www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Fuel Economy

TDI Fuel Economy Discussions about increasing the fuel economy of your TDI engine. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 4th, 2014, 07:46   #1
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canuckland
Default The gasoline engine is NOT dead.

I had to trade my car. Basically mileage was getting so high that I would get poor trade value. I want the new Golf 7 but going to wait till its well sorted. I will order an early 2016 in summer 2015. So what to buy? Well stopped in to the Mazda store and bought a base 6 speed Mazda 3....Cost me nearly nothing (3K)to trade up 3 years and got a full warranty because I traded just before the car tails in value. Anyways the interesting part is the mileage. Same trip as I often do.....leave my house and drive to Montreal. Start FULL to the brim and fill up at same station I filled my Mark 6 at. I used to use with a fully broken in Golf 6.... 24-25 liters.... every time cruising 110km/hr (about 70 MPH).....just did the same trip with my Mazda 3 at same speed with 2000 kms on odometer (1200 miles)....not broken in in the dead of winter and I used 28.35 liters.....I was absolutely amazed. Same conditions, same tire pressures on both cars ...one broken in...one not..... I don't need to say that diesel is a solid 8-13% more costly at the same pump. Result?
I hate to say this but my enthusiasm for diesel "fuel economy" on the highway took a serious step back.....Cost for this 500km trip by this driver was a WASH.....Still cant believe it.....I love diesels for so many other reasons but the Gas engine isn't DEAD....
tdi90hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 07:52   #2
DieselRacer
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: AZ-NV
Fuel Economy: 30.6 combined
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdi90hp View Post
I had to trade my car. Basically mileage was getting so high that I would get poor trade value. I want the new Golf 7 but going to wait till its well sorted. I will order an early 2016 in summer 2015. So what to buy? Well stopped in to the Mazda store and bought a base 6 speed Mazda 3....Cost me nearly nothing (3K)to trade up 3 years and got a full warranty because I traded just before the car tails in value. Anyways the interesting part is the mileage. Same trip as I often do.....leave my house and drive to Montreal. Start FULL to the brim and fill up at same station I filled my Mark 6 at. I used to use with a fully broken in Golf 6.... 24-25 liters.... every time cruising 110km/hr (about 70 MPH).....just did the same trip with my Mazda 3 at same speed with 2000 kms on odometer (1200 miles)....not broken in in the dead of winter and I used 28.35 liters.....I was absolutely amazed. Same conditions, same tire pressures on both cars ...one broken in...one not..... I don't need to say that diesel is a solid 8-13% more costly at the same pump. Result?
I hate to say this but my enthusiasm for diesel "fuel economy" on the highway took a serious step back.....Cost for this 500km trip by this driver was a WASH.....Still cant believe it.....I love diesels for so many other reasons but the Gas engine isn't DEAD....

How does the new car go up hills with all that tq...
DieselRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 08:04   #3
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canuckland
Default

its a dog. So I downshift. I agree that I miss my Golf for certain reasons (for other reasons no though....this 3er is THE best handling FWD car I have ever driven)....but no torque....Quiet though.....real quiet in town.....Bit more road noise on highway then Golf....
tdi90hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 08:07   #4
aja8888
Veteran Member
 
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI(s): Out of TDI's
Fuel Economy: About as good as it gets!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwracer View Post
How does the new car go up hills with all that tq...
I have to admit, torque is nice and I love it when I need it, but it's not the whole story. Gasoline cars are getting much better and FE is respectable, especially with the D2 to RUG spread.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
........"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." -- philosopher Mike Tyson.
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 08:47   #5
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canuckland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
I have to admit, torque is nice and I love it when I need it, but it's not the whole story. Gasoline cars are getting much better and FE is respectable, especially with the D2 to RUG spread.
That was my point.....we are paying for driveability now and less for mileage ...although in town diesels still win but the differences are not huge anymore.....pretty small really....anxious to see how the new 1.8T turns out with good mileage comparisons....
tdi90hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 09:48   #6
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default

The new Mazda 3 has the full Skyactiv package, and is supposed to be really good. Nice car.
__________________
Brian P.
formerly ... 2006 Jetta TDI 5-sp, Spice Red, Unitronics stage 1, 0.681 5th gear.
and before that ... 1996 Passat TDI, Silk Blue
GoFaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 10:21   #7
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canuckland
Default

its actually pretty remarkable....still lean towards my VWs but its pretty slick. and at 18,500 including AC, BlueT, 4 Door, PW,PL, 6 Speed, 16 Inch wheels and 4 wheel disc and FULL indie suspension and 155HP it's a great compromise between a cheapie car like an Accent and a German Panzer wagon like a Golf TDI. New Golf in a 1.8T was interesting but fuel economy, NO indie suspension and 2K more money I figured this was the cheapest way to go while I patiently wait for the mark 7 to get sorted out and onto the market and 1 yr. under it's belt of sales.
tdi90hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 10:24   #8
whitedog
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bend, Oregon
Default

Does the Mazda need premium fuel?
__________________
Can rent movies at BlockBuster.
whitedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 10:42   #9
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canuckland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedog View Post
Does the Mazda need premium fuel?
nope...plain old boring regular 87 octane.....saw some for 3.07 /gallon in South Carolina last week! wow.
tdi90hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 11:55   #10
truman
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: columbia,MO,usa
Default

Mazda 3 hatch is a beautiful car also.
truman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 11:58   #11
tdi90hp
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canuckland
Default

mine is a hatch....it was a thousand bucks more than the sedan but it has the nice twin exhaust pipes and the hatch feel and look and to me is just more Euro looking if I can use a overused expression. Dealer insists it will command at least 80% of that thousand bucks back in resale or trade...we will see.....
tdi90hp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 12:29   #12
2.2TDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canada
TDI(s): .
Default

Congrats on the mazda, my only issue with them is the rust, I have no idea how the new ones are, but it's still too early to tell, my protege5 was falling apart... Any mazda up until 07/08 i've seen rusting like hell, especially the mazda3...hopefully they fixed it by now
2.2TDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 17:00   #13
Sinner
Veteran Member
 
Sinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Greenville, NC
Fuel Economy: 48.2/43.7/37.9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdi90hp View Post
That was my point.....we are paying for driveability now and less for mileage ...although in town diesels still win but the differences are not huge anymore.....pretty small really....anxious to see how the new 1.8T turns out with good mileage comparisons....
RUG 1.8T with auto transmission are showing 35mpg.
DD DSG are doing 40mpg.
With NC fuel prices, cost per mile is pretty much the same ($3,550 both, at 36K/year, according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
The 1.8T, with all the torque available at low revs, presents itself as a good economy contender for the TDI.
Now, what I don't know is: what are maintenance costs for both engines?
__________________
2014 Passat TDI DSG
2006 Passat 2.0T, VW-Blue, life mpg: 28.5. 96K
2002 Jetta TDI, 5sp, shiny black w/tan inside, 50K miles. I loved it. Now ex-wife loves it.
Sinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 18:00   #14
BlankThis
Veteran Member
 
BlankThis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal, QC
Fuel Economy: suck, squeeze, bang, smoke
Default

Lets see how she drives in 300k kms. Not that it matters to you if you plan on jumping to the Golf 7 in 2015.

I don't think these high compression gassers that are pushing 40MPG are going to have the same long term durability as the TDIs.
__________________
[360k] - | GT1749VB | DLC764s | Southbend Stage 3 daily (soon) | WIX 24770 + CAT 1R7050 | DG Sigma 5 | 25th anni. e-codes | W8 console | NewSouth boost gauge | Koni Yellows/SRT.Ts w/ Neuspeed Sport springs | 1.8T pancake (soon) | PD150 intake w/ racepipe (soon) |
BlankThis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2014, 18:34   #15
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default

Keep in mind that "high compression" doesn't correlate with "low durability" because the diesel engine has a lot more ...

Also, let's compare fancy finicky features that can go wrong.

Mazda Skyactiv:
- Gasoline direct injection system
- Variable valve timing (very rarely an issue)
- 3 way catalyst (same as every other gasoline engine)
- Oxygen sensor (same as every other gasoline engine)

Modern common-rail diesel engine
- Diesel direct injection system (~ 10 x higher pressure than gasoline direct injection)
- Turbocharger (Skyactiv doesn't have)
- High pressure EGR system (Skyactiv doesn't have)
- Intercooler (Skyactiv doesn't have)
- Low pressure EGR system and that infernal back-pressure flap (Skyactiv doesn't have)
- Oxidizing catalyst (corresponds to 3-way catalyst on gasoline engine - seldom an issue)
- Oxygen sensor (corresponds)
- Particulate filter (Skyactiv doesn't have - and this gizmo and its regeneration system are issues!)
- AdBlue system, if present (the days of diesel engines that do NOT have this are numbered - and it has been troublesome in cold weather)

Long term, for durability, if we are discussing modern emissions-compliant engines I think I'd say that the diesel engine is far more likely to have some expensive component/system fail later in the car's life that ends up being more expensive to repair than the car is worth.

Disclaimer, I've also given up on diesels for the time being; back to non-turbo, port-injected gas engine without thousands of $$ worth of emission control components ...
__________________
Brian P.
formerly ... 2006 Jetta TDI 5-sp, Spice Red, Unitronics stage 1, 0.681 5th gear.
and before that ... 1996 Passat TDI, Silk Blue
GoFaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Used a Quart of Gasoline Engine Oil moe VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs 8 March 12th, 2014 15:48
Diesel engine has been run on gasoline John G TDI 101 10 November 13th, 2011 18:47
New Gasoline Engine Technology jbright General Automotive 7 July 15th, 2010 21:10
synthetic oil for gasoline engine? bluesky Fuels & Lubricants 7 June 16th, 2005 22:34
synthetic oil for gasoline engine? bluesky TDI 101 0 June 15th, 2005 15:17


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.20407 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 128.82 Kb. compressed to 108.11 Kb. by saving 20.72 Kb. (16.08%)]