Balance shaft delete. How to and part numbers

Whitbread

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Here's the list of PN's needed for the swap. Will be updated with pics as project progresses.

Crankshaft oil pump sprocket - 06A105209B
ALH oil pump - 06A115105B
BRM sprocket - 038115121A
BRM chain tensioner - 038115130
BRM chain - 038115230A
ALH oil pump bolt, 3 needed - N90704007
1.8T Oil pump pickup tube - 06B115251
ALH Windage Tray - 06B103623P

DO NOT FORGET TO PLUG THE BS MODULE OIL FEED HOLE!!!!
 
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nowback

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tdi's ranging 2000 golf to 2006 jetta 7 in total:)
would be nice to know average prices of the parts above.
I might have to do the same job on my 2005 project passat.
not sure if i would pay the price of a new gear bsm in or do a delete.
I think the only way i would do it with a new bsm would be if i can pull some
strings and get a deal from vw for the parts.
matt
 

abctdi

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So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?
 

DeliveryValve

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Passat GLS Wagon
So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?
No heavy balance shaft module to reduce engine vibration in oil pump drive system.
I would do it if you are going with a manual transmission. The use of a heavier flywheel would essentially do the same job as a balance shaft.



.
 

nowback

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tdi's ranging 2000 golf to 2006 jetta 7 in total:)
I assume thats directed at me,,,lol
I am trying to shame someone i know who owns a vw dealership into
a deal on parts.lol
but the price difference is so great i can see a alh oil pump going in
if i have to.

How's that?
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
I think if you are bolting it to a manual, it should be fine. Supposedly the "maybe built, maybe not" BGW engine was made this way, and it was the exact same as the BHW otherwise but got bolted to a proper gearbox instead.

Not sure about with the slushbox, though. Someone else did one here where he machined off the balance shafts' lobes and reported it vibrated quite a bit worse that he expected.

Here's the kicker, though: my own BHW at idle never lets you forget it is a diesel. It is not bad, mind you, but it does have some vibes through the car much more than the 1.8t engine in the same car. Also, my 1.9L TDI idles so smooth you'd think it stalled when coming to a stop unless you look at the tach.

So, is the idle NVH in the BHW worse because of the balance shafts, but better than it would be without at say 2500 RPM? Would negating them make it smooth(er) at idle but have an annoying buzz at 2500 RPM? I too am really curious, as I am using a BHW bottom end in a punched out ALH block for a project car... without balance shafts. But it will be bolted to a manual, although it will not use a DMF.

Interesting though.
 

JFettig

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oilhammer: don't forget Louis was using V6 motor mounts at the time. It would be enough to rattle your teeth for sure.

I am very curious to see how it will do. My 1.9L B5 definitely vibrates a little more than an ALH in a MKIV

Jon
 

dogdots

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The CBEA has the balance shaft module, and plenty of those are bolted to manual trans cars. I wonder why the BHW longitudinally mounted, only bolted to a ZF auto from the factory, and the CBEA transverse mounted, bolted to manuals and dsg's need balance shaft modules while they were not needed on BRM, BEW, ALH, etc. Does that extra 25cc per cylinder really make that much more vibration?

I'll be interested to see if the ALH/BHW combo in Brian's project above vibrates badly or behaves like an ALH.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Not sure it is the extra displacement, but the extra weight of the pistons. Also, the PD pistons are heavier than the VE, plus they also use fatter wrist pins. Not sure about the weight of the rods, though.
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
The BHW balancers are counter-rotating (only effective in the up-down axis when both are going up or down, not when one goes left and the other goes right) and driven at twice crank speed.
This indicates that they are intended to counter the power pulses (4 per two crank revolutions), not to counter the reciprocating masses of pistons and top half of the con-rods.

Single shaft, dual mass, counter rotating balancers (like in my V4 Saab / Ford) driven at crank speed are intended to counter the 'rocking-horse' effect created by the four reciprocating masses of the pistons and top of the connecting rods. As the 3-4 punch pushes the pistons down (and pushes up on the head) the mass at that end of the balance shaft fights against the block being pulled up by the head bolts. The mass at the other end of the shaft fights to keep that other end of the engine steady during the 2-1 punch.

Oh, for an inherently smooth three cylinder Otto cycle engine......
 

vwztips

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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
So LNut, are you saying this is not a wise move to delete the BSM when going to a manual tranny?
 

Lug_Nut

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idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
If you will use the clutch to hold the car on a hill you'll be duplicating the added power that the auto uses in drive at standstill and you'll want for the balancers.
If you are normal and use neutral (or the clutch dis-engaged) and brakes when standing still you might not care, but do the full conversion to obtain a duplicate of the shaft-free, 2.0 PD B5 manuals that were available elsewhere in the world. Cutting the lumps off the shafts alone isn't enough.
 

sirpuddingfoot

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FWIW, I plan to do this in ours this summer. Yes, it's still chained :mad::eek: Yes, my wife finally agreed that a 5spd would be ok when the ZF dies.
 

vwztips

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With an automatic or are you converting to a manual at the same time?
 

Whitbread

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With an automatic or are you converting to a manual at the same time?
Keeping the auto tragic sadly. The car is most likely going to my parents and it's better for public safety if neither of them drives a manual...

For anyone wanting to do this, DO NOT FORGET TO PLUG THE BS MODULE OIL FEED HOLE!!!! I had a call last week about this. As soon as I tear into my car next week I'll show how to do it.
 

BioChoppers

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2003 jetta 5spd wagon
So this replaces the BHW chain driven oil pump with a BRM/ALH chain driven oil pump?
Why do that?
Here is another reason why. We had a new gear drive balance shaft assy strip the oil pump drive and almost cost an engine:

So we spoke to the cust and he jumped in and decided to volunteer to do the delete and since the Balance shafts where on back order world wide.

I spoke to Matt and went with the smaller BRM cog/higher oil pressure mod:



This is a great dealer tool to pull the crank gear instead of an impact hammer FYI:

Here's the shorter audi 1.8t oil pick up tube attached:



The baffle needs to be added to the list of parts Matt:
I used part #06B103623P and they are around $50
FYI you might want to also add the 3 OEM spring washers for the oil pump bolts to the list:
(spring washers) part # N0122345



Yea, and umm definitely plug the balance shaft oil feed... found that one out the hard way and had to pull the oil pan back off. If it's not plugged the result it about 8psi oil pressure at idle.






Everything fits nicely:
 
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BioChoppers

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50psi at idle:


at 3000 rpm:


This was done to an auto passat. It vibrates at idle just a little more and kind of reminds me of an auto MK4 with a modified dogbone mount and is perfectly tolerable. I took it for a spin tonight and I do notice the loss of that rotating mass as it revs faster without it.

That oil pump shaft stripping on the new balance shaft upgrade was very frustrating and we can't afford for that to happen again. I was able to dig up a couple other cases of it stripping with other people and in Europe. I have a feeling that Leonard will be wanting to go this route from now on. we'll see tomorrow when he drives it.

I really like this setup because I don't care for balance shafts on cars or bikes for that matter. Less rotating parts are less problematic in general. This was the original VW philosophy from the beginning anyhow. Plus you get better oil pressure and it revs faster.


Thanks for the helpful advice Matt. And thank you Aaron/Bora parts for help digging the part numbers and getting us the parts quickly.
 

thundershorts

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any history on this case of rounded off oil pump drive: mileage since conversion, oil type, excessive vibration, etc? Hope this isn't what we have to look forward to. I read there was a slight change in the gear bs production sometime late last year. wonder if it was in the oil pump drive. hopefully this was an isolated defect not the norm.
 

vwztips

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Is that a different chain gear than what originally comes on the BHW?
 

aja8888

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any history on this case of rounded off oil pump drive: mileage since conversion, oil type, excessive vibration, etc? Hope this isn't what we have to look forward to. I read there was a slight change in the gear bs production sometime late last year. wonder if it was in the oil pump drive. hopefully this was an isolated defect not the norm.
Back in 2008, the original concern that started this mess was based on finding the oil pump drive hex shaft worn severely on these cars. I believe that MoGolf was in contact with several folks regarding exploring a better shaft material or tighter tolerances for the shaft and corresponding female hex slot. This all went to pass with the start of the chain failures. Then it became evident that the chain drive was more problematic than worrying about the hex shaft wearing.

With the BS delete (you guys are good!), this eliminates a lot of potential issues.
 

Whitbread

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Glad you got that all wrapped up Scott and vibes aren't that bad! I'm looking forward to doing it to mine next week :). It looks like you used an 1/8" pipe tap and plug to cap the oil feed for the bs module? That's great, I've been hoping I could sneak an 1/8" tap in there.

Good catch on the windage tray, luckily I have one laying around so I'll toss that on my car. I'll update the first post with the PN. What spring washers are you taking about? I've never come across those.
 
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abctdi

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2005 Passat GLS
any history on this case of rounded off oil pump drive: mileage since conversion, oil type, excessive vibration, etc? Hope this isn't what we have to look forward to. I read there was a slight change in the gear bs production sometime late last year. wonder if it was in the oil pump drive. hopefully this was an isolated defect not the norm.
Good question and a follow-on.
What was the first indication it was going bad?
I've got a weird vibe that I'm attributing to a wearing cam/follower, but my mechanic bro-in-law keeps scratching his head and saying it does not sound or feel like a valve train issue.
We'll inspect the cam closely one of these days...
 

BioChoppers

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Glad you got that all wrapped up Scott and vibes aren't that bad! I'm looking forward to doing it to mine next week :). It looks like you used an 1/8" pipe tap and plug to cap the oil feed for the bs module? That's great, I've been hoping I could sneak an 1/8" tap in there.

Good catch on the windage tray, luckily I have one laying around so I'll toss that on my car. I'll update the first post with the PN. What spring washers are you taking about? I've never come across those.

Leonard drove the car today and said: "At idle it's like sitting on the seat of a 4cyl Honda compared to a Norton."
My butt is used to vibes and I am desensitized somewhat and don't mind a little back message while sitting at a stoplight, I might not be the best person to ask about it.
So yes there are vibes, and those who are still clutching their purses should NOT do this to their car, you know who you are...
The vibes are minimal and the added piece of mind and reliability are worth it IMO and Leonard's. In-fact we're doing another conversion momentarily.

These are the spring washers I was talking about: This is an ALH/BEW oil pump dig. #5


The tapping of the hole was not that simple. The oil hole is 5/16 starting out which is normally what you use for an 1/8 inch pipe tap but I ended up using an 11/32 drill bit and drill it pretty far (about 2.5 inches) with an air drill in order to tap it far enough and have the plug be flush and avoid breaking the tap.
One of these socket tap adapters is needed as the regular tap tools won't clear (I got away with pounding a 1/2in drive 10mm socket on the end of the tap with an extension in a pinch) :
 
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thundershorts

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I thought you meant an ES2 Norton thumper. you might have used a flat ended tap instead of the standard, although it might be hard to find, or break a tap in the middle and remove the taper, so not having to drill as deep. I would imagine the block is cast steel rather than cast iron, as you would have been able to tell the difference when you were drilling it by the chips.
 
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