www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 12th, 2010, 13:06   #1
T'sTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
Default Discussion Thread: Comprehensive/Technical Approach to Burning WVO

I am in the process of posting up my guide that I have been working on for little over a months time. Its 28 pages in word so give me some time to post everything completely.

Since a lot of my time has gone into making this, I would like to keep all discussion comments/ridicule out of the thread to maintain its credibility and value to everyone else.

This guide was wrote for those that don't know anything regarding WVO. I hope this is a first stop for credible information.

I'll ask in both threads for the moderators to lock the thread and delete any comments out of the guide that are not mine once I am complete with the posting.

Enjoy... it was a lot of work.
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI- 190K
17/22, T4 764's, KermaTUNE, Euroject SMIC, Southbend Stg2 Endurance Clutch, LSD, .681 5th

WVO no More 187k
T'sTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2010, 13:26   #2
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default

You got it. Good job.

Link to main thread
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...76#post2832376
__________________
Brian P.
formerly ... 2006 Jetta TDI 5-sp, Spice Red, Unitronics stage 1, 0.681 5th gear.
and before that ... 1996 Passat TDI, Silk Blue
GoFaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2010, 16:24   #3
UFO
Veteran Member
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: A mile high
TDI(s): 2001 Beetle
Fuel Economy: 50mpg on B100
Default

That's more comprehensive than anything out there in the interwebs. Nice job.
__________________
2001 Beetle - EGR delete, 01M-ectomy, Atlas skidplate, vented, Frostheater.
I'm not coasting, I'm shifting slowly.

UFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2010, 22:13   #4
dalchri
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muncy, PA
TDI(s): 99 Beetle
Default

I'm interested in knowing the path that you took to arrive at these ideas...

What sort of adaptations had you performed on your other vehicles before you got the TDI? EGR delete? Injection line heaters? Restricted driving technique? Fuel temp mod? etc...

What sort of adaptations did you come up with only once you had to deal with a TDI? (I'm assuming that you got your TDI last after all your other vehicles)

How many of these adaptations were you anticipating and how many did you arrive at because you started to see a problem part way into your own conversion and use?

Now that you have adapted to the TDI platform, have you transferred any of these ideas to your other vehicles?

I guess I've been sort of under the impression that the IDIs, Mercedes, modern pickup trucks, all are pretty much plug and play with a two tank conversion kit and that it's only the TDI that needs this level of special care.

Thanks for sharing! It is refreshing to see a discussion of theory backed by evidence that results in constructive advice.
__________________
1999 ALH New Beetle 180k miles
dalchri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2010, 23:04   #5
brucebanes
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
TDI(s): Jetta 99.B
Fuel Economy: 48 MPG
Default

Propaganda thread is more like it.
brucebanes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2010, 23:37   #6
T'sTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalchri
I'm interested in knowing the path that you took to arrive at these ideas...

What sort of adaptations had you performed on your other vehicles before you got the TDI? EGR delete? Injection line heaters? Restricted driving technique? Fuel temp mod? etc...

What sort of adaptations did you come up with only once you had to deal with a TDI? (I'm assuming that you got your TDI last after all your other vehicles)

How many of these adaptations were you anticipating and how many did you arrive at because you started to see a problem part way into your own conversion and use?

Now that you have adapted to the TDI platform, have you transferred any of these ideas to your other vehicles?

I guess I've been sort of under the impression that the IDIs, Mercedes, modern pickup trucks, all are pretty much plug and play with a two tank conversion kit and that it's only the TDI that needs this level of special care.

Thanks for sharing! It is refreshing to see a discussion of theory backed by evidence that results in constructive advice.
I waited for my dad to convert his car first before I delved into converting my car. When I realized how well a diesel engine runs on WVO (his Powerstroke) I asked myself why the TDI engine itself has so little success.

Obviously, there are a lot of factors out there that contribute to failures in a TDI. I think one mainly being that the TDI engine is really the only small diesel engine out there supplied with a nicer vehicle. I mean who wants to drive around an 80's Mercedes? Granted they are nice cars and will last forever, but people put more into comfort and looks than whats under the hood. Many of these people went in blind to the idea. They had no reason not too... None of this information is mentioned unless the user him/herself looked for it.

I grew up around cars my entire life so I have a bit more knowledge then the average person. What I described in my guide makes logical sense. Its hard to pin point a failure to a certain degree because the variables involved; however, I think its completely plausible to make logically, educated inferences on why so and so occurred and how to prevent it from occurring. This comes from a lot of studying and reading across the internet (probably 60 hours worth total). I gathered other peoples opinions and made my own, which regarding WVO, I recommend to everyone. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say; however, if your passionate about what your trying to do, find other opinions related to the topic and form your own. For that matter, bring it to my attention because I would love to hear other peoples opinions regarding the topic. That's what I did... find one opinion, find twenty more, and then form your own...

The adaptions were explained extensively in order to show importance. The modifications themselves are relatively simple yet they prevent so much on the grander scale. Really the only thing different between our 00 Powerstroke (7.3 diesel) and my 01 TDI is the fact that fuel temperature is mapped with engine timing.

Long story short, when my father converted his car, he also had an EGT gauge installed and we both realized quickly that EGTs are relatively the same between both fuels. The first switchover on my TDI resulted in this not being the case. Since we are talking exhaust gas temperatures, this has to do with combustion, not the added heat from the fuel. The only culprit would be engine timing. Since the TDI engine (VE rotary) requires VAG COM to check timing and the graph itself has fuel temperature on the X axis of the graph, it was pretty easy to figure out what was going on.

Lucky for me, you stumble around great information if you look. The fuel cooler mod (so elegantly called in the Power enhancement section) was the key I needed to move further with the conversion (fuel resistor mod). If this did not work, I was going to discuss a WVO related tune with my chip tuner.... So I had other options.

Really the only special thing is the fuel resistor that I feel is mandatory... Remember my guide was written to promote the most long term success as possible. The guide was written to go "above the call of duty." Whether or not a person does what I did is up to them; however, it is food for thought...

I'm not your average WVO converter... I'm pretty anal and cover all factors to achieve success... At this point, there is no question in my mind what I have done thus far will yield great long term results... It makes perfect sense in theory and I put it to the test each day... Needless to say, I prove that theory each and everyday as well...
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI- 190K
17/22, T4 764's, KermaTUNE, Euroject SMIC, Southbend Stg2 Endurance Clutch, LSD, .681 5th

WVO no More 187k
T'sTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2010, 01:58   #7
nicklockard
Torque Dorque
 
nicklockard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Arizona
Fuel Economy: No data yet
Thumbs up

*Loud clapping*

Bravo!!! Knowledge is power. Great write up, Tony!









Bruce, if you don't have any meaningful critiques or viewpoints to offer and continue with the trolling...out comes that ban hammer again. STOP IT.
nicklockard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2010, 07:42   #8
vwcampin
Veteran Member
 
vwcampin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Omaha
Default

T's,
Nicely done, this should be a benefit to many who consider WVO. I think you did a great job. One note to add (and it is small) is that for the Vegtherm, a "thermostat" is available that will trun off the Vegtherm when it senses around 168F WVO temps. I agree about being cautious with electric heating, but this is an option which helps.

Again well done.
__________________
02 Jetta GLS TDI, Auto, 212k, W8 mod, Audi TT Pedals, Euro Switch, '04 Tails, rear fog, Homelink, GLX Lights w/ fogs, VW 17" Siata wheels, TDI Heater, PP357's, Venectomy, modified Greasecar kit
86 Vanagon Syncro Westy Weekender, 07 Passat Wagon 4Motion
vwcampin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2010, 13:52   #9
T'sTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwcampin
T's,
Nicely done, this should be a benefit to many who consider WVO. I think you did a great job. One note to add (and it is small) is that for the Vegtherm, a "thermostat" is available that will trun off the Vegtherm when it senses around 168F WVO temps. I agree about being cautious with electric heating, but this is an option which helps.

Again well done.
This is a good point. Its been so long since I've been on Plantdrives website, I totally forgot about the thermostat. If I was to put a vegtherm on my car, I would have to have it on a thermostat.
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI- 190K
17/22, T4 764's, KermaTUNE, Euroject SMIC, Southbend Stg2 Endurance Clutch, LSD, .681 5th

WVO no More 187k
T'sTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2010, 10:30   #10
vwcampin
Veteran Member
 
vwcampin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Omaha
Default

After digesting your write up for a day or so, I have a couple other things to mention.

Temp Gauge- I think it is worth mentioning that a temp gauge is a very good idea, in my opinion a must have since it lets you know what the WVO temps are, which is very important.

Links to pictures- While a pain in the butt, it would be nice to upload the pics in your links to TDI Clubs picture server and embed them in the posts. Nothing worse than looking through old posts for information and having the pics not work anymore

I'm just nitpicking the great job you did
__________________
02 Jetta GLS TDI, Auto, 212k, W8 mod, Audi TT Pedals, Euro Switch, '04 Tails, rear fog, Homelink, GLX Lights w/ fogs, VW 17" Siata wheels, TDI Heater, PP357's, Venectomy, modified Greasecar kit
86 Vanagon Syncro Westy Weekender, 07 Passat Wagon 4Motion
vwcampin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2010, 16:24   #11
T'sTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
TDI(s): 2001 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwcampin
After digesting your write up for a day or so, I have a couple other things to mention.

Temp Gauge- I think it is worth mentioning that a temp gauge is a very good idea, in my opinion a must have since it lets you know what the WVO temps are, which is very important.

Links to pictures- While a pain in the butt, it would be nice to upload the pics in your links to TDI Clubs picture server and embed them in the posts. Nothing worse than looking through old posts for information and having the pics not work anymore

I'm just nitpicking the great job you did
I would have loved doing so except BK took my editing and picture posting privileges away from me... I can't register to put any pictures on the server... You can thank him...

By the way... where are all the other people that usually post? Less than 10 comments over the course of 4 days... I guess its only easy to comment/discuss on a fail thread, not an educated approach
__________________
2001 Jetta TDI- 190K
17/22, T4 764's, KermaTUNE, Euroject SMIC, Southbend Stg2 Endurance Clutch, LSD, .681 5th

WVO no More 187k
T'sTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2010, 16:29   #12
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
Default

If you want something put into that thread or need something edited, I can make it happen.
__________________
Brian P.
formerly ... 2006 Jetta TDI 5-sp, Spice Red, Unitronics stage 1, 0.681 5th gear.
and before that ... 1996 Passat TDI, Silk Blue
GoFaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2010, 16:39   #13
philngrayce
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Connecticut
Fuel Economy: 53/43/49 ('02 Jetta 5 sp)
Default

Excellent work T; thanks for putting on the time.

My only comment would be that you are much more cautious than I have found necessary, especially on the highway only driving. Of course, in alternative fuels caution is a very good thing.
philngrayce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2014, 11:50   #14
eyyopomps
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Default

Is there stages of prefiltering before using a centrifuge if you take that route? And what are some thoughts on just going with a diesel to wvo mixed ratio straight into the car just the way it is? I live in FL doesnt get very cold here...
eyyopomps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2014, 12:51   #15
philngrayce
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Connecticut
Fuel Economy: 53/43/49 ('02 Jetta 5 sp)
Default

Centrifuges are great, but the more you prefilter the less you will have to clean out from the centrifuge. Letting the oil settle for a few days or even a week would be a good preliminary step.

Running WVO in a proper two tank heated system is pretty well proven to give good to extraordinary longevity in most cases. Mixing oil and diesel in the main tank is not nearly as proven; you are taking a much bigger risk. While it is warm in Florida, and your fuel will not congeal, it will be much thicker than the diesel the engine was designed for. Warming the oil to 160 degrees brings it to about what the diesel would be at room temperature.

In addition, with a two tank system, you can burn WVO most of the time. With a mix, you are always burning a percentage of diesel. It should be cheaper in the long run to put in the two tank system. This will depend somewhat on your driving patterns and mileage.
philngrayce is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18490 seconds with 10 queries
[Output: 129.27 Kb. compressed to 108.25 Kb. by saving 21.02 Kb. (16.26%)]