Amsoil In this Thread only

Which AMSOIL?


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TDI Believer

Responsible For Global Warming
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Charles Town,WV
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2012 Touareg TDI
My 2004 B5.5 Passat has 53K miles on the ticker. When the warranty is up at 60K I will switch to the Amsoil. After 60K, VW won't cover an oil related failure no matter which oil I use. Amsoil will cover me if I use their oil.
 

RichS

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05 VW Jetta Wagon 5sp
I'm on board too Andy!

I've been my personal Amsoil dealer for over 6 years now. I too, like Long Range, have ELF oil in the engine now (the last of it) but purchased the reformulated Amsoil 5w-40 and will use it from here on out. In the past I've been extremely happy with the quality that Amsoil brings and will continue to use it.

The Jetta currently has 31,000 miles and will be fully changed over @ 40,000.:)
 

milehighassassin

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2005 Golf TDi PD, Reflex Silver
RichS said:
I've been my personal Amsoil dealer for over 6 years now. I too, like Long Range, have ELF oil in the engine now (the last of it) but purchased the reformulated Amsoil 5w-40 and will use it from here on out. In the past I've been extremely happy with the quality that Amsoil brings and will continue to use it.

The Jetta currently has 31,000 miles and will be fully changed over @ 40,000.:)
Are you planning on a UOA?

I am changing over at 40k as well. I would be interested to compare both of our UOA's.
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
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'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Ferrari said:
I've used the new reformulated AFL in my 05 PD-TDI for 16,000Km (10,000miles) before switching back to a true 505.01 oil (LubroMoly). I have not noticed any change in the way the engine feels, sounds, or fuel economy changes while using AFL.

My sister's 04 PD-TDI is currently on AFL, and after the 10K interval I'll be switching back to a 505.01 oil...
Thanks Ferrari. Did you notice any difference in feel, sounds, or economy when you moved to LM?

I used their oil and fuel additives when I lived in Germany - they make some excellent products.
 

Ferrari

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AndyH said:
Thanks Ferrari. Did you notice any difference in feel, sounds, or economy when you moved to LM?

I used their oil and fuel additives when I lived in Germany - they make some excellent products.
No I have not, the engine feels and sounds the same. The oil weights are roughly the same (13.7 cSt @ 100C) so I didn't expect any changes in the way the engine feels. I drove my sister's 04 PD-TDI yesterday (which is still on Amsoil AFL) for about 400KM and the engine was buttah-smooth and very responsive.

The only reason I changed is because my ProVent CCV gets full much, much quicker (so it traps a lot more oil vapor) when using a full synthetic 5W-40 oil (I used both Redline 5W40 and AFL and got the same results) then with a semi-synth 505.01 oil. I'm convinced that the 505.01 spec isn't recommended by VW to reduce engine wear, but to slow down intake clogging. Both Redline and AFL have better specs than regular 505.01 oils, so I'm not sure why they are so much more volatile.
 

AndyH

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'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Subtleties are a Factor

This is a bit analytical – so if you have a headache, or a 4-year old pulling on your leg wanting to play, you may want to skip this post for now…

I’d like to point out the effect on a conversation when all the participants don’t have the same background knowledge and/or familiarity with a subject. I think this is an example of where some threads ‘break-out’ into a parallel-universe.

In my post 75, where I included some info intended to validate Brian’s comment in post 52 about “harassment that went outside the forums”, I said in part “…one has no reason to suggest that my parents were never married…” As we know, one of us took that literally and was offended at the suggestion they had ever said anything about my parents.

How did this break-down? What happened? The …married… comment is an allusion to an old Bill Cosby comedy routine – ‘Himself’ from 1983 - where his wife says some things in the midst of childbirth – including the suggestion that ‘his parents were never married’ (in other words – she called him a bas…d). The comedy routine is excellent – but apparently not everyone in the world has heard it, so they didn’t ‘get’ the message I intended – that I’d been called names. It was never about my parents.

This same type of disconnect can happen anytime two people with different backgrounds communicate. One of the points made in every USAF writing and speaking course I attended in my career is that words are symbols used to convey a message. And the only way to guarantee that both the speaker and recipient get the same message from the word – the symbol – is if they have a ‘common core of experience’.

This type of disconnect is even more likely when the ‘sender’ and ‘receiver’ aren’t able to see each other, as somewhere between 65% (say psychologists) and 93% (say anthropologists) of communication is non-verbal. This suggests that any of us trying to communicate here on Fred’s are at a disadvantage - and are more likely to misunderstand each other - before a single word is typed.

Maybe there’s room for more restraint when posting in any thread – especially considering that we don’t all have a common core of experience, which is compounded by the lack of non-verbal clues to help us understand.

Unfortunately, that puts the burden on those that actually want to clearly communicate. Those that simply want to threadjack or disrupt can simply ‘toss a grenade’ into a thread and move on.
 

Diesel Addict

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Ferrari, how was your oil consumption on the AFL and Red Line oils compared to your 505.01 oil? What group is this particular 505.01 oil? I would think oil consumption is a more accurate indicator of actual volatility than how much oil accumulates in your CCV. So far all my cars have zero oil consumption on Red Line 5W-40, but I've only been using it for a few months. I'll keep checking.
 

Ferrari

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I just checked my sister's 04 PD-TDI (running Amsoil AFL) and she's about 1/2 quart down after 12,000Km, and the CCV was nearly full again after draining it 1,500Km ago. The same was happening when I was running RedLine 5W-40.

The interesting thing is that while the CCV accumulates oil at the same rate throughout the interval, the oil consumption is 0 for the first 10,000Km or so, and then I lose about 1L by the time I get to 15,000Km and I change the oil. Oil analysis at 15,000 shows that the oil is still a 40 weight and didn't shear down, so I find this quite strange.

I did not have any oil consumption problems while running Elf DID in both cars, and I had to drain the CCV every 5,000Km or so.
 

Diesel Addict

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Does one really need to drain the CCV or is it optional and where is it? I'm still fairly new to TDI's. The Mercedes have an oil separator that doesn't need any user attention as any liquid oil is drained back to the oil pan.

That oil consumption that you experienced is really weird and I don't have a good explanation either. Oil consumption does vary with driving style, so perhaps that could be a reason. Even if there's no oil consumption only for the first 10K km, that's still impressive. Do you know the volatility rating of Elf DID? I didn't see it listed on the Elf site.
 

Ferrari

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The ProVent CCV is an aftermarket CCV filter and it does need to be drained once in a while. It has minimal oil capacity, so I have to frain it quite often when I'm running full synthetics.

The NOACK % (volatility) of Elf DID is around 9% or so, which is similar to all other 505.01 semi-synth oils and worse than Redline (6%) and Amsoil.
 

Diesel Addict

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Does the stock CCV filter need to be drained?

Do you have any explanation for the higher fill rate of the CCV filter when using full synthetics? It's definitely a peculiar phenomenon.
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
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'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Ferrari – are your oil use results the same for both cars? Are they used basically the same, and do you and your sister have the same weight right foot? Are both used for long or short trips? How far away from the engine is the Provent mounted on each car? How many miles on each car?

This isn't a full solution, but hopefully will get us closer to figuring out oil use. Calling all tribologists, chemists, and diesel emissions experts!

Volatility measures the oil that changes state - like from liquid to vapor. Noack or Din volatility will have an impact on oil consumption and viscosity change over a drain interval, but vaporized oil is sucked thru the breather, into the air intake, and burned in the combustion chamber. I’m not sure at what temperature the vapors would have to cool to in order to condense, so don’t know if this is a factor with the Provent. I suspect the stock breather plumbing is designed to keep the vapors hot enough to keep the oil from condensing.

The vent puck is also supposed to be an oil vapor separator - combining small airborne oil droplets into larger droplets and draining them back into the oil pan. I haven't seen a lot of conversation on the later models and CCV pucks - but the B4s are supposed to have the worst pucks. This liquid is what is ending up in the Provent - or being sucked into the intake and pooling in the air tubing and/or intercooler. I think it’s the liquid oil that’s combining with the soot and causing the intake clogging downstream of the EGR. I'm at 15,000 miles on the new AFL in my '97 Passat and I've used about 1/2 a quart so far - most of that after 8000 miles.

If the only oil you're loosing is coming from the air/oil separator, your oil consumption would only drop the amount you’re draining from the Provent, and it would be consistent over the drain interval.

If you’re only loosing oil due to volatility, you’d loose most of it early in the oil change interval until the lighter fractions come off in the heat. This suggests initial oil use that tapers-off off as the car is driven.

Last piece, I think, is that dirty oil gets past the piston rings easier than clean oil. This causes oil use thru blowby to start at nearly zero and increase (exponentially?) with time.

VW 505.01 doesn’t list volatility requirements. It is based on both 500.00 and 505.00. 505.00 has a volatility limit of less than or equal to 15% for 5W-40. 500.00 has a limit of less than or equal to 13%. VW 500.00 must meet ACEA A3, while 505.00 must meet B3 or B4. A3/B3 and A3/B4 both have less than or equal to 13% loss limits. It looks like 13% is the upper limit for 505.01 per VW and the ACEA.

As reported, Redline 5W-40’s volatility is 6%; AFL’s is 8.9%.

I think your oil loss is due to dirty oil getting past the rings and being burned. I don’t think you’ll notice a change in this pattern, all things being equal, by moving to oil with a different volatility, as there’s only a 4% increase available if a Group III maxes out at 13%.

Andy
 

milehighassassin

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Diesel Addict said:
Does the stock CCV filter need to be drained?

Do you have any explanation for the higher fill rate of the CCV filter when using full synthetics? It's definitely a peculiar phenomenon.
There is not stock CCV filter. It is an option that people add to their cars aftermarket. Wise investment.
 

Ferrari

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Diesel Addict said:
Does the stock CCV filter need to be drained?

Do you have any explanation for the higher fill rate of the CCV filter when using full synthetics? It's definitely a peculiar phenomenon.
As milehighassassin said, there is no stock CCV. I have no explanation as to why the CCV filter traps a lot more oil, so there must be more to an oil than the specs indicate...
 

Ferrari

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AndyH said:
Ferrari – are your oil use results the same for both cars? Are they used basically the same, and do you and your sister have the same weight right foot? Are both used for long or short trips? How far away from the engine is the Provent mounted on each car? How many miles on each car?
The results are the same for both cars. They are used the same, 50-50 highway and city driving, me having the heavier foot, although she does not baby the car. The ProVent CCV is mounted next to the oil filter housing. The cars have around 52,000Km.
 

Long_Range

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Perhaps the vapors of full synthetic oil condense at a higher temperature than group III oils? Thus increasing the effectiveness of the After market CCV.

That's a shot in the dark but it's the only theory I can conjure up which makes sense to me.
 

Diesel Addict

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That sounds like a valid theory Long_Range and it makes sense to me too. G4/G5 synthetics have a higher flash point and thus tend to be more in the liquid state at a given high temperature. This difference is more likely to show up in the CCV filter where the volume is small than in the form of oil consumption where the observable volume is the whole oil pan.

Wow, I can't believe how civilized this thread has been so far. I hope it stays this way.
 

RichS

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milehighassassin said:
Are you planning on a UOA?

I am changing over at 40k as well. I would be interested to compare both of our UOA's.
No, I was not planning to do a UOA. Maybe when I get a little closer to 40,000 I might feel differently. Thanks.
 

jasonTDI

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A TRUE 505.01?

Either it complies or it does not.

Ferrari said:
I've used the new reformulated AFL in my 05 PD-TDI for 16,000Km (10,000miles) before switching back to a true 505.01 oil (LubroMoly). I have not noticed any change in the way the engine feels, sounds, or fuel economy changes while using AFL.

My sister's 04 PD-TDI is currently on AFL, and after the 10K interval I'll be switching back to a 505.01 oil...
 

jasonTDI

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Some good points about the sCCV systems. My B4 around town uses .5liter in 2000 miles. On the highway it easily doubles that and then some. Granted I only have 5 K on it since the top end rebuild. But the CCV bypass is FULL of oil. A lot of it. (vent to atmosphere)

The jetta uses less but similar situation on the highway. About 1 liter every 5K miles. Always has used that since new. Also a recent top end rebuild since I did new head gaskets and ARP's.

The Jetta has been running the amsoil reform for the past 3 5K changes, the Passat is on it's first. I did not use as much with Delvac1 but they are the same base.....who knows. Sorry for the rambling.
 

LurkerMike

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Hi Andy,

I believe you are an honest person... would you tell me of any and all engine failures that you have ever heard of where any grade Amsoil was even remotely suspected of contributing to the failure?

There is wide acceptance here that using a non-505.01 spec oil in a PD will cause an untimely failure of the cam lobes that operate the injectors... but has this actually happened to anyone here? And if so, exactly what oil were they using? I see the Delvac thread and I am only at page 15 in catching up now...

I suspect that this forum is much tougher on oils in general, the people who sell them and Amsoil specificly than the real world of an engine crankcase... :rolleyes:
 

tdi06

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Cleveland, Ohio
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06' Jetta tdi 5 spd
I started using AFL (And a VW oil filter) for my first oil change at 5000 miles. My car used about 1 liter of the factory installed oil before the first OC and I had topped it off. I am at 9000 miles now (4000 miles on AFL) and it shows no sign of any oil useage. I am coming up on another OC at 10,000 miles and AFL and VW filter are going in again, this time for 10,000 miles per the book. I have noticed no differance other than the oil consumption rate with the AFL as mileage and engine noise remained about the same as factory fill.
 

nicklockard

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Arizona
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Brian already summed up the solution: Amsoil lovers should not make testimonial sales pitches or any statement that reads like one (should remain mindful that any testimonial is just "pushing buttons" and is bound to trigger a nasty reaction), and Amsoil haters should STFU on their FUD.

But, we know THAT will never happen:D Har har har har! Not in a million years.

That's why I still think an Amsoil sub-forum all to its lonesome would work--we'd just corral all that soap opera stuff off to the side so 99.8% of us uninterested readers could easily ignore it;) Oh, and to pay for the extra bandwidth, they (Amsoil thread posters) could be asked to pay $5 a month:p Or hey, I'll dig up an old computer and it can be an Amsoil only server (Fred, put it on a dial up modem:D :p .)

BTW: I'd never even HEARD about Amsoil until joining this club. I had no idea things could get so passionate about OIL, of all things. It always makes me laugh:cool:
 

dieseldorf

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nicklockard said:
That's why I still think an Amsoil sub-forum all to its lonesome would work--we'd just corral all that soap opera stuff off to the side so 99.8% of us uninterested readers could easily ignore it...
What a great idea! Far gentler than what's happened at other forums ;)
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
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'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
I still think that it's about behavior.

If someone says that using a product will automatically void warranty - and I step in and suggest that point is incorrect - and someone else jumps in with an attack on AMSOIL because I'm a dealer - who do you blame?

1. The guy that made the bad warranty statement
2. The guy that tried to set it strait
3, The guy that hijacked the thread

My answer is still number 3.
 

Frank M

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point is incorrect

AndyH said:
I still think that it's about behavior.

If someone says that using a product will automatically void warranty - and I step in and suggest that point is incorrect - and someone else jumps in with an attack on AMSOIL because I'm a dealer - who do you blame?

1. The guy that made the bad warranty statement
2. The guy that tried to set it strait
3, The guy that hijacked the thread

My answer is still number 3.
The guy that suggested that point is incorrect..;)
 

wjdell

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Got a whole case of AFL and afraid to use it. I ordered before I read and well, I bought Motul to be safe. Its kinda sucks - I am going to use the Motul to satisfy VW but wish I could use the Amsoil - it contains Boron and from what I have read that would help that cam problem, am I wrong. I put a prelube on and I tested it over and over and it works. I have at min 7 psi before my engine starts to turn, more often about 15 to 20 psi. The pressure is relative to the oil pressure at shutdown, and the time. In August I will let the motor sit for 8 days and then try and see if it still works. Now the VW oil pump is no slouch and I have a gauge on the motor. Before the engine has its first compression ignition the oil psi is above 40 psi. I can tell you that the oil pump on these engines builds pressure fast. I installed the pre lube and even my wife who knows nothing about cars remarked it was quieter at start up. She had no clue that what I installed was relative to noise at start up.

I was hoping in time that Amsoil would submit to a VW test that will approve all, 507 maybe. Motul I THINK has plans for a true synthetic 5w40.
 
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