does a diesel make sense in 2015

I am searching for a use jetta in the 2012-13 years.With the low price of gas and the super complex diesel engine that only makes 40 MPG and the potential cost of failure in the HPFP and the DPA and dual cats vs the simple gasser: Does it make sense to buy a diesel, what is the draw?

I'm leaning toward the gasser as I scratch my head to compute how a TDI makes sense to own.
I/m looking for reasons to buy the diesel over the gasser.
Thanks
Bruce

redtdi966 said:

I am searching for a use jetta in the 2012-13 years.With the low price of gas and the super complex diesel engine that only makes 40 MPG and the potential cost of failure in the HPFP and the DPA and dual cats vs the simple gasser: Does it make sense to buy a diesel, what is the draw?
I'm leaning toward the gasser as I scratch my head to compute how a TDI makes sense to own.
I/m looking for reasons to buy the diesel over the gasser.
Thanks
Bruce

Click to expand...

If you do longer drives with mostly highway miles it makes more sense. I have a 2011 with DSG and typically see high-40s to low-50s for mileage on the highway at normal speeds 65-70 mph. Have done over 700 on a tank on one road trip with no stops until I chickened out. If there's one drawback to the long range, it's that you better have a strong bladder! I usually take care of everything when I stop to fill up, which in my old Intrepid was every 400 miles or so. Now, with 600-700 between fill ups I have to plan my road trips differently. If you do lots of city driving, then the advantage starts to go away. I have had my Jetta for nearly 4 years and I love it, despite getting snake bitten by the HPFP last spring. VWoA replaced the whole fuel system gratis, leaving me with a loaner gas Jetta for a week. After trying the 2.5 gasser, I was convinced I had made the right choice. The gasser is not exactly slow, but the diesel throttle response is better IMO and the gasser is far thirstier. Looking at maybe getting another Jetta TDI when this one is finally put out to pasture, or possibly a Golf GTD if that ever comes to the states. What I'd really love to see it a GTD version of the Jetta, call it the GLD or something like that. Stronger engine, sport suspension, possibly even AWD.

redtdi966 said:

I am searching for a use jetta in the 2012-13 years.With the low price of gas and the super complex diesel engine that only makes 40 MPG and the potential cost of failure in the HPFP and the DPA and dual cats vs the simple gasser: Does it make sense to buy a diesel, what is the draw?
I'm leaning toward the gasser as I scratch my head to compute how a TDI makes sense to own.
I/m looking for reasons to buy the diesel over the gasser.
Thanks
Bruce

Click to expand...

I struggled with the decision myself. After driving the TDI, I was impressed with the performance over the 2.5 liter gas engine. I may not have made the right decision based on DPF longevity as my wife does some short drives. However, at least once a month I do a 250 mile highway trip. This is my first diesel and was intrigued by the technology. I like to get good fuel economy but I am not obsessed by it. Certainly is much better than my Allroad. I simply made a personal decision (supported by my wife), that I wanted to try a diesel despite any short comings it may have today.

At this point, I consider diesel to be a luxury feature. If you value the luxury of diesel performance, go for it. I don't see a cost savings. The complexity is going to affect long term residual value, sooner or later. The perceived longevity of diesel versus gas is mostly urban legend also. The case for diesel is weak today- IMO.

While I'm enjoying lower fuel cost right now. I don't believe for one minute it will last long.

This same question gets posted over and over again, and the answers and opinions are usually the same.

Money wise, it makes little sense. There are cheaper to operate cars out there.

However, some of us still find redeeming qualities in our diesels even if they don't always make financial sense. It is really up to the individual to decide.

Since I have a 2002 TDI, I'll keep it until....? Cheapest car for me sofar. Drives every Day and needs a FILL-UP every 2 weeks or so. But only YOU know what is good for your purse.

oilhammer said:

This same question gets posted over and over again, and the answers and opinions are usually the same.

Money wise, it makes little sense. There are cheaper to operate cars out there.

However, some of us still find redeeming qualities in our diesels even if they don't always make financial sense. It is really up to the individual to decide.

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I agree with Oilhammer I have a 2012 jetta tdi and just love it. I went back and fourth about the HPFP but have see that VW had covered it even with 100K on the clock so that made the decision a little easier. I do love the pickup of the car and it's just fun to drive. Oh and gas will go back up. I did like when diesel was 2.29 a gallon here but of course when gas went back up diesel followed.

oilhammer said:

This same question gets posted over and over again, and the answers and opinions are usually the same.
Money wise, it makes little sense. There are cheaper to operate cars out there.
However, some of us still find redeeming qualities in our diesels even if they don't always make financial sense. It is really up to the individual to decide.

Click to expand...

It does make financial sense- you just have to do a more nuanced analysis. It's so much more than just calculation of fuel cost per mile over some arbitrary projected period compared to a gasser.

First, the delta in resale value for the TDIs is such that when it comes time to sell, a very big percentage of the initial difference in price compared to a gas engine comes right back to you.

Next, most fuel cost-based analyses are for too short a timeframe. People who buy TDis tend to hold them, and so for a real user- as opposed to a spreadsheet jockey- pure fuel cost analyses still offer a payback compared to a gasser.

Finally, the supposed maintenance cost delta for TDis compared to gassers is real for those that have had serious failures like the HPFP, but in real terms, relatively few of those failures actually occur, so the actual risk, expressed in terms of cost and exposure, is low, and probably comparable to gassers, when you control for the kinds of problems that gas engines have that diesels do not (like spark plug replacement, etc).

When you add all of these factors together, I suggest that is most cases, the TDI is actually cheaper to own over the long term.

And, of course, none of this takes into account the unique benefits of diesel engines, like long range, high torque and theoretical longevity.

I think the gist of the response so far are spot-on. A TDI is no longer the value it once was, and there are some "intangibles" like torque, long tank range, and general diesel-dorky stuff that make them appealing to some.

I'm looking for my next car and I just simply don't like anything else in my price range. I like certain things about some other cars but, IMO, a Golf or Jetta TDI is the whole package. I wish I could be perfectly happy with a 2-3 year old Acura or Infiniti, but for some reason I just want to get another TDI and nothing else will do! I have high hopes that the EA288 will find another ALH-like sweet spot in terms of reliability and longevity.

There are cheaper cars to operate but not that many, and they also have drawbacks. Cars cheaper to operate than a TDI will probably be fairly uninspiring to those attracted to VWs/TDIs - Corolla, Civic, Impreza, Focus, etc. There are many cars that likely have operating costs similar to a Jetta TDI but they're larger and have higher fuel consumption - Camry, Accord, Sonata, Fusion, etc. And there are cars that are much more costly to operate - BMW, Mercedes, large trucks/SUVs, etc.

A few other things to consider. Gasoline engines are also becoming more complex with direct injection and all. Today's Hondas/Toyotas don't seem to have the same high reliability as the older models, although they're still quite reliable. I think many of us have been worrying about HPFP failures, intercooler icing, and DPF failures. Intercooler issues have been resolved with EA288 and hopefully HPFP issues too. As for DPF issues, I peruse this forum a lot and haven't see too many threads about failed DPFs on the earlier A6s but no doubt they will need to be replaced but probably not before 200K miles. I know from experience in large diesel vehicles, highway driving is much easier on DPFs than stop/start and short trips and I suspect the same will hold true for DPFs on TDIs.

So, if you meet a particular set of parameters, a TDI makes sense. One of the biggest would be that you're willing to accept the possibility of some additional mechanical issues. This is unacceptable to some but for others, it's more than made up by the "intangibles." If out-and-out cost to operate is your main concern, a TDI isn't a good choice, but I'm not sure something like a Jetta TSI would be a better choice although a 2.0L would probably be.

I love how so many people like to throw the awful "spark plug" out there, like it is some crutch to gasoline engines.

With the exception of Ford's Triton engines (2 valvers spit them out, 3 valvers seize them in, and now they added a whole extra set), spark plugs are a non-issue. They last a long, long time, are generally not terribly expensive, and on pretty much all modern 4 cylinder cars are painfully quick and easy to replace. You could put all four plugs in a Nissan QA 4 cylinder in less time than it takes to replace the fuel filter in any TDI, and it only needs that done once for every five times the TDI needs that fuel filter changed.

So please, 1970 called, they want their ideas on gasoline engine ignition maintenance back, OK?

The things that stack AGAINST the TDI, cost wise, are the high initial purchase price, the higher PM costs, and the higher likelihood of a costly repair. Granted, some of this is just because it is a Volkswagen, and not necessarily because it is a diesel. Like the three dead Delphi radios we had this month... they die in TDI Jettas just the same as they do in gasser Jettas. But the turbochargers, the DPFs, the pressure sensors, etc.? Now that's all TDI.

Our shop's loaner Kia Forte, which is a nicely optioned up EX model, cost a whopping NINE GRAND less than the CHEAPEST TDI available at the time. Three years later, NOTHING has broken on it, and its PM items consist of oil changes every 7500 miles, with bulk [cheap] 5w20, a genuine Hyundai/Kia oil filter for a whole $6, a genuine Hyundai/Kia air and cabin filters for about $20, and a few tire rotations... When the car hits 100,000 miles, we'll sell it and get another. Sure, its resale value isn't great, but when you DIDN'T spend it in the first place....

(BTW, I think the Forte is a nice car... for someone else, not for me. But I won't argue that it is not an outstanding value of a car, it most certainly is).

I work in a engine rebuilding shop ( 21 years) and lately all we're seeing is problems with Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, GM, etc. Oil burning, random misfires and this is on 2011's and up. A lot of the problems are due to the direct injection. Do we see any TDI's? Never. I can't remember seeing any of the old stuff. So I'll stick to my diesel.

Ahh... Diesels. We like them. We like their torque, we like their range, and we like the driving experience. I suppose we also like to be a bit different.

VW's? Allow me to put it this way... I just climbed out of a Subaru SE which in theory is at about the same trim level as my Passat SE. I understand that the two are very different vehicles in many respects but I'd expect the interior accommodations to be about equal. I'm here to tell you it ain't so! And the same may be said for a number of other SE level cars I've experienced. The Passat SE is far nicer.

The argument about diesel vs gas? Diesel will beat the gasser as far as cost of fuel per mile driven. The rest is questionable. Given that we do all our own service on our TDI's their total cost per mile has been minimal. And we like the smell of diesel vs. alcohol diluted gasoline I guess. We also like that spilled diesel is of virtually no concern while spilled gasoline is a potential bomb under the right circumstances.

Now there's one last thing which influences our purchases of diesels. Some may consider this strange. Understand that I'm not predicting doomsday. I am, however, aware that we (family) always have bulk diesel available in quantity. I'm also aware that diesel fuel can be made from just about any organic matter if necessary. Gasoline not so much as far as potential availability in an emergency right on to long term storage.

So I guess we'll continue with diesels. Others will choose gasoline or even electric. Purchase whatever suits your needs best and be happy. Don't purchase a TDI because you see it as an economy car. It's not!

Boostaddiction said:

It does make financial sense- you just have to do a more nuanced analysis. It's so much more than just calculation of fuel cost per mile over some arbitrary projected period compared to a gasser.

First, the delta in resale value for the TDIs is such that when it comes time to sell, a very big percentage of the initial difference in price compared to a gas engine comes right back to you.

Next, most fuel cost-based analyses are for too short a timeframe. People who buy TDis tend to hold them, and so for a real user- as opposed to a spreadsheet jockey- pure fuel cost analyses still offer a payback compared to a gasser.

Finally, the supposed maintenance cost delta for TDis compared to gassers is real for those that have had serious failures like the HPFP, but in real terms, relatively few of those failures actually occur, so the actual risk, expressed in terms of cost and exposure, is low, and probably comparable to gassers, when you control for the kinds of problems that gas engines have that diesels do not (like spark plug replacement, etc).

When you add all of these factors together, I suggest that is most cases, the TDI is actually cheaper to own over the long term.

And, of course, none of this takes into account the unique benefits of diesel engines, like long range, high torque and theoretical longevity.

Click to expand...

This applies more accurately if you are comparing comparable passenger vehicles, and choosing between a gasoline vs diesel engine.

What OH is saying, not that it needs much more clarity, is that a cheap new car will usually cost less financially, even considering all the factors of TCO, over a new $25,000 TDI.

The primary loss in TCO is depreciation. Barring a major, uncovered (non warranty) repair, and given average use per year, the second factor is fuel cost. If you save enough in initial purchase price on a car that gets even reasonable FE, it will be tough to save money in TCO unless your savings in fuel with the TDI are well beyond the average. The differences in all other factors of TCO will be insufficient to overcome the difference in initial purchase price.

As OH said, the question comes up over and over. It rarely becomes a good discussion of TCO, but rather someone who is trying to justify the purchase of a TDI, or oppose it.

Arguments or considerations outside of costs, such as range, torque, comfort, style, etc. have no impact on TCO.

That being said, I would not likely buy a gasser again, and would love to drive my Mk IV as long as possible.

If you'd like a more nuanced post on my TCO, please see this thread, which does, in fact, show what it takes for a new TDI (from 2003) to cost less to own than the average passenger vehicle.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=400753

A5INKY said:

While I'm enjoying lower fuel cost right now. I don't believe for one minute it will last long.

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This will be the key here. I would put good money down on this not being the "norm" for very long.


Also consider stating "only 40mpg" for the TDI makes it sound bad, or inadequate. Just because the commercials for every other car out there claims 40mpg, doesn't mean it gets it. Ford, Mazda, Toyota and a few others just had to settle a few lawsuits for false MPG claims and altering test conditions/data for the most favorable results...

You won't find many [non-hybrid] gassers out there, with any hope of "power" averaging close to that 40mpg mark. Even then, most of us here average well above the "mixed driving" rating with our TDIs.


As far as the price of fuel being lower? I hardly noticed a difference in my bank account. $35/600mi or $45/600mi...big deal. I like that I am fairly immune to fuel price differences with our two TDIs.

I just received an email from an old friend who's been hearing about the '15 Golf Sportwagen TDI. He asked if he should consider a diesel. I wrote back no, he shouldn't. He doesn't care much about cars, hates unexpected expenses, and doesn't drive a whole lot. And he is concerned about overall ownership cost.

He's always been a Honda fan, and I think he should get a new Fit. They look great, the packaging is amazing, FE is good enough, and they cost 2/3 what a Golf Sportwagen will cost. And it will just run and run.

I love my TDIs. I don't have any desire to own any gasoline car, unless someone wants to gift me a Cayman. Even then, it would probably sit in the garage while I drive my wagon. But they're not for everyone.

Comparing oranges with oranges. 2015 Jetta TDI vs 1.8TSI. Highway milage 46mpg vs 36mpg. That is almost 30% better. In my area gas is about 30% (60 cents/gallon) cheaper than diesel. So with current prices it is a wash based purely on fuel economy. If gas went up to $4 a gallon then those 60 cents difference (which in summer will be less) would suddenly become 15%. Before fuel prices crashed my TDI was 3 cents per mile cheaper to drive than my Golf 2.5.

k^2 said:

Comparing oranges with oranges. 2015 Jetta TDI vs 1.8TSI. Highway milage 46mpg vs 36mpg. That is almost 30% better. In my area gas is about 30% (60 cents/gallon) cheaper than diesel. So with current prices it is a wash based purely on fuel economy. If gas went up to $4 a gallon then those 60 cents difference (which in summer will be less) would suddenly become 15%. Before fuel prices crashed my TDI was 3 cents per mile cheaper to drive than my Golf 2.5.

Click to expand...

It is important to run the numbers, and decide based on ones' priorities. Prices and spreads fluctuations are a given.

Local prices snap shot: RUG $2.71, ULSD $2.99 puts CPMD: fuel @ .0753/.065. Over 100,000 miles that would be $7,530- $6,500= $1, 030. That "WASH", @ today's ULSD prices would buy 15,846 commute miles. For us, that is 1 year's commute (@ 41 mpg) .

I could care less looking at the pennies per mile to justify what "fun" car I drive. If you can't justify a TDI then buy whatever you want. Trying to sway TDI owners to convert, particularly in a TDI forum...seems a little pedantic

grey matter said:

I work in a engine rebuilding shop ( 21 years) and lately all we're seeing is problems with Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, GM, etc. Oil burning, random misfires and this is on 2011's and up. A lot of the problems are due to the direct injection. Do we see any TDI's? Never. I can't remember seeing any of the old stuff. So I'll stick to my diesel.

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VAG DI gassers have the exact same problems. You probably don't see many in your rebuilding shop because there simply are not that many sold there.

"Pedantic"... I like that!

It seems that TDI owners come in different general categories. I find it interesting to follow these boards and read the comments posted.

Before I go further I'll pick on owners such as myself. The first TDI to come into our family was an abused '98 New Beetle. My son picked it up for a bargain price and we found out why as he drove it home. Limp mode with a CEL as we headed north on the PA Turnpike. I spent a full week under, around, and through that car correcting all the mistakes that had been made in a vain attempt to fix it. Way too many incompetent hands had touched that car. In the end it was a totally coked EGR cooler/warmer... And all the mistakes made in the process of not fixing it. This is how I learned to "speak" VW.

The result of my week of work was an amazing little car and we (family) began to reduce our fleet of diesel pickups from three to one. There's a huge difference between 15 mpg and 40+ mpg. After the Beetle came a string of A4's of which one is still with us. Then my excellent A5 and now three NMS cars.

I believe, based on personal experience, that there are those of us who simply WILL own a TDI. We're aware of the shortfalls but we're also aware that our TDI's return an experience worth the price of admission. We appreciate the characteristics of the TDI and there just isn't much more to say.

Another segment of owners here look at reliability and total cost of ownership. Many in the A4 camp claim their cars to be the most reliable and cost effective of the line. I certainly can't argue with their claims and I've had my hands in a lot of them. These same owners in the main service their own vehicles and are very aware of their needs. Certainly I agree that the A4 is simplistic and perhaps less costly to maintain than the A5 and newer cars, but the newer models do have their charms. My A5 which is a model supposed to be problematic was virtually trouble free from the time I purchased it at 55k miles until I sold it at 180k miles.

Then the group of us looking for economy and nothing else. Big mistake! The VW TDI is by no means an economy car. It's somewhat expensive right out of the gate. VW by its very nature comes with a laundry list of demands. Some call them recommendations but they aren't. Add TDI to the badge and the list becomes more expensive and complicated. Add an owner who pinches pennies and delays or ignores required services and it's game on because the TDI will eventually bite. Then, of course, the expense involved for maintenance and repairs especially at a dealership. Ouch!

And dealerships. Not just VW dealerships but a problem endemic to the entire industry. Unfortunately for some of us and for dealerships, the TDI requires a certain level of talent and commitment by tech/mechanics. I hate to say it but such a person is a rare breed today. Ask your tech to explain a four stroke engine and chances are he'll fail. Then ask how a diesel differs from a gasoline engine and about the best you might expect is that your tech will know that a diesel lacks spark plugs. Very sad! It really doesn't matter the brand because incompetence is rampant everywhere.

My advice? I don't have any for the first two general types of owners. We'll do what we'll do and happily criticize one another while we pilot our TDI's down the road. And even though our reasons for TDI ownership somewhat differ, we at least understand why we own a TDI.

For the last group I do have advice. If you own a TDI, then find a trusted mechanic/tech. Keep your services up to date and pay the man happily. You'll find his services to be more of an investment than an expense.

If only considering purchase of a TDI, then run away. Purchase a Kia or some such. Abuse it, delay services, and generally run the wheels off it. You'll probably not really enjoy the driving experience nor will you ever see a constant 50+ mpg either. But maybe that's beside the point if all you care about is getting from one point to another.

Bottom line? For some of us it's about how we get from point to point. For others it's only about getting from point to point. "How" makes all the difference in what vehicle might be best suited to our needs. Purchase the vehicle best suited to your needs and your budget.

If you loke the torque and have a need for it then the diesels are great, but the downstream costs are high for the VW.
I tow a little, but VW USA does not recognize the towing capability of the Diesel like Europe.
Take that out of the equation then the torque makes less sense.
The VW Diesel has a pretty big downside with the DPF, HPFP, DMF, etc.
I noe have close to 230,000 miles on my 2009 JSW and while I like driving the car it is approaching time for another timing belt, The DPF has been replaced with a downpipe and tune (Cracked DPF). The DMF has started ratteling and so the flywheel needs to be replaced. I don't know about the clutch pack, but I wonder if for the price of admission if I should change it as well? (Oilhammer, do you have an opinion?)
The A/C delay and RCV has been done the roof leaks have been fixed, the 2 Micron protection installed, The P2015 stop installed. What else?
The maintenance adds up to about another year's car payments.....
While I like this car for driving it is an expensive thing to own. If I could not do some work myself it would be even more expensive. At 67 years I am a little over wanting to work on my cars for enjoyment. This thing cost more than an airplane to maintain!
There is not enough differiential in fuel mileage and cost of fuel for Diesel to make sense unless you need the low rpm torque for real. The limitations VW USA puts on the towing negates any benefit for the average owner that follows the owner's manual.
My answer is a resounding NO it makes no sense.......Whatever unless you like the poke in the backsides from low speed.
When you are at speed you quickly find that the horsepower is not there and the accelleration is limited by that factor.
Horsepower = (torque X RPM)/ 5252. 140 hp only gets you so much, but it does come at a lower RPM.
I am pretty sure that this 2009 will be my last VW.
I am looking at the Hyundai Santa Fe GLS, but it will be a few years at any rate since it looks like I will be injecting more capital into the JSW and I need to amortize that.
Does anyone have any idea what a 2009 JSW with 230,000 miles is worth?
The books say that I an throwing away money already!

I think pretty much any modern turbo with a manual transmission will have a high pressure fuel pump and a dual-mass flywheel; also every modern diesel has a particulate filter, I wouldn't just pin VW with those 'downfalls'.

For me the car is a good fit. The stout torque curve makes it great on the twisty back roads I normally drive on. I can cruise at 100 mph on the freeway with total comfort and control (and quiet! because the diesel is so quiet at speed).

Also despite all of the groaning over catastrophic failures of some components for some people the CR TDI engine is more reliable than the TSI engine.

It is the entire, composed, stoic feel of the car that makes the TDI so nice. It is the most pleasurable manual powertrain I've driven (not the most powerful granted). Just effortless, smooth, composed, damped/tight suspension, great electric steering-- it just feels right. Other cars with similar feel while driving are more expensive.

manny_c44 said:

I think pretty much any modern turbo with a manual transmission will have a high pressure fuel pump and a dual-mass flywheel; also every modern diesel has a particulate filter, I wouldn't just pin VW with those 'downfalls'.
For me the car is a good fit. The stout torque curve makes it great on the twisty back roads I normally drive on. I can cruise at 100 mph on the freeway with total comfort and control (and quiet! because the diesel is so quiet at speed).
Also despite all of the groaning over catastrophic failures of some components for some people the CR TDI engine is more reliable than the TSI engine.
It is the entire, composed, stoic feel of the car that makes the TDI so nice. It is the most pleasurable manual powertrain I've driven (not the most powerful granted). Just effortless, smooth, composed, damped/tight suspension, great electric steering-- it just feels right. Other cars with similar feel while driving are more expensive.

Click to expand...

All of those things are correct, but do you have 230k miles on the car yet?
Have you had the pleasure of the costs of maintenance for the joy?
All cars have maintenance costs, but I wonder just what the premium might be to enjoy the above?
Not meaning to be argumentative, but the pleasure has a cost and it can get pretty high. So far as I put the miles on almost every thing that has come up on the forums has bee seen on my car. If I have missed anything I am sure it is just around the corner.
I have nenjoyed the driving, but I am getting ready to spend another $ 2500 or so on maintenance. (Timing belt, DMF, and check that worry about the hex drive shaft for the oil pump, and swap CV joints side to side.) The basic diesel long block may last quite a while, its the auxillary equipment that cost the money.

The dual mass flywheel isn't a maintenance liability-- if you get 230k out of your clutch setup that is pretty good, I had to swap my Civic clutch at 100k.

Also if you want hassle free reliability than it usually means near-perfect simplicity, like a Honda Fit engine. But it also means 100lb/ft at 6000rpm and all that entails.

But you're right, you pay for the luxury. Although for me personally, I will probably never put 230k on a car, especially not in 6 years like you have. Usually I do 12,000 miles per year (I drive long distances, but not every day). So my hope is that at the 10 year mark, with 120,000k I will have avoided catastrophe and will be looking for a new car. Don't think it's an unreasonable expectation.

I am an industrial maintenance / reliability "expert" and I kinda expect things to work when maintained properly.
I have pretty high standards for work and I expect that to carry over into a car as well.
I don't abuse the car and I expect that the engineers and manufacturers did their job right.
I also expect that problems are worked out over time and relaibility improves through a production sequence.
VW doesn't learn particularly well the roof drain a point in question along with the oil pump drives. They also don't spend a lot of time thinking about how to contain costs like the 2009 DPF and cats.
So you live and learn. I typically put over 250,000 miles and 10 years at least on a car.
Currently I have a 1990 Suburban, a 2002 Prius and the 2009 JSW. The JSW has cost more than the other two cars combined and also more than the 1998 Plymouth Caravan I gave to my daughter at 260,000 miles thrown in to boot.
An economy car the VW TDI is not.
I was thinking better about the car with the upcoming timing belt change when the DSG started making noise. It is basically a crapshoot with the turbo and HPFP still looming.
I hesitated getting into a turbo car having avoided them always, but the Diesel is easier on them so I decided what the heck I'll try one. We will see!
On the positive side SWMBP says that the JSW is her all time favorite car, but them she just drives it. Let the thing develop a new vibration or noise and I hear about it pretty quick.

Given your experiences and background, the real question going forward( IF you decide the 09 Jetta SportWagon is NOT a keeper:

What are your top 5 competitors choices ?

My take is ANY modern car should be able able to hit a major tune (100,000 to 120,000) with scheduled maintenance, IF not multiple major tunes.

My 2004 Honda Civic (@175,000 miles) was actually more consumptive of consumable parts than my 2003 VW Jetta TDI with like miles (it is now @ app 187,000 miles). I was told by Honda (and indy Honda garage) about consumable parts, so it was no surprise.

It also blew past it cost wise with a need to change its intake manifold. Now, I am not unhappy with the Civic in any way.

For what it's worth here's my cost breakdown for my 06. I bought it with 140K miles which was considered in my calculations. The previous owner spent $8K on stealership done maintenance and repair (which would have been a warning if I had gotten the records before the deal). I recently had the dual mass flywheel replaced by a repair shop and I recently replaced the timing belt, front wheel bearings, cv axles, and EGR cooler myself. A few of those DIY items would have been fairly pricey at a shop or stealership.

current mileage 187500
current fuel cost 2.39
purchase price / mileage 0.21
maintenance / current mileage 0.08
current fuel cost per gallon / MPG 0.05
Cost per mile 0.34
x 17K / yr = 5780

redtdi966 said:

I am searching for a use jetta in the 2012-13 years.With the low price of gas and the super complex diesel engine that only makes 40 MPG and the potential cost of failure in the HPFP and the DPA and dual cats vs the simple gasser: Does it make sense to buy a diesel, what is the draw?
I'm leaning toward the gasser as I scratch my head to compute how a TDI makes sense to own.
I/m looking for reasons to buy the diesel over the gasser.
Thanks
Bruce

Click to expand...

"Buy straw hats in winter, summer will surely come". Cheap gas is not going to last long. As soon as the Saudis put shale oil out of business you will see prices rise again.

Buy a discounted high mpg car now while the rest of the world are getting back into SUVs. If you do mostly around town/short trips hybrid is king. On the road TDI rules. I do 90 miles a day on the freeway and seeing 50+ mpg is pretty amazing.

I love my TDI. However I am retired & do not drive enough to justify a diesel.

I probably will buy one more new car in two to three years from now (I'm 70 ). From what I have looked at it will probable be a Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4 or a Subaru Forester.