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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old June 14th, 2018, 13:26   #16
Dieselkraut
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Got on the phone with the dealer:
According to TSB - 2035641-3 No Mesh Air Filter shall be used as it can cause MAF to malfunction.

No Error code was found that calls a faulty MAF however they performed different measurements with the OLD K&N and original MAF and got a "Readout"
Then they replaced the MAF and new VW OEM Filter and got a different "Readout"
Therefore they blame it on the K&N filter.
I told them to move fwd and replace both, my cost $288

It should be VW's responsibility to inform consumers NOT to replace the Air filter with a Mesh filter and that it is NOT covered under warranty!

Can anybody look up TSB - 2035641-3 I cant seem to find it.
Thanks

Last edited by Dieselkraut; June 14th, 2018 at 13:37.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 15:18   #17
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
It should be VW's responsibility to inform consumers NOT to replace the Air filter with a Mesh filter and that it is NOT covered under warranty!
It has never been any carmakers responsibility to warn you against using specific non-OE parts. That is the responsibility of the non-OE part manufacturer. Many owners manuals state "only use genuine manufactures parts" and that covers a lot of ground. If for say you replace the OE shocks with aftermarket and you break a suspension component it will not be covered under warranty.
Manufacturers set a spec for the part or fluid (oil etc). If you choose to use non 507 spec oil and your dpf has a shortened lifespan that is your problem, not VW's All being said the manufacturer has to prove that the non-OE part caused harm. Which in this case I think they did. Take your battle to K&N, not VW.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 14th, 2018 at 15:34.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 15:59   #18
Dieselkraut
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
It has never been any carmakers responsibility to warn you against using specific non-OE parts. That is the responsibility of the non-OE part manufacturer. Many owners manuals state "only use genuine manufactures parts" and that covers a lot of ground. If for say you replace the OE shocks with aftermarket and you break a suspension component it will not be covered under warranty.
Manufacturers set a spec for the part or fluid (oil etc). If you choose to use non 507 spec oil and your dpf has a shortened lifespan that is your problem, not VW's All being said the manufacturer has to prove that the non-OE part caused harm. Which in this case I think they did. Take your battle to K&N, not VW.

Did you know that VW with what you said is then in breach of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
FTC Validates Right to Install Aftermarket Parts
“Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the warranty cannot be conditioned to a specific brand of parts, services or vehicle modifications unless those parts or services are provided free of charge.”
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts

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Old June 14th, 2018, 16:10   #19
MichaelB
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Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
Did you know that VW with what you said is then in breach of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
FTC Validates Right to Install Aftermarket Parts
“Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the warranty cannot be conditioned to a specific brand of parts, services or vehicle modifications unless those parts or services are provided free of charge.”
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/01/ftc-validates-right-to-install-aftermarket-parts
No, it didn't Mag-Moss Warranty does not cover aftermarket parts that are not of the OE Manufacturer spec
If said aftermarket part is not to OE spec, for example, an aftermarket tune that is not to VW spec it is in no way covered by Magg-Moss..Lowering springs, aftermarket exhaust and on an on it goes have no Magg-Moss protection. Now if you had used an aftermarket paper filter made to OE spec you would have a case.
Many aftermarket part suppiers are also OEM suppiers. K&N is not. All Mag-Moss states is that you don't have to buy the part from the original manufacturer.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 14th, 2018 at 16:25.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 17:29   #20
Dieselkraut
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
No, it didn't Mag-Moss Warranty does not cover aftermarket parts that are not of the OE Manufacturer spec
If said aftermarket part is not to OE spec, for example, an aftermarket tune that is not to VW spec it is in no way covered by Magg-Moss..Lowering springs, aftermarket exhaust and on an on it goes have no Magg-Moss protection. Now if you had used an aftermarket paper filter made to OE spec you would have a case.
Many aftermarket part suppiers are also OEM suppiers. K&N is not. All Mag-Moss states is that you don't have to buy the part from the original manufacturer.

Please point me to where this is written?

Will using ‘aftermarket’ parts void my warranty?
No. An ‘aftermarket’ part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the
original equipment manufacturer. Simply using an aftermarket part does not void your warranty.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny
coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket part. Still, if it turns out that
the aftermarket part was itself defective or wasn’t installed correctly, and it causes damage to another
part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for
that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the
aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.

A TSB is NOT proof of fault, its a mere recommended steps and procedures for repairing vehicles.
PROOF would be the ACTUAL Fault code for the MAF! And they don't have that. (i.e. P0101 calls for malfunctioning MAF)


I thank you for your feedback and replies, don't take it personal please. I value everyones feedback and opinion. At the same token, I NEED to see PROOF before shelling out $$$



Last edited by Dieselkraut; June 14th, 2018 at 17:39.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 17:44   #21
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
Are you a Representative / Agent / Employee of VW or VW of America? Or a Representative / Agent / Employee of any other car manufacturer?
FYI: I'm a attorney at law.

Hell no!!!!!!!!..........I'm a retired manufacturing engineer from GKN Sinter Metals. My main product line was the production of Main Bearing Caps for GM, Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Mazda, and Nisson. I went on to play a major role in managing the preventative maintenance program for an aluminum foundry (Pace Ind). I bought all kinds of parts for diecast machines so I know a bit about Mag-Morr warranty. Now I'm just a retired person of reasonable intelligence that drives a VW Passat. Your an attorney at law so is my stepdaughter and she has no clue about the Mag-Mor. Go ahead sue VW for not having a preemptive warning to the consumer about K&N air filters and $288.00. I wish you well. I'm sure you will have to use K&N as a key witness....good luck with that. They already told you they would cough up the cost of your MAF sensor, that is the easy way out for them and satisfy the customer without court action. Too many smart ass attorneys in this world anyway. Have a great day.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 14th, 2018 at 21:40.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 17:48   #22
Dieselkraut
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Essentially per the TSB - 2035641-3
I have a copy of it (courtesey of K&N) it states "... Only use factory Airfilters. ...The use of after market Airfilters is not supported..... "



Therefore under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the FTC has ruled
those parts or services are provided free of charge


Essentially VW MUST provide FREE Airfilters while under this NEW Warranty!
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Old June 14th, 2018, 17:53   #23
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The dealer can say not covered all the way until you get to court and get a judgement against them. Good luck with that. You are never going to see proof from the dealer, VW or K&N. More than likely you won't even be able to find a lawyer to take the case. They will just laugh at you and tell you to pay the $288 and sop doing that.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 18:00   #24
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Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
The dealer can say not covered all the way until you get to court and get a judgement against them. Good luck with that. You are never going to see proof from the dealer, VW or K&N. More than likely you won't even be able to find a lawyer to take the case. They will just laugh at you and tell you to pay the $288 and sop doing that.

You missed a bit here he sez he is a lawyer so I guess his time is worth $288.00.

Edit if diesetkraut had done his homework in this community he would not be in this sinking boat in the first place.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 14th, 2018 at 19:31.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 18:04   #25
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
Essentially per the TSB - 2035641-3
I have a copy of it (courtesey of K&N) it states "... Only use factory Airfilters. ...The use of after market Airfilters is not supported..... "



Therefore under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act the FTC has ruled
those parts or services are provided free of charge


Essentially VW MUST provide FREE Airfilters while under this NEW Warranty!
Those 10 dollar air filters are certainly not gonna break VW's bank! Keep pursuing' it. They will be doing you a favor by not letting you allow all that crap that a K&N allows to enter your intake.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 18:11   #26
Dieselkraut
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Those 10 dollar air filters are certainly not gonna break VW's bank! Keep pursuing' it. They will be doing you a favor by not letting you allow all that crap that a K&N allows to enter your intake.

I like that if they admit to providing FREE Airfilters during the warranty period.

And yes the $288 is worth it as I am a attorney taking VW to court and its not just for the $288 there is a LOT MORE this is just another discovery AFTER ALL the modifications VW did.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 18:46   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
I like that if they admit to providing FREE Airfilters during the warranty period.

And yes the $288 is worth it as I am a attorney taking VW to court and its not just for the $288 there is a LOT MORE this is just another discovery AFTER ALL the modifications VW did.
Maybe you can get a little pain and suffering too.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 19:00   #28
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Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
I like that if they admit to providing FREE Airfilters during the warranty period.
Factory recommendation is every 60k you might get one
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Old June 14th, 2018, 19:06   #29
MichaelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
And yes the $288 is worth it as I am a attorney taking VW to court and its not just for the $288 there is a LOT MORE this is just another discovery AFTER ALL the modifications VW did.
I guess your time ain't worth nothin' I could spend that on a dinner and a stage show for two easy and never look back.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 14th, 2018 at 19:56.
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Old June 14th, 2018, 21:56   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselkraut View Post
NEW: Call from VW Quote: Need to replace EGR and DPF (under warranty)
Any input / advise? Thanks
Here is the biggie according to that statement VW will replace your EGR and DPF. So now you are quibbling about the K&N filter and MAF. Do you know what that is worth? Way more than your 288 buck MAF sensor. Have a nice life. Buy a different car.........say Honda and put a K&N air filter so you can save a couple of bucks.

Last edited by MichaelB; June 15th, 2018 at 01:27.
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