Dealership say 505.01 replaced by 502.00?

Chiroman

Active member
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Jun 20, 2018
Location
Alberta, Canada
TDI
'15 GSW, '05 Jetta PD
Just want to make sure I have not lost my mind :)
I picked up a second hand 2005 Jetta BEW PD, and went to my local stealership looking for 505.01 Oil. The woman at the parts department came back with "Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W40", with VW 502.00 and 505.00 approval codes. I said that 505.00 is for the older non-PD TDI's, and that I was looking for the 505.01 for the BEW PD. She replied with "505.01 is not made anymore and that the 502.00 replaces the 505.01 and that's what's used by their service dept. Part# G-E52-502-1Q-DS replaces part# ZVW=352-167-Q-D"

My understanding is that 502.00 is a gas spec, not diesel, and that 505.00 is for the older non-PD's (2003 and older). It is also my understanding that 505.01 is backward compatible to 505.00 but not vice-vera, ie. 505.01 can be used in place of 505.00 but 505.00 can not be used in place of 505.01. Have I missed something, or is this dealership (parts & service) completely clueless? 505.01 spec oil is still available, that is certain.
 

scooperhsd

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Wrong stuff - take it back and tell him to get you the right stuff with VW505.01. This is REAL IMPORTANT for your car for cam protection. And she is absolutely wrong that 505 can replace.



It doesn't have to come from VW either. So there is 505.01 out there.
 
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andreigbs

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Walworth Co., Wisconsin
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My understanding is that 502.00 is a gas spec, not diesel, and that 505.00 is for the older non-PD's (2003 and older). It is also my understanding that 505.01 is backward compatible to 505.00 but not vice-vera, ie. 505.01 can be used in place of 505.00 but 505.00 can not be used in place of 505.01. Have I missed something, or is this dealership (parts & service) completely clueless? 505.01 spec oil is still available, that is certain.
You are correct. They are mostly clueless.

FYI, the newest VW/Audi oil specs for gassers are 504 (supersedes 502) and 507 (supersedes 505.01), however it will most likely come in 5w30.

At VW/Audi dealerships, it will be labeled "Castrol Professional LL03 5W30."

This oil is intended for all gasser AND diesel VWs, but importantly is designed for the DPF-equipped diesels, not your PD.

So, while in a way technically correct that 505.01 has been replaced, that's because it has become obsolete with the new common rail engines requiring their own spec.

Many people (myself included) have tried these new-fangled 507 spec oils in older motors like the PD and have concluded they are more geared towards emissions system protection and fuel economy than engine parts protection.

That said, others prefer using one type of oil for their gas and diesel fleet.

Bottom line: for your PD, you won't find 505.01 oil at the dealer. Either get it online from Idparts, Blauparts, or any other retailer you find, or since you have no warranty to worry about and 505.01 oil isn't the holy grail of oils anyway, just go to your local Auto Zone or O'Reilly and pick up a gallon of the Mobil1 Delvac 5w40 or the Mobil1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40. Some will even say go with the Rotella T6 stuff.

Any of those are excellent oils for your PD, 505.01 be damned.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
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andreigbs

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We may be splitting hairs on the definition of what "supersedes" means then. The better terminology may be "backward compatible."

I did not mean that a given oil spec (say 505.01) is retracted or withdrawn when a new one (507) comes out.

Many manufacturers still make different specs of oil, obviously.

I offer https://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php as discussion for how I was using "supersedes."

And to split a different hair, the proper OE oil for a PD just needs to be 505.01 approved, not necessarily made by Castrol (even though USA VW dealers mainly carry the Castrol).

You can get any brand 505.01 (or any other spec you want/need) oil you like best.

Brian, far be it from me to quarrel with you and no such intention here. :)
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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^ He was just saying that the Castrol is the 505.01 oil that the dealerships stock. Under the part number he mentioned. Obviously any 505.01 rated 5w-40 is acceptable.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
And there is no "backwards compatibility" either. 507.00 is not to be used in cars requiring 505.01.

Most of the oils that are 505.01 are also 505.00 (VE diesel) and 502.00 (most gassers before the newest 508s which are a 0w20 (I am STILL laughing about that).

No quarrel just want people to get the correct oil in their cars. It is well known that Xw30 oils are not friendly to the PD camshafts, and ALL the 507.00 oils are such (that I have ever seen anyway). So by default, a 507.00 oil is not suitable for a PD.
 

andreigbs

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And there is no "backwards compatibility" either. 507.00 is not to be used in cars requiring 505.01... snip... So by default, a 507.00 oil is not suitable for a PD.
That's pretty clear to me now, but I remember the discussions several years ago when the new 507 spec oils came out and many were trying them in their PDs (myself included) thinking that it's a "better" oil than the 505.01 stuff we had been using.

I'm curious how many continued to use 507 oil in the PDs. I know I tried it for a couple oil change intervals, then I went straight to M1 TDT, along with the DG bypass filter kit. Off topic, I know.

Still.. great info, thanks Brian.
 

tikal

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Apparently field experience has been/is different in Europe as there has been a number of PD TDIs with DPF models using 507 spec oils for some time (many years) without the infamous camshaft early wear out issue we have been experiencing in North America. We probably in TDIClub would attribute this to 'luck' or coincidence. My personal investigation is that there is more science to it than just plain 'luck' (see post # 25 in thread titled "Wrong oil used in my Jetta TDI").

Also there are a number of people with PD TDIs who were willing to publish their UOA results using 507 oils, myself included. You can search for them if you would like.

I do agree that from a cost-benefit analysis a 507 oil does not make as much sense as a 505.01 5W40 oil or an 5W40 HDEO oil for that matter.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Remember though Europe also got 16v PDs with the Siemens injectors. Totally different engine (head). We only got the 8v with Bosch injectors.
 

tikal

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Yes, indeed there are different 'flavours' of Pump Düse TDIs. But I think the big picture still stands that they all have an ' aggressive' camshaft design that requires certain oils. I think posts 12 and 16 give a fairly good explanation on the subject:

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/best-oil-for-2-0-tdi-cr-engine.276227/

I personally went through some of the European VW/Audi forums and I never got the sense that drives CV with PD TDIs are concerned with using a 507 spec oil.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
But the 16v PDs have roller rockers to work the valves (similar to the roller follower arms on the CR engines, except the PDs actually have a rocker shaft), they are not direct cam-to-tappet driven valves. The 16v PDs could easily survive I would think on 5w30 oils.
 

Chiroman

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Alberta, Canada
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'15 GSW, '05 Jetta PD
Thanks for all the great info everyone. I agree with andreigbs in that 505.01 has been replaced by VW as it has become obsolete and replaced by 507.00. However, as andreigbs also mentioned, the 507.00 is more geared toward DPF vehicles and emissions systems protection rather an engine wear. (Great info also by tikal and oilhammer regarding the European spec PD's.)

I went to a different VW dealership, and was able to get the 505.01 spec Castrol (502.00, 505.00, 505.01). When I mentioned that a different dealer tried to sell me 502/505.00 spec, the parts guy said "Yeah, its all the same, so the 502/505.00 would be fine for my PD". He went on to say that all the new VW's are using 508.00 0W20, and soon they will be using the 508.00 in everything, making it sound like they were only going to stock the 508.00 in the future. Given that even a 505.01 5W30 is marginal on a PD and 5W40 is better, it seems scary that VW thinks the new 508 0W20 will be "just fine for PD's". I wouldn't even use the 508 0W20 in place of the 507.00 5W30 for the common rail TDI.

VW in North America does not care about TDI's of any type anymore, except maybe the common rails that are still under warranty. They certainly have no interest in stocking 505.01 for the 2004-2006 PD's, so they give some BS story about how the 502/505.00 is just fine. I have always done my own oil changes, and would suggest that everyone else do the same, as the dealerships will probably use the wrong oil. Use the right oil (probably not available through the dealership), and it does not even have to be 505.01. There are other good options available as others have already suggested.
 
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turbobrick240

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I'd give that dealership a wide berth if they use 507 in the PD tdi's. Even wider if they plan to use 0w-20 for tdi's in the future.
 

SilverGhost

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Parts department counter people are usually the last person I would ask about what oil to use. Even ours are clueless.

The new 508 is matching Ford and Honda 0w20 requirements. So far only the Budik(sp) 2.0TSI is using it.

Had a QTM tell me about a talk he had with colleges and engineers after copious amounts of alcohol were consumed. VW policy is newer spec oil replaces previous spec oils for given type (gas, diesel, extended drain, etc.), but the engineer admitted that this is not always correct for a given engine (IE: NAR PD engines and their cams).

Jason
 

tikal

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But the 16v PDs have roller rockers to work the valves (similar to the roller follower arms on the CR engines, except the PDs actually have a rocker shaft), they are not direct cam-to-tappet driven valves. The 16v PDs could easily survive I would think on 5w30 oils.
Good information to know. Thank you OH.

Our of curiosity I went to the Shell UK site to inquire about 'Which oil do I need' (link). I see that for just for the Golf 1.9 TDI PD (Pump Duse) there are at least six different engines. I would think that some of these PD models along with others such as the Passat with the BGW PD engine have a similar cam to the BEW/BHW engines in North America. I would say it would be unlikely that out of all the PD engines VW built (probably dozens of models) only North America got the 'aggressive' cams such as BEW and BHW. But of course I could be wrong too.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Couple things to consider when comparing North American and European cars. First, they don't drive nearly as much as we do. They simply do not have the cities spread out like much of the US and Canada, and they have access to a far superior city-to-city passenger train system. The US has 910 cars per 1000 people, Europe has only 468 (Canada is in the middle at 662). We are a VERY car-centric country, both culturally and by necessity.

Cars are cheap here, relatively speaking. We tend to all too often view them as a throwaway commodity. Inspections are lax or non-existent, which gives opportunity to simply neglect them until they break. We issue driver's licenses far too easily, and they are even easier to keep.

All this tends to make Americans neglectful of cars, and makes Europeans more likely to take good care of them. Generalization, of course, and I am sure there are plenty of exceptions, but the folks I know that are from or have lived in places like the UK, Germany, Denmark, Austria, Poland, etc. have a very different view on personal transportation than some here do. Things like driving a manual gearbox, checking your oil and tires, changing wiper blades, etc. seem to be second nature to someone from Germany. But updating your Facebook page or taking selfies gets priority here for a lot of younger people. Our shop has been seeing this play out worse and worse every year. Shocking and sad at the same time. Which is why the EVs will have a leg up for these future people. They can master keeping their iPhones plugged in, so they can probably figure out how to plug a car in, because they certainly cannot be bothered to make sure the crankcase is full of the proper oil. :rolleyes:

Which is sort of ironic given the strong car culture our country has.
 
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