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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old October 23rd, 2019, 16:52   #166
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I remember when they did an update to 'The Beast' under Obama, I read that they were using the old GM 6.5L IDI turbo diesel...
Not a spectacularly powerful, efficient or clean engine, but being purely mechanical, it'll withstand an EMP blast and keep driving... So there's that.
That makes sense to me. The thing really doesn't need to be very fast, just dead reliable. A p-pump Cummins would be better imo, but it's GM based so....
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Old October 24th, 2019, 10:08   #167
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That makes sense to me. The thing really doesn't need to be very fast, just dead reliable. A p-pump Cummins would be better imo, but it's GM based so....
The military is also pretty well familiar with it since it powered a whole lotta military Humvees. Going with what they know.
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Old October 25th, 2019, 06:15   #168
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I remember when they did an update to 'The Beast' under Obama, I read that they were using the old GM 6.5L IDI turbo diesel...
It was never officially stated, but it sure sounded like a 6.5 to me. I imagine it had a DPF they just replaced often.
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Old October 29th, 2019, 22:19   #169
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I know a fair bit about "The Beast" and there is a lot that none of us will ever know b/c it is quite classified by the Secret Service.

Public knowledge:
It is a diesel, currently based on a Kodiak truck chassis.
It might LOOK like a Cadillac limo, but that is where the similarity ends.
The tires are bulletproof runflat tires with special interior armor that prevents failure and allows continued operation without air.
There is a substantial amount of armor on it - how much and where is VERY classified, but it is expected to survive multiple vectors of explosive force, impacts, and just about all forms of weapons fire.
The top speed, maximum acceleration capabilities and the overall weight are all classified, but each is suggested to be an "impressive" number. The weight is rumored to be north of 10 tons, yet the acceleration has been witnessed to be quite rapid.
There are electronic countermeasures also employed and quite classified, but *and this is my own personal speculation* concern of an EMP is not really one of them as military hardware is capable of being shielded from this, so I am sure it is used in the limo.

There are several of these cars that are identical, because they are flown to wherever the POTUS will be going and are part of the advanced team. One is always around POTUS wherever he happens to be. The Air Force maintains the cargo planes used for the advance teams to pre-position the cars wherever POTUS may be going, and the car is one of the only things on that particular flight... Which also suggests how heavy it is.

As a general rule, military vehicles are fully exempt from emissions control rules - that the POTUS executive limo is operated by the Secret Service is likely only a formality, I would fully expect that while it is a very well-mannered and quiet vehicle when not "on alert"... It has little in the way of exhaust restrictions to prevent maximum power from being applied at a moment's notice.
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Old October 30th, 2019, 15:26   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordi View Post
I know a fair bit about "The Beast" and there is a lot that none of us will ever know b/c it is quite classified by the Secret Service.

Public knowledge:
It is a diesel, currently based on a Kodiak truck chassis.
It might LOOK like a Cadillac limo, but that is where the similarity ends.
The tires are bulletproof runflat tires with special interior armor that prevents failure and allows continued operation without air.
There is a substantial amount of armor on it - how much and where is VERY classified, but it is expected to survive multiple vectors of explosive force, impacts, and just about all forms of weapons fire.
The top speed, maximum acceleration capabilities and the overall weight are all classified, but each is suggested to be an "impressive" number. The weight is rumored to be north of 10 tons, yet the acceleration has been witnessed to be quite rapid.
There are electronic countermeasures also employed and quite classified, but *and this is my own personal speculation* concern of an EMP is not really one of them as military hardware is capable of being shielded from this, so I am sure it is used in the limo.

There are several of these cars that are identical, because they are flown to wherever the POTUS will be going and are part of the advanced team. One is always around POTUS wherever he happens to be. The Air Force maintains the cargo planes used for the advance teams to pre-position the cars wherever POTUS may be going, and the car is one of the only things on that particular flight... Which also suggests how heavy it is.

As a general rule, military vehicles are fully exempt from emissions control rules - that the POTUS executive limo is operated by the Secret Service is likely only a formality, I would fully expect that while it is a very well-mannered and quiet vehicle when not "on alert"... It has little in the way of exhaust restrictions to prevent maximum power from being applied at a moment's notice.
So it *could* just be a Duramax of some kind then, it sounds like.

Extra power from intercooling, direct injection, higher boost levels, better control over injection events thanks to commonrail etc. adding up to a lot more power than the poor old 6.5 could ever hope to muster.
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Old October 30th, 2019, 18:03   #171
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I don't doubt the 10 ton number, and a old 6.5 would not move that quickly...
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Old October 30th, 2019, 18:52   #172
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I doubt it's very quick at all. The '09-'18 version topped out at 60 mph according to Wikipedia. I'm guessing the quarter mile in 22 seconds or so.
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Old October 31st, 2019, 04:38   #173
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AM General took over the rights to the 6.5L from GM, and since they knew the engine likely as good as or ever better than GM did, they immediately set to work and redesigned the engine and fixed all of its shortcomings. The new version is known as the 6500 Optimizer and it is actually a pretty tough engine, although not as powerful as some of the competitors' engines. But at least they no longer break.
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Old October 31st, 2019, 05:39   #174
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Where is that engine used, Brian?
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Old October 31st, 2019, 06:21   #175
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Where is that engine used, Brian?
AM General still builds the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (otherwise known as the "Humvee") for the military, both ours as well as our allies still use them.

Also, the Optimizer is available in the aftermarket. It is a popular upgrade for folks who love their older GM diesel C/K trucks as well as some P-vans (later known as Workhorse, until GM sold that division and was eventually taken over by Navistar).

Because most all the old 6.5L cores are no good for rebuilding, and the Optimizer is an easy drop in replacement for all of the older engines, and can be configured for both turbo and non-turbo arrangements. I have a customer with a '91 2500 Suburban that has one. It is not a 7.3L PS Excursion, but it gets the job done and has covered over 200k miles since install and the engine has needed nothing but oil and filter changes and a drive belt. That's it. They increased the oil capacity from 7 quarts to 10.5, it has a water pump that flows 50% more, and a much more robust block and cylinder head casting. He tows his race car and trailer all over the place with it. The 4L80E transmission has been rebuilt/replaced several times. The last time it got some fancy controller that is supposed to make it last longer, I think that has helped it a lot. There is a kit to convert these over to an Allison transmission but it involves a body lift for clearance on the GMT800 chassis.
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Old October 31st, 2019, 08:19   #176
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Brian,
I am continually amazed at the wealth of information that we all get from you. For someone that is more of a turn the key and drive car person, it's great to get a glimpse into the minutia of the automotive workings.
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Old October 31st, 2019, 20:48   #177
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I didn't mention it before b/c I wasn't certain of the information, but I have since found it on a couple different car enthusiast places (one linked above).

Yes, it IS a Duramax 6.6 liter, but not your garden variety version. The top speed is rumored to be 60mph b/c of the insane amount of armoring - 5-inch-thick glass isn't exactly lightweight either...

BUT the zero-to-60 time is 15 seconds. That's impressive enough, before you hear that it has turbocharging AND an Eaton Twin Vortices Series 1900 supercharger system. They can stuff a LOT of air into that sucker. It is also supposed to be B-20 compliant (although pretty much EVERY diesel engine can say that). With all the work it has to do however, it gets an eye-watering 8mpg. OOF.
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Old October 31st, 2019, 22:10   #178
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There's really little reason for it to be fast. The entourage of secret service in escalades and suburbans, snipers along the route, and whatever other security measures can handle pretty much any issue that might pop up. In fact, speed might be a liability. Princess Dianna would probably still be alive if her limo had been limited to 60 mph.
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Old November 1st, 2019, 00:25   #179
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Doubtful on that one - her limo hit a piling inside of a tunnel. Bashing into a reinforced concrete object while inside of a vehicle... Pretty much anything short of a TANK and you are going to have a bad day even at 30-40mph. She was also unrestrained.

I don't think it is so much the top speed as the acceleration, the capabilities of the limo are for the unexpected problems that the suburbans and etc can't directly deal with - OR the idea is to floor it and clear the area, and let the guns do the protecting while the National Command Authority is removed to a safe place as fast as possible.

Likely the engine wouldn't enjoy having eleventy-twelve pounds of boost stuffed into it, but if the engine only held together for 40 miles after an emergency-acceleration... That would probably be seen as acceptable if the POTUS is protected. That's all they care about, remember. Protect now, fix later. I'm kinda surprised they don't have a nitrous "panic button" system for even more emergency acceleration... But maybe it does and it's just classified.
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Old November 1st, 2019, 13:44   #180
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Likely the engine wouldn't enjoy having eleventy-twelve pounds of boost stuffed into it, but if the engine only held together for 40 miles after an emergency-acceleration... That would probably be seen as acceptable if the POTUS is protected. That's all they care about, remember. Protect now, fix later. I'm kinda surprised they don't have a nitrous "panic button" system for even more emergency acceleration... But maybe it does and it's just classified.
A "scramble" button would make sense. It probably has one. Even better would be a small hybrid electric drivetrain that could add emergency power or take over altogether if the diesel quit.
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