 and I was not burnt.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Have to ask: You sure the pump pin is in the hole in the pump, not adjacent to the boss the hole is drilled in? Hard to be sure from the pichers.

If you're getting smoke that tells me the fuel solenoid is opening. Have you cleared the codes and checked if they repeat. Might be leftovers from you working on it.

I'd avoid messing with the QA position except as a last resort. The pump was from a runner, right?
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
If you flipped the key to ON while replacing the the relay or pulling fuses that could be the cause of the codes. Clear them and see if they return while trying to crank again.

Since there is fuel (white smoke) coming out of the exhaust, try advancing the timing and see what happens...loosen the three pump pulley bolts and nudge the center hub bolt towards the front of the car.

There is a possibility that the pump was disassembled and put together improperly.
Does the paint mark (if it is still there) across the 22MM hub mounting nut/shaft end look fractured like the nut was disturbed?

Yet another possibility, if the pump was disassembled, is the cam plate inside was installed 180* out.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Pull the pin from the pump and take a picture with a small dental mirror and a light - there is a reason why I didn't specify the pin inserted.

Greater men have been fooled by the "sucker hole"
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
if the timing piston is stuck it can be in time all day long and fuel perfectly but never start... you can pull the pump and remove the piston covers, if free then it likely has stuck elements in the vane assembly ...you mentioned that it sat awhile before installation, best way to store a pump is full of trans fluid or power steering fluid
 
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thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
Alrighty..... well I tapped out. Not knowing the history of the 11mm pump and chasing my tail, I pulled it back out and put the old pump back in and it fired right up so I’ll sent the 11mm pump in and have it looked at. Thank you guys for your help!!
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
Alrighty..... well I tapped out. Not knowing the history of the 11mm pump and chasing my tail, I pulled it back out and put the old pump back in and it fired right up so I’ll sent the 11mm pump in and have it looked at. Thank you guys for your help!!
bummer man, they're not that hard to take apart and inspect... very simple inside
 

thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
So the follow on question would be...... Who has the best reputation for rebuilding these pumps? Or is it even worth messing with?
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Apologies for questioning your installation.

DFIS In Oregon but it won't be cheap.

I agree with the above post. Open it up yourself. If you find things gummed up clean it up, order a seal kit and close it up. Just make some good marks to locate the QA on reassembly.

Are the paint marks intact on the QA bolts?
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Yeah, DFIS would be my vote too. They went through mine and when it came back it looked like it was (literally) brand new. Worked like it too.
 

jokila

Vendor
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
Not leaking, just not working.
I was referring to the original pump.

I have a manual 2001 Jetta ALH and I bought a 11mm pump because my original 10mm (213,xxx) pump was leaking really bad so I figured, why not.

The car ran just fine with the original 10mm pump (minus the leaky pump) before I pulled it. I’m out of ideas and any help would be appreciated.
Pretty much says it is working, but leaking.
 

thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
The original 10mm pump work fine, just leaking really bad. I bought this 11mm pump some time back and was waiting on time to install it and I just figured a leaky pump was the best time to swap it out.

I just got an email back from DFIS and they said;

“Sorry but that is a TDI pump and we are unable to work on those at this time. We do not possess the proper test equipment to complete the repairs for you.
Thanks for your interest,
John”

So who is next in line after DFIS?
 

hey_allen

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Location
Altus, OK
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Strange, as I was talking with DFIS about having a TDI pump rebuilt, and they were perfectly happy to have me send it in.
Numerous other people here who have had them do pump work as well.

You were talking to the people at DFISPDX.com, correct?

The reason I ask is that there is another diesel shop in Portland that Google will sometimes return as the top result, when searching for diesel fuel injection service in Portland.
(I called them by accident one time, when trying to call DFIS PDX to get a status update on a set of injectors that I had in for service.)
 

thedude78

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Location
Fort Hood, Tx
TDI
2001
Strange, as I was talking with DFIS about having a TDI pump rebuilt, and they were perfectly happy to have me send it in.
Numerous other people here who have had them do pump work as well.

You were talking to the people at DFISPDX.com, correct?

The reason I ask is that there is another diesel shop in Portland that Google will sometimes return as the top result, when searching for diesel fuel injection service in Portland.
(I called them by accident one time, when trying to call DFIS PDX to get a status update on a set of injectors that I had in for service.)

lol Now that you mention it, I was emailing the wrong one. I will call the right company on Monday and speak with them.
 
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