16mpg 5.5 AVF TDI PASSAT

mohamed.bouchair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Location
Bizerte, Tunisia
TDI
B5.5 TDI Passat 130BHP
Torsion value will tend flutter a bit at very high rpm due to belt stretch. I would be more concerned if the value was fixed at 0.0 and never moved, that might indicate it was stuck out of range. This one seems quite normal.

I'm pretty well out of ideas at this point...
thanks a lot for your support guy :)

So next step,
I'm going remove the injectors and replace all seals (who knows).

The step after,
Replace the torque converter (slipping a bit).

Will let you know
 

mohamed.bouchair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Location
Bizerte, Tunisia
TDI
B5.5 TDI Passat 130BHP
Update !

Hi all,

Today I started the car in my aerated garage and left her worming for 5mins. When I was back, The air in the garage was suffocating with unburnt fuel (not carbon) .

Even my pre-PD 1Z 1.9TDI JETTA doesn't make all this pollution (200k miles on the clock).

I'm pretty sure that my poor passat mileage is closely related with this unburnt diesel. But how ?

Any comments ?
 

mohamed.bouchair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Location
Bizerte, Tunisia
TDI
B5.5 TDI Passat 130BHP
What was the compression when you tested it?
I can't remember the exact values for each cylinder but they were all around 25bars/366psi.

But today I took her for a test drive on highway and I can barly reach 160kmh/100mph :eek:

When I was back i plugged VAG-COM and i found the below code :
17672 - PD Unit Injector: Cylinder 2 (N241): Regulation Range Exceeded
P1264 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

Could it be the injector adjustment ?
 

2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
WHAT AN AWESOME POST!!! I have been chasing this issue on my wife's car for 2 years now!!! I've installed a new head gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, new cv shafts on both sides (reduced the MASSIVE vibration at stop lights in gear, but didn't fix the millage issue). New cam, lifters, etc because they were flattened and destroyed, installed the new balance shaft module because the chain was rattling and almost fully worn through the Teflon tension keeper device. Still nothing!!!
When I bought the car with 150,000km on it, I was getting 4.6L/100km on super smooth roads with cruise!! I was in love!
Now with only 315,000km I barely get 6.5L/100km. A full tank only gives me 800-850 km, when it used to give 1050! My old 1992 jetta with 460,000km blows this Passat away!
Anyway, I would not have found this post if it wasn't for my latest disappointment. It seems as though overnight the idle (park or neutral) millage is up to 1.3L/100km, it will rest down to 1.0, but then creeps back to 1.3, just like yours.
I was really excited when you guys started talking about Cats, because mine is original still. I do like the injector theory too because mine stumbles a little bit when idling (could be air getting in), which on the computer showed MAF sensor, so I replaced it and it with a Bosch one, but it did nothing. This might also explain my periodic issue where it cranks about 10 times, then fires... for no reason! remember in the old days when diesel injection pumps would drain back to the tank if the input drive shaft lip seal was leaking? hehehe.

IF we can solve this high millage issue and sounding a bit louder at idle, I'm all game! The car even sounds loud listening to it drive away, like its revving unnecessarily for no reason. It does shift really high (2800RPM) in all gears, and I hate it too!). Idle RPM looks to be about 800ish rpm.

At one point I was thinking pD injection pump that drives off the cam because of that recall from years ago... but I'm much past my 100,000km warrantee to play around with expensive bills like that.

As a side note about your misfire.. I'm assuming you mean glow plugs because there are no spark plugs to misfire with. I had sooooo many problems with glowplugs, VW re-did my computer system 4 times by reverting the flash, etc. Eventually I said forget it, and just bought 4 new plugs (which come with wires - deceiving part name), and a new glowplug relay. I wired them all and soldered the connections, and gooped them up with liquid hardening electrical tape. NOT even one code since I did it! it also starts WAY better in the winter now.

I will call my mechanic about the idling high thing, and see what he thinks. he might want to check timing again. I've read of guys saying "0" actually isn't the best sometimes. One time we rebuilt a Toyota gas car with an engine from the junk yard. it started but failed the Etest. it seemed fine to us. So we swapped the ORIGINAL injectors into the new junk yard motor, and it passed like a dream! I guess the ECU was tuned to the certain ones.... so suppose OUR old injectors (and/or seals) are passing more then they were from day one, then maybe this is our high revving / diesel usage, and the cause of my slight idle stumble. The ECU says slow down and close off, but it already is at minimum position... in the old days, it would be like testing an injector and seeing a bad spray pattern, or droplets starting at 1800 psi, rather than a nice misting spray at 2200 psi.


Thanks for the help on this forum gang!
Steve.
 

2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
You are welcome. It's amazing what is on these forums.

Maybe someone else has had a similar issue, and solved it by ...
hehe
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
FYI, just helped a friend rebuild a BHW that had broken the BSM chain. While at it we installed a new stock cam/lifters etc. MPG's were a little lower than hoped for so I told him to let it break in a little before we adjusted anything. (However this thing runs like a scalded dog even with the automatic and stock engine.) After a few weeks and several thousand miles, we set the timing to -1.5 torsion value and he picked up 2-3 MPG's. He ran it that way for a few weeks and adjusted again going to -2.5 to see if we could improve it more. He has not had a chance to run several tanks yet so we will see if this helped or hurt.

On another note, with the Frank06 cams I have run -4.0 torsion value and gotten the best MPG.

Can't hurt to incrementally adjust it and see if it helps.
 

@Tdi VW

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Location
Milano
TDI
Passat Pumpe Duse
Does ur car has a diesel cooling system ?If yes, the AVF and AWX iniectors are not the same, nor the ECU map.

You car needs to be remapped with a AWX map so the iniectors will work ok ;)
 

2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
I like what I'm hearing. I called my mechanic today to have him change the timing. But he is on holidays for a few weeks. He purposely set it at 0.0 because this "what it should be".
If I have him try a crazy number like -4.0 right away, should I hear the loud engine noise go away, and instantly see the parked "idling L/100km" drop?

I don't believe the diesel fuel is cooled, except for the mini cooling unit under the body along the frame by the passenger door (it is a wagon). I haven't really looked into injectors, or their cost yet, but I take it from your post that I have options? I asked my service booking guy today, and he said he has no recollection of his mechanic changing injectors on a Passat like mine. I'm not looking for performance, but rather MPG. I pull a 2500# boat a few times a week in the summer months, but only on short 10 minute trips each way to the dock ramp and back home.
Thanks,
Steve.
 

2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
maybe when VW re-programmed my computer to "go back to the original" glow plugs, they screwed up and set the wrong style of injectors in the ECU? Can one see what the ECU is set for in VagCom?
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
Yes, most Passats with stock cams, stock injectors, etc. should be set to 0.0 to start with. I would advise adjusting the timing gradually before jumping all the way to -4.0. Start at -1.5 to -2.0 and see if that helps.
I like what I'm hearing. I called my mechanic today to have him change the timing. But he is on holidays for a few weeks. He purposely set it at 0.0 because this "what it should be".
If I have him try a crazy number like -4.0 right away, should I hear the loud engine noise go away, and instantly see the parked "idling L/100km" drop?

I don't believe the diesel fuel is cooled, except for the mini cooling unit under the body along the frame by the passenger door (it is a wagon). I haven't really looked into injectors, or their cost yet, but I take it from your post that I have options? I asked my service booking guy today, and he said he has no recollection of his mechanic changing injectors on a Passat like mine. I'm not looking for performance, but rather MPG. I pull a 2500# boat a few times a week in the summer months, but only on short 10 minute trips each way to the dock ramp and back home.
Thanks,
Steve.
 

iulian_2007

New member
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Location
Romania
TDI
Passat B5.5 AVF
It seems I have same problem - high fuel consumption. My car is a wagon Passat B5.5 from 2003 with AVF engine, 130hp, tiptronic gearbox. When idle in P mode 0.8l/h when idle in D 1.6l/h + bonus vibrating when in D at stop light. Driving in town takes 12l/100km and outside 7.5l/100km, which seems high to me. The timing is set now at 2.2-2.8, if I put it to 0, I get even bigger fuel consumption.
 

dieseltje

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Location
Groningen (The Netherlands)
TDI
Passat 3BG AVF/TT 2005
mine AVF / Tiptronic 2005 model, also same problem consumption between 8 an 7,5l/100km
I drive only longdistance.

@julian 2007. What is your f.consumption now, after changing timing to 2.2-2.8?

I Recently bought this car. My old B5.5 wit AVB engine and Tiptronic gearbox had consumption arround 5.8l/100km
 
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iulian_2007

New member
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Location
Romania
TDI
Passat B5.5 AVF
That consumption is with timing at 2.2-2.8, is a litle bit lower now, temperature is 15-20 degrees now.

Idle in P: 0.7 l/h (fixed)
Idle in D: 1.3 - 1.5 l/h (not fixed)
Driving in town: 11-12l/100km
Driving outside: 7-7.5l/100km
 

2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
We are all experiencing the same problem. I personally had a horrible vibration problem that was solved by changing the CV shaft.

This problem is different because the HIGH consumption is there in neutral even. Like I mentioned in the post earlier, the car used to get 950-1000 km from a tank, now we struggle and drive like sissies to try and get 825 etc.

Something is wrong.
I might have this Friday off, so If I do, i'll bring it to my mechanic to see if he can take a gander at the injectors and see if he thinks they are leaking, drippling, etc.

Also, I replaced the worn out cam and lifters. The exhaust noise in the engine was so bad! Well bad news, the noise seems to be creeping back....
 

2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
Julian_2007, are you saying +2.2??

Steve.
 

iulian_2007

New member
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Location
Romania
TDI
Passat B5.5 AVF
Yes, timing is set at +2.2 and is going to +2.8 from time to time.
If I set timing to 0, I get bigger fuel consumption. If I set it to -x (negative), I get even bigger, so is now at +2.2 where I get 0.7l/h at idle in P or N.
 
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2005passatsteve

Active member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Location
Ontario Canada
TDI
2005 passat tdi wagon, 2004 Jetta TDI, 1992 Jetta TD, 1997 Jetta TD, 1991 Passat Gas wagon converted to Standard tranny and TD.
Interesting. Maybe the timing value reflects how precise the injection time was setup on the timing cog gear?
The timing cog gear is on slotted bolt holes, so maybe if it is off a bit, then for you, adjusting it POSITIVE is more closer to "0.0", but for others, going NEGATIVE retards their timing back to 0.0 because the cog is slightly off of 0.0 in the slotted holes???

I am really beginning to see the need to have VCDS to play around!

On another post, someone mentioned their "fuel injection rate" of being around 12.5. This made a high amount of fuel injection during idle especially. VCDS calls for 9 max I think. What are your thoughts and current settings for the lower fuel rate you are achieving?
 

dieseltje

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Location
Groningen (The Netherlands)
TDI
Passat 3BG AVF/TT 2005
At this moment I have a fuel isseu with my car.
We had allready changed all nozzels, head gasket, Tandempump.
One day I had good consumption. about 5.1~5.3 when driving 110 km/hr. then after crossing a roundabout, consumtion was with the same speed arround 8,5 ltr/100km
I changed fuel filter and consumption was good again. Then after two weeks again high consumption and again I replaced fuel filter.
As I bought this car only 4 months ago I think that the old owner did not maintain his car.
I know suspect that I have some bacteria in my fueltank, that causes some black/brown sludge in fueltank. When I replaced the fuel filter I emptied it into an bucket and I found the black/brown slugde in the filter.

Next week were going to clean the fueltank and all fuel lines.
 
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iulian_2007

New member
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Location
Romania
TDI
Passat B5.5 AVF
Timing now set to 0.0.
In P, I have 1.0l/h, in D at idle I have 1.7l/h, these are with AC and everything else off.
Cleaned EGR and the gallery, same high fuel consumption :(
 

auntulna

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Location
Springfield, MO
TDI
05 GLS Passat wagon, mit panzer plate
This is a bizarre thread. Mohamed, man, come back and tell us the rest!

The high fuel number in group zero is at idle, not dragging brakes then.

I have that too, and it ain't solved yet.
 

dieseltje

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Location
Groningen (The Netherlands)
TDI
Passat 3BG AVF/TT 2005
Timing now set to 0.0.
In P, I have 1.0l/h, in D at idle I have 1.7l/h, these are with AC and everything else off.
Cleaned EGR and the gallery, same high fuel consumption :(
I checked my timing also it is also 0.0
Idle engine speed is 903 rpm
In P I have 1.0l/h and in D also 1.7l/h but I have airco and lights, radio (MFD) on
When I turn everything off, it drops to 0,8/0,9l/h
 

mohamed.bouchair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Location
Bizerte, Tunisia
TDI
B5.5 TDI Passat 130BHP
Call of duty ;)

This is a bizarre thread. Mohamed, man, come back and tell us the rest!

The high fuel number in group zero is at idle, not dragging brakes then.

I have that too, and it ain't solved yet.

Dear auntulna,

I'm terribly sorry for my very long abscence. I was very busy the latest few months.

So yes. In fact, the ECU perceived fuel consumption (group 001) is at idle, Parking or Neutral engaged and all electrical consuming devices are switched off.

Could you please send us some VCDS screenshots showing at least 001, 004 and 013 groups.

Cheers,
Mohamed.
 

dieseltje

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Location
Groningen (The Netherlands)
TDI
Passat 3BG AVF/TT 2005
My problems are solved. Main reason was that the front brakes were blocking slightly.
But fuel consumption stays high. But it seams to be normal for a AVF with tiptronic gearbox
 

R-TDIGR

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2009
Location
SR
TDI
GOLF TDI
ok, because i have a BRM with the same problem.
Idle injection quantity: 13.5 mg/str
idle fuel consumption: 1.6 l/h

Maybe somebody with a BRM can post their readings for comparison.

thanks
 

mohamed.bouchair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Location
Bizerte, Tunisia
TDI
B5.5 TDI Passat 130BHP
Problem solved

Hi there,
End finally the problem was SOLVED :D:D:D:D
The old Owner of the car seemed to have changed the ECU (the old one should have been fried or something), installed a new one with the wrong part number.
I reflashed the ECU with the correct version of the engine and "VOILA" the car went back to normal.
Thank yall for your support.
See ya soon guys.
 
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