CP3 Pump Install Experiments.**Big Picts**

storx said:

.... I have recently broke 300whp without fuel issues..yet

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No. you haven't. When you have a dyno sheet from a reputable shop somewhere near sea level that shows this, then you can claim that. I guarantee you're under 250.

Sorry to muck up a great thread, there is no sense in having false information left in here without question.

Continue on I have my CP3 on order

I am currently trying different aux pumps. The Touareg pump is physically smaller, slightly higher pressure, but apparently less volume. This weekend I'll be trying the Bosch 044 as an aux pump. It's not perfect since its rated for only 500 hours use with diesel.

Anybody need a Touareg pump with 1 hour use?

Micron2, have you compared the signal voltage to the CP4 Vs. CP3, that would by my only concern.

I am sure that the rail does not care what it gets and from where as long as it gets what it needs.

However the bounce back signal from the ECM needs to correspond with the FCA range of voltage. That has been my concern and not a single fuel house I deal with can get me that type of information.

bhutchins said:

I am currently trying different aux pumps. The Touareg pump is physically smaller, slightly higher pressure, but apparently less volume. This weekend I'll be trying the Bosch 044 as an aux pump. It's not perfect since its rated for only 500 hours use with diesel.

Anybody need a Touareg pump with 1 hour use?

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Keep in mind that the CP4 wants and expects high pressure to feed it, the CP3 with on board gear pump would be more than happy with a constant 10-14PSI constant inlet feed pressure.

Modded pumps may want more based on the design of the build.....

Pressure = Speed
Volume = Flow

always a mystery and variable when the application and needs are not known

JacktheBear3 said:

Micron2, have you compared the signal voltage to the CP4 Vs. CP3, that would by my only concern.

I am sure that the rail does not care what it gets and from where as long as it gets what it needs.

However the bounce back signal from the ECM needs to correspond with the FCA range of voltage. That has been my concern and not a single fuel house I deal with can get me that type of information.

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Hello Jack,
Absolutely!! The voltage and frequency was checked very early in the experiment.
Jump back to post #61
N2UADTDI asked the same question.
In sort, the FMV Fuel metering valve operates on 12vdc, PWM frequency (Pulse Width Modulated) between 5% and 40% duty cycle.
Both metering valves are the same resistance as well.
Here is a picture (Electronic Tech Geeks only!!!) of what it takes to drive all 3 PWM frequency signals (Rail, Metering Valve and Injectors)

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And the exciting video driving our Stock CP4.1 Pump remotely:
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/c244d755.mp4
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Hope this answers the question you are seeking??
Thanks,
Andrew
http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/2micron/media/c244d755.mp4.html?sort=3&o=386

2micron said:

Hello Jack,
Absolutely!! The voltage and frequency was checked very early in the experiment.
Jump back to post #61
N2UADTDI asked the same question.
In sort, the FMV Fuel metering valve operates on 12vdc, PWM frequency (Pulse Width Modulated) between 5% and 40% duty cycle.
Both metering valves are the same resistance as well.
Here is a picture (Electronic Tech Geeks only!!!) of what it takes to drive all 3 PWM frequency signals (Rail, Metering Valve and Injectors)

.
And the exciting video driving our Stock CP4.1 Pump remotely:
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/c244d755.mp4
.
Hope this answers the question you are seeking??
Thanks,
Andrew

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Geek Porn for SURE !!

so the requested need for Fuel @ X = Voltage Y
The FCA on CP3 will Gain Z for ICP

Maybe it never matters, go back to my initial question and the Rail sensor will continue to drive the equation.... Correct

the teeter totter just goes back and forth keeping the rail happy

Very nice Andrew!! I did not realize that pump was out there....
Great work

2micron said:

Hello All,
This has been a very fun project so far, very rewarding and full of twists along the way.
First off, several people have contributed so far:
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TDISyncro first dreamed and promoted the idea to install a CP3 Pump on a VW 2.0 Common Rail.
He also supplied valuable parts and helped with Critical Measurements.
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Karter59 and Tyrel supplied the block and Crankshaft.
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Redneckdiesel supplied the Alternator and A/C pump.
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My buddy Daryl was a huge help in the Electronics of the test bench to drive and map the Fuel delivery.
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I am no expert at anything, but do enjoy experimenting and also always have fun learning from others knowledge and my mistakes!!
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Here's a quick intro to the project this far. I am still working on the belt drive and tensioner system, but getting closer.
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Mock up Motor - early stages.
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Vibration testing on the Rail to Measure The Pump "Pulses"
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Here's a video showing the car running with the CP3 pump, driven by a 1950's Gravely Lawnmower!!
http://s1059.photobucket.com/albums/t428/2micron/?action=view&current=DSCI0496.mp4
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Still a ways to go, but still having fun and enjoying the project!
I will share and update as it progresses.
All the best!,

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I'm impressed at you guys doing VW's work for them without getting the credit and cash.

Something must be said when end users try to fix the problems created by car makers.

looks great, my only concern is that the new belt being outside the old serp belt to run the cp3 pump is going to be too wide to actually fit inside the engine compartment and will rub on the frame rail. are you using two narrower belts? have you tried to fit this in an engine bay or checked measurements?

2micron Just a thought....Besides my JSW I also own a BMW 335d. The HPFP on these cars has not any issues as far as I can tell. The Bosch part # is 0445010126. I dont know how the physical size of this pump compares to the CP3, but it might be worth looking into. If it is smaller than the CP3 it might be a lot easier to adapt to the VW 2.0.

totitan said:

2micron Just a thought....Besides my JSW I also own a BMW 335d. The HPFP on these cars has not any issues as far as I can tell. The Bosch part # is 0445010126. I dont know how the physical size of this pump compares to the CP3, but it might be worth looking into. If it is smaller than the CP3 it might be a lot easier to adapt to the VW 2.0.

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IIRC, the bimmer I6 diesel is running either the CP3 or CP4.2.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

cp3mini

Any luck with the mini CP3 as of late? I know this would be the best solution to date if we could get a CP3/adapter kit going.

Subscribed!
Looks like we may have a solution to any issue we have in the future with our cars

Looking forward to updates

let's revive this thread! it'd be great to have a solution to all of the quirks to these cars haha

Posting because somehow this thread got lost and people need to see it

This thread needs more views and an update!!

bassman5066 said:

IIRC, the bimmer I6 diesel is running either the CP3 or CP4.2.

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I wouldn't be interested in a cp4...I'm not sure they're any more durable than what we have.

Any developments to report?

redbarron55 said:

Any developments to report?

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Yes!
I have dusted off all the neglected bits and dug back into this!!!
The best part is that I have decided to run the "mini CP3" at 1:1 crank speed.
This bothered me for months, but after much research, experimenting and thought, sure, 1:1 has many more benefits than issues.
This way, we can run the factory timing belt.
Research shows Chevy trucks run the larger version CP3 up to 4800 RPM during downshift braking. The hot-rod diesel crowd has also exceeded 5000rpm on the larger pumps as well.
The pumps do fade around 4k rpm, but that is easily modified!!!
The capacity of this "mini" pump is far from mini.
Static displacement is more than 2 times greater than our stock CP4.1 pumps.
Stock CP4.1 = .327cc/revolution
Stock CP4.2 = .755cc/revolution
Stock "Mini CP3" = .757cc/revolution
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The intent of the latest experiment is to make the mini CP3 completely bolt on.
The factory VW accessory bracket is not modified, the timing belt train is factory and an adapter will connect the high pressure line.
Here are some fresh pictures!!!
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Adapter plate and new hub for sprocket.
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Bolted to the factory accessory bracket.
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Fun to get back into this!!!
All the best and thanks for reviving this thread!!!
Andrew

2micron said:

Yes!

Stock "Mini CP3" = .757cc/revolution

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Maybe I should keep my Liberty CP3 Are you sure the capacity is that high?!

Another thing to note - I'm spinning my CP4.1 up to 5600rpm right now, I'm hoping we can exceed 5k without troubles on the CP3, on a regular basis I hit 5k.

If you can shoot me a quick how to take the liberty pump apart and dims you want, I can probably do it in a few weeks.

This is awesome news I would much rather have a cp3 vs anything cp4.x

Next we will be adding dual cp3 pumps like I have on my 06 Cummins.

I'd be in for a cp3 kit.

If I could find a place on the car to install it I'd do an airdog or fass system and do away with the factory lift pump and fuel filter too...

Howling said:

Next we will be adding dual cp3 pumps like I have on my 06 Cummins.

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Hello Howling, Please share what ratio your 2nd belt driven CP3 vs the crank run at.
What is the max crank RPM you guys run in the cummins truck world?
Thanks!!
Andrew

Cool, I'll have to dust off the mini CP3.3 that I have off a BMW x35d.

Great work!

Thank for keeping this up. I was wondering how the project was coming.

It Runs!!

Hello All!! Here's a pictorial update!!!!
TdiSyncro sent a chunk of a block, head and many more parts to help with mock up:
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My timing belt was just due, so with the help of Greengeekers awesome DIY timing belt guide,
I put the pump on!!
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The HPFP sprocket is slightly different than the original pump!
It all sits nicely under the cover...
I have a video of the first start, but can't load it now. I drove it for the first time this morning and will pile more miles on it. Another member in England is testing the setup on a higher horsepower application, should have results soon!!All the best,
Andrew