www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI (Diesel) Emissions

TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 2nd, 2019, 11:20   #61
kjclow
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Fuel Economy: 55 max / 44 avg on beetle ~37 on JSW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
So basically light duty diesel engines smaller than 3.0L range are pretty much non-existent nowadays in North America and in the foreseeable future!
Yup, with the exception of the 2.8 that GM uses in the Colorado/canyon. Not sure what size Mazda is using.
__________________
2010 silver/black JSW TDI with DSG, 2011 red Golf TDI with dsg, 2003 red/gray Passat 1.8l gasser
kjclow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2019, 12:28   #62
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

And the 2.5L Roxor, if you're willing to jump through some hoops to make it street legal. Arguably more of a Jeep than anything FCA makes today.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2019, 13:12   #63
Matt-98AHU
Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
 
Matt-98AHU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vallejo, CA
Fuel Economy: Depends on which TDI :)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjclow View Post
Yup, with the exception of the 2.8 that GM uses in the Colorado/canyon. Not sure what size Mazda is using.
I think it's a 2.1 or 2.2L Mazda's using.

And the EPA rating on it isn't that spectacular for a vehicle its size, though some early adopters have reported bettering the EPA numbers on the highway by 3-5 MPG.
__________________
Sole Proprietor, Diesel Autowerks in San Anselmo, CA. One man operation, email is preferred method of contact: email me with inquiries for service.
Matt-98AHU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 07:44   #64
compu_85
Gadget Guy
 
compu_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Fuel Economy: 3.3 Mi/kWh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
...
And here's the emission control label...
Does the 1.4TSI have the "feature" like some Kia and Ford DI motors I've observed that when you punch if after driving gently for a while, a huge cloud of brown gunk blows out the exhaust?

I never observed this on our room mate's 2.0 TSI Tiguan.

-J
__________________
Present:
2018 Tesla Model 3 DM. 47,000 miles.
2014 Cadillac ELR. 38,000 miles.
2013 Fiat 500e. 28,000 miles.
1991 Mercedes 350SDL 230,000 miles, 70,000 on engine. 18/27 MPG.
Past:
99.5 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 323,000 miles. Power Memory Seats, HIDs 11mm pump, BV39 Turbo, RCIII 36/47 MPG. Sold to JDSwann's Brother.
2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 114,000 miles. LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs. Bought back by VW.
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles. Sold to Matt98AHU w/ flat camshafts.
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.
Thank you for giving me the BUG*PWR award. It means a lot to me!

Check out the official TDIClub Chat Room!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
compu_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 07:50   #65
compu_85
Gadget Guy
 
compu_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Fuel Economy: 3.3 Mi/kWh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Y'all haven't experienced anything until you've driven a diesel Vanagon (48hp)
I figure I should drop this here (Yes, this is oilhammer's diesel Vanangon):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bueQy3mSnKg

I'm watching the speedo so close so I can see the shift marks!

-J
__________________
Present:
2018 Tesla Model 3 DM. 47,000 miles.
2014 Cadillac ELR. 38,000 miles.
2013 Fiat 500e. 28,000 miles.
1991 Mercedes 350SDL 230,000 miles, 70,000 on engine. 18/27 MPG.
Past:
99.5 Jetta "GLX" TDI. 323,000 miles. Power Memory Seats, HIDs 11mm pump, BV39 Turbo, RCIII 36/47 MPG. Sold to JDSwann's Brother.
2012 Passat SE TDI DSG. 114,000 miles. LED tails, Memory Seat, HIDs. Bought back by VW.
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 165,000 miles. Sold to Matt98AHU w/ flat camshafts.
1988 Audi 5000S Quattro, 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel, 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel.
Thank you for giving me the BUG*PWR award. It means a lot to me!

Check out the official TDIClub Chat Room!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUSSELS BELGIAN View Post
Maybe I should pay MYSELF to do bad work on my car!
compu_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 08:21   #66
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

To be fair, the governor in the pump was stuck solid during that race... so it does run much better now. *Might* even win it!
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 11:43   #67
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Does the 1.4TSI have the "feature" like some Kia and Ford DI motors I've observed that when you punch if after driving gently for a while, a huge cloud of brown gunk blows out the exhaust?
I never observed this on our room mate's 2.0 TSI Tiguan.
-J
The bugaboo with gasoline engines is controlling the temperature of everything post-combustion. Pistons, exhaust valves, catalysts. When running at stoichiometric (necessary for 3-way catalysts to function), exhaust temperature is very close to the highest it can be. The easy way to control it is to go rich under heavy load, and it's pretty obvious that the Ford Ecoboost engines do that. Even normally-aspirated engines can require meltdown protection under load, but nowadays it's usually well above what's seen in normal driving conditions, and frequently the engine controls contain an internal mathematical model, and only go into rich protection mode after a period of time at high load, i.e. not very often. Turbo engines can require rich protection mode much more frequently ... in the case of a friend's Ford Explorer Ecoboost, any time it has a trailer in tow. The exhaust pipe is very black inside.

Mazda and Toyota are addressing this via high compression and fast combustion (which lower EGT) ... and both Skyactiv and Dynamic Force were conceived as non-turbo engines, although market forces appear to be dictating that they install turbochargers anyhow.

A lot of newer gasoline engines have the exhaust manifold cast into the cylinder head. This allows cooling jackets to be completely around it, which clips the top off the EGT peaks (and also gets the engine to warm up faster, which is also better for emissions - and interior heating). The Chrysler Pentastar is like this and I know that at least some of the newer VW gasoline engines are like this. Doesn't help the exhaust valves but it does help with catalyst protection.
__________________
Brian P.
formerly ... 2006 Jetta TDI 5-sp, Spice Red, Unitronics stage 1, 0.681 5th gear.
and before that ... 1996 Passat TDI, Silk Blue
GoFaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 12:24   #68
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Honda V6s are like that too, except UNlike the Pentastar, I've never seen one burn an exhaust valve. And they do not eat catalysts, either. But Honda will be phasing those out soon in place of turbo fours, which are already proving fragile. Sad, Honda's V6s have always been VERY good engines. All of them, even back into the '80s (although I have done a few head gaskets some older ones).

This is why I get a chuckle out of the EV fan boys posting things about major manufacturers halting or cutting back ICE development, like that is a bad thing. No, it is a good thing. Some of them should have stopped a while ago (EA888, cough, hack, barf). Not much left, they are, or were, as good as they'll get within the confines of reasonable cost and durability. I do not feel there is ANY engine sold today that will last as long as some previous designs. And this is from any manufacturer.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com

Last edited by oilhammer; October 3rd, 2019 at 12:27.
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 16:03   #69
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
I do not feel there is ANY engine sold today that will last as long as some previous designs. And this is from any manufacturer.
I drove my '93 300D to work today and was thinking as it was quietly cruising up the freeway what a great trip car this would be, and how much more peace of mind I'd have driving it than a newer Mercedes, even a diesel, despite my car having almost 200K on it. I feel the same way driving my ALH on a road trip versus the GSW or BMW.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 400K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 260K; 2011 335d, 63K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 13K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2019, 16:08   #70
Lightflyer1
Veteran Member
 
Lightflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Default

My 1972 Cadillac was that way as well. It would bankrupt you to take it on a trip today though. Very nice highway trip car though.
__________________
How to post pics:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...t=post+picture
Lightflyer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2019, 04:29   #71
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

The spike in engine replacements, or at least, engines in need of replacement, that our shop sees, is pretty astounding. Granted, *most* of the time it stems from neglect, but it isn't like THAT is anything new. People have been neglecting cars as long as cars have been around.

It is the lack of resilience so many of the newer stuff has makes poor choices but more costly much more quickly. We've probably had 50+ GM engines through our shop this year that needed replacement. We do not sell all the jobs, since in many cases the owner cannot afford it, and/or the vehicle in question is a valueless turd that would only serve to lower the value of the new engine once installed. That 1.4L turbo engine GM has is one of the worst (Trax, optional in the Cruze and Sonic, as well as the Buick versions of those cars). Followed closely by the 2.4L DI Ecotec engine and that 3.6L V6 that GM cannot seem to figure out the chain drive (they are on the 6th or 7th revision now). And of course the truck V6s and V8s with that stupid cylinder deactivation nonsense and cam-in-a-cam phasing stuff that has zero tolerance for poor oil condition/level. We JUST did a 5.3L in a 2014 Silverado last week.

And Ford must've realized 20 weight oil is not any good in the trucks, because the 2016 F250 6.2L V8 we did a couple weeks ago (which spec'd 5w20) was replaced with a brand new updated version (seriously, updated... since 2016!?!?!?!) with an oil cap that showed 5w30, a different oil pan, dipstick, and dipstick tube, with a little note attached to it stating the change in oil requirements and the additional .75 q of capacity.

FCA did something similar with the Hemi V8s in their trucks, that now spec 0w40 instead of the 5w20 they were using.

I think this is why Honda is having so many problems with their turbo fours, they still spec a 0w20 in them. Most of the rest (Hyundai, Ford, GM) may spec a 5w20 or 0w20 in non-turbo engines, but still use 5w30 in the turbos. Which is why I fear for the new VAG engines with the 508/9 0w20. I regularly see EA888s chomp through 5w40 like a fat guy through donuts on cheat day, I can only imagine the perpetually dry dipsticks that will ensue with 0w20 in the crankcase.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2019, 07:02   #72
kjclow
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Fuel Economy: 55 max / 44 avg on beetle ~37 on JSW
Default

What's the issue with the cylinder deactivation?

One company I worked for many years past provided their salespeople with company cars and coupons for service. I was sitting in the fleet managers office one day when she got the call from the leasing company wanting to know where to deliver this one car. Seems the salesman didn't know he was supposed to get the oil changed. He only had 35k on the original oil when the engine seized. I know that's not what got him fired, but it started the ball rolling.
__________________
2010 silver/black JSW TDI with DSG, 2011 red Golf TDI with dsg, 2003 red/gray Passat 1.8l gasser
kjclow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2019, 07:52   #73
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjclow View Post
What's the issue with the cylinder deactivation?

.
Under the intake, bolted to the top of the block in the lifter valley, is a valve body with a bunch of solenoids and passages running all over. These gunk up and quit working, causing lifter/cam/valve/piston and sometimes complete engine failure. The older engines didn't have this, so it wasn't even there to break.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2019, 08:21   #74
compu_85
Gadget Guy
 
compu_85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Fuel Economy: 3.3 Mi/kWh
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
...That 1.4L turbo engine GM has is one of the worst...
I think that's the motor my ELR has (sans turbo). I suppose it's good it doesn't see much use

I changed the oil for the first time last month... actually super easy to do.

-J
compu_85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2019, 08:40   #75
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut Vendor
 
oilhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: St Louis
Fuel Economy: fantastic
Default

Oil changes are easy. Changing turbos is easy. Changing valve covers is easy. Changing intake manifolds is easy. Changing the engine is easy. I've done them all, multiple times.
__________________
oilhammer
www.cardocautomotive.com
oilhammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thank you EPA & Cal EPA… PacCoastFwy923 Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal 43 November 20th, 2016 11:51
flexing turbo vanes Joshinthecity TDI 101 4 February 12th, 2005 21:00
Newbie with new muscles thanks to TDI! Mark Mellblom TDI 101 6 May 10th, 2002 06:57


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.14789 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 143.51 Kb. compressed to 121.30 Kb. by saving 22.20 Kb. (15.47%)]