Plastic welding?

clyde · Aug 15, 2014

Has anyone tried plastic welding to modify IC pipes for a conversion?

GTDTDI plastic welded an air filter housing.

But the IC pipes are a different plastic, I believe. A guy at Seelye Inc. told me that the IC pipes might be made of glass-reinforced nylon…

mtushmoo · Aug 15, 2014

Nylons can be glued or epoxied. The glued joint would likely be stronger than a weld, especially if the material is glass filled and some thought is put into the joint.

Polypropylene and polyethylene can't be glued. The are chemically essentially wax. They have to be welded.

burpod · Aug 15, 2014

just get some stock aluminum piping and silicone elbows from siliconeintakes and make you're own. it's not that hard if you think it through. if you know someone who can weld an aluminum bung, upgrade to the mk4 style map sensor while you're at it.

clyde · Aug 15, 2014

As instructed by the plastic experts, I tested a piece of the material—lit it with a match, blew it out. If the smell is like hair burning, it's nylon. It was.

Next I'll try to bond two pieces of this stuff. If they will bond they can be welded.

If the material passes this compatibility test, your glue or epoxy idea sounds great! Particularly if gluing is stronger; it needs strength to resist breaking from internal pressure.

What glue do you recommend?

mtushmoo · Aug 15, 2014

Jb weld is pretty good - especially where there's some heat involved. It's epoxy with powdered aluminum fill.

Surface prep and decreasing is critical. Get every spec of grease off it, and flush it well with solvent like brake or carb cleaner.

Rough up the surface where the epoxy will be so that there's texture for the glue to bite on.

burpod · Aug 15, 2014

jb weld won't hold up, no matter how well you prepare the surface. it will hold for a while, but sooner than later it will start leaking

clyde · Aug 15, 2014

If the epoxy fails "sooner or later," what about the glue you mentioned, mtushmoo? Or did you mean epoxy?

Maybe it's better to weld together a metal pipe—at least metal will last…

clyde · Aug 15, 2014

burpod said:
…upgrade to the mk4 style map sensor

Does MAP stand for manifold air pressure?

burpod · Aug 15, 2014

yes. you can get mk4 map bungs on ebay for <$20 weld to aluminum. then you cut out the one in the ecu and run a couple wire leads. ideally use a 2-pin sealed connector (common) so you can still remove the ecu easily if need be

clyde · Aug 15, 2014

Like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-MK4-MK5-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a1cc2e55&vxp=mtr

Or this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JETTA-GOLF-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item461933d919&vxp=mtr

burpod · Aug 15, 2014

ummm. the first link is a 3bar map sensor - apparently sold on ebay by a vendor here on tdiclub (boraparts).

the 2nd link is the bung you want

mtushmoo · Aug 16, 2014

http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/106532_LT5320_Solutions_for_Auto_Ind.pdf

I've used lots of black max. Page 4.

The joint design is probably more important than the adhesive. Nylon with proper surface treatment sticks pretty good. To live, it really should be a lap joint, rather than a butt joint.

Aluminum tubing isn't terribly expensive, even at

http://www.mcmaster.com./#89965k821/=taxj2v

Mcmaster-carr is rarely the low cost provider. They have hard tempered pipe that's a little less, but isn't bendable. Didn't see any proper elbows there.

A little more research will likely find it cheaper.

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=6061&page=1&sort=4a

is another source - no experience with them, just a google result. 16 gauge they show is about .050" thick.

Find a friend with a TIG welder and go aluminum.

burpod · Aug 16, 2014

speedymetals.com is also a very cheap way to get bulk quality aluminum piping if you have access to a bender. i've ordered from them before and was very happy with the pricing/shipping

clyde · Aug 20, 2014

burpod said:
yes. you can get mk4 map bungs on ebay for <$20 weld to aluminum. Then you cut out the one in the ecu and run a couple wire leads. ideally use a 2-pin sealed connector (common) so you can still remove the ecu easily if need be

The small tube from the original IC pipe to the ECU is for manifold pressure. What's the other sensor? Gotta be air temp…right?

If the other sensor is not for air temperature, what is it for?

If an aluminum pipe with a bung for a manifold pressure sensor is used to replace the original IC pipe, where do you suggest the other sensor be located?

Thanks for the help!

GTiTDi · Aug 20, 2014

the new style map sensors incorporate the iat as well, so no need to add another bung for the old iat sensor

clyde · Aug 20, 2014

GTiTDi said:
the new style map sensors incorporate the iat as well, so no need to add another bung for the old iat sensor

This suggests that a four-wire connector is needed for the Mk4 MAP sensor—two for pressure; two for temperature. (I haven't seen a Mk4 MAP sensor yet.)

Zat right?

burpod · Aug 20, 2014

clyde said:
This suggests that a four-wire connector is needed for the Mk4 MAP sensor—two for pressure; two for temperature. (I haven't seen a Mk4 MAP sensor yet.)

Zat right?

correct.... just need to find/buy the 4-pin MAP connector and plug the female terminal end wires in..

GTiTDi · Aug 20, 2014

or take one from any turbo mk4/beetle/audi in the junkyard

clyde · Aug 21, 2014

Even non-professional wrenches can learn.

GTiTDi · Aug 21, 2014

Clyde, all I was trying to emphasize was that you can get a connector for next to nothing at a salvage yard, no need to spend extra money on a new one.

the rolleyes are directed at Pod...

I like how I am being called arrogant when I am trying to help you out!

grow up

clyde · Aug 21, 2014

Ain't you got no laughter in your soul? Or perhaps humor doesn't have a VW part number.

I appreciate your experience, talent, and creativity. If someone called you "arrogant," you can be sure it wasn't me.

Hypersensitive, maybe.

burpod · Aug 21, 2014

lol. rolleys at me? i did say "find/buy"

sometimes it's easier to just buy a $5 part than the time/effort to track down a car at a junkyard, depending where the closest junkyards are. when i lived in northern MN, a junkyard with any decent VWs in it wasn't even an option

actually, it's $7 from 1stvwparts! but unfortunately i don't think they ship usps 1st class, which would be ~$3

GEE-BEE · Aug 28, 2014

Tubing

Stay away from metal tubing, unless you want heat soak

I mfg custom silicome molded intakes for various platforms

I do 8/10 complete assys per month for stephansautohaus
( vanagon 1.8 T )

We converted his hard tubing with silicone ends to complete silicone assys in 4 ply, no heatsoak, no rubbing problems.

Here is the latest project Iam doing for two of my mk1 builds
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-equipped-intercooler&p=86099209#post86099209

I mfg all the mk1 and mk11 coolant hoses and intake snorkels for mk1autohaus and a few select customers...

GB

GTiTDi · Aug 28, 2014

does four ply resist swelling under boost? how about from sucking in on itself on the TIP side? I prefer to use rigid tubing since it can't inflate....

GEE-BEE · Aug 28, 2014

Silicone Info.

Temp rating -65 to + 450

-50 psi to 200 psi with 4 ply

We use nomex for reforcement

All made in the USA

I die cut and mfg silicone hoses and ducts for the aircraft industry

http://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee-HeatDuct.html

http://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee-ValveCoverGaskets.html

http://www.csobeech.com/GeeBee-BoIntakeDuct.html

We include usa made Breeze aerospace lined clamps on all hoses and ducts.

I also do all the Ducati models as I have a few of those also

Iam running 42 psi on my Porsche 997TT / 680 hp with my larger ducts and AWE Intercoolers

GB

GTiTDi · Aug 28, 2014

I remember posting a link to so coolant hoses you manufactured for VW 8v that I found on the GTD index

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=414823

cool screenname...the GeeBee was sweet looking air racer!

GEE-BEE · Aug 28, 2014

We still mfg the cowl seal for that aircraft, I just finished a cowl seal for the Yak-11

I also mfg the canopy seal for the L39 jet as I have a few freinds with those..

GB

Plastic welding?

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi

Veteran Member

teh stallionz!!1

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi

Veteran Member

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi

Veteran Member