Effects of too much additive?

I admit I'm a bit sloppy in measuring out the additive added to the tank.

I usually eyeball it, using DieselKleen, and I think I may add more than the 5-6 ounces that is required for one tank on my 2013 TDI.

Is it at all harmful to be using more additive than the recommended proportion?

Paulus

The only thing it will harm is your pocketbook.

An ounce or two over? Probably harmless. If you start dumping a gallon of the stuff though, I'd imagine things would get weird.

One time I was quite low on fuel, and the car wouldn't start. I dumped a bottle of that in the tank because I was in a pinch and it started. I drove to the filling station and filled it up! So It got me out of a pinch

There was a thread here about a paper on too much additive. Can't find it though.

I never measure the amount of additive I use and I tend to overdose it a bit. I typically use about an ounce of additive per gallon. With PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) or Diesel Kleen (silver bottle), I've found that MPGs go DOWN a little bit if I overdose it. With Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat (my favorite additive), I've found the additive helps MPGs some but an overdose simply provides no additional benefit.

I fuel up ONLY at busy high volume / high turnover stations along major routes to get only the freshest fuel in the region. I also regularly use an additive (Howes). Going on 13 years and more than 700k miles of diesel driving and with ZERO fuel related issues.

Good luck.

I'm in the dump and go club, but I normally only use it when it gets really cold to prevent gelling.

Only using Stanadyne Lubricity due to ULSD.

I've ran her on pure Powerservice and kerosene to get to a station.

BlankThis said:

I've ran her on pure Powerservice and kerosene to get to a station.

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Similar story!

Many years ago in my 1980 VW Rabbit diesel, I forgot to stop for fuel on the way home from work (I live in a rural area.). As I topped a hill, the engine began to act like was going to stall out. I realized what was going on and shut down the engine as it coasted into a friend's drive-way.

He never had anything but gasoline and oil. So, I did about a 50/50 mix (two quarts each) and dumped it in the tank. I cranked the engine over several times and it fired up. I headed back into town for fuel ........ with a bit of smoke following me!

what about to much biocide? I need Lasik an did the "shock" dosage rather than the standard! I did 3 oz per 5 gallons of fuel rather than the standard 50 gallons of fuel Google search says it can cause fuel sender damage

rcracer said:

Only using Stanadyne Lubricity due to ULSD.

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All the major brands are ULSD formulated today.

Most additives use a chemical similar to mineral spirits as the carrier for the actual additive components. The ratios vary, but 60-80% is common. A little overdosing is typically harmless, but significant overdosing is not advisable.

I fill the filter with power service for each change


Sent from my iPhone while eating a cheeseburger and driving 45 in the fast lane.

I have an extensive background in additives as related to 2 stroke and 4 stroke gasoline engines. Just recently my company began work understanding diesels and the relationship to additives. I could write a book on gasoline additives but that would be boring. The simple answer is to "never" overdose. In most cases you are either throwing money away or will eventually create a new problem. Do additives work "yes". Do you need to be careful "yes". I don't want to say who I work for as we don't advertise or sell products on this site. This is a great forum and I purchase products from a sponsor of this site for my 2013 Passat TDI.

Using additives since day one. OK, since the 2nd tank of diesel as I know the dealer didn't add any when I purchased it. PowerService mostly with a few Stanadyne doses here and there. 4-6 oz's. Doesn't need to be exact. 161K miles and still going....

btw... I have NEVER used any of those additives that say "Can be used for gas or diesel engines." Run, run away from those!

cooldadtexas said:

I have an extensive background in additives as related to 2 stroke and 4 stroke gasoline engines. Just recently my company began work understanding diesels and the relationship to additives. I could write a book on gasoline additives but that would be boring. The simple answer is to "never" overdose. In most cases you are either throwing money away or will eventually create a new problem. Do additives work "yes". Do you need to be careful "yes". I don't want to say who I work for as we don't advertise or sell products on this site. This is a great forum and I purchase products from a sponsor of this site for my 2013 Passat TDI.

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You might think I'm an A-hole for asking, but why are you advising on the use of additives in diesel engines, when you clearly state your company's experience is with gasoline engines?

What do you base your advise on?

In addition to using DieselKleen, I will also use Seafoam from time to time, I also began using a bit of 2 stroke oil (about 8 ounces per tank) to deal with the USLD diesel. I was doing this to my 7.3L Powerstroke when I had it. I did not see any MPG increase but did not expect to.

Cha2ga said:

I fill the filter with power service for each change


Sent from my iPhone while eating a cheeseburger and driving 45 in the fast lane.

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Same here.

I have been keeping my eye on diesel additives for years. Some knowledge is transferable between diesel and gasoline engines and some is not. What really has me concerned is the lack of bench testing on additives and what they do to the DEF systems. The DEF systems are very expensive to repair and I have seen little to no solid test results. The second area of concern is Wear Scar. If we all agree 500 is to high, do we treat to 450 and call it a day. Any benefit or downside taking it down to 350. I am just another VW owner who wants the best for his car. I will say that this site has some very good information and thanks to those who contribute on a regular basis. No offense taken as I am a new member.

cooldadtexas said:

I have been keeping my eye on diesel additives for years. Some knowledge is transferable between diesel and gasoline engines and some is not. What really has me concerned is the lack of bench testing on additives and what they do to the DEF systems. The DEF systems are very expensive to repair and I have seen little to no solid test results. The second area of concern is Wear Scar. If we all agree 500 is to high, do we treat to 450 and call it a day. Any benefit or downside taking it down to 350. I am just another VW owner who wants the best for his car. I will say that this site has some very good information and thanks to those who contribute on a regular basis. No offense taken as I am a new member.

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The additive bottle should state if it is safe for 2007 and later diesels. It should also state if overuse or overdosing is harmful.

cooldadtexas said:

I have been keeping my eye on diesel additives for years. Some knowledge is transferable between diesel and gasoline engines and some is not. What really has me concerned is the lack of bench testing on additives and what they do to the DEF systems. The DEF systems are very expensive to repair and I have seen little to no solid test results. The second area of concern is Wear Scar. If we all agree 500 is to high, do we treat to 450 and call it a day. Any benefit or downside taking it down to 350. I am just another VW owner who wants the best for his car. I will say that this site has some very good information and thanks to those who contribute on a regular basis. No offense taken as I am a new member.

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Glad to have you amongst us. We're all asking similar questions about long-term usage of additives. We're also aware that the additives the consumer adds are the same that the end-line fuel dealer is, or should, be adding, so the question continues: IF the fuel is already adequately "additized" by the fuel dealer, does ADDING create greater issues for pumps/injectors/emissions systems. We already suspect that the additives are (possibly) important if the fuel ISN'T properly additized.

Those of us early CR owners have to accept that we are functioning as "beta testers" for the auto/fuel industry. No one knows what the "real world" variables will do to the durability of all of the fuel pumps/injectors/emissions systems.

(PS: you meant DPF (diesel particulate filter) not DEF (diesel exhaust fluid)

If you would take a good look at the Powerservice products - you'll find they are mostly highly refined D2 (now ULSD) along with the "additives" the manufacturer is putting in. QED - it may not be a good use of those products to run them without mixing, but it's not going to hurt your car. I have not looked too much at anything else, but a similar observation would not surprise me.

Those of us early CR owners have to accept that we are functioning as "beta testers" for the auto/fuel industry. No one knows what the "real world" variables will do to the durability of all of the fuel pumps/injectors/emissions systems.

With all respect, I think the beta testing was accomplished years ago. Don't fuel up with gasoline or kerosene and in all likelihood your fuel system will live a long, long time. I personally additize with ashless two stroke oil(cheap, available, and effective) . I'm not too concerned about the emissions system as i have a downpipe ready to install. I'm pretty certain threre are many 250,000+ mile cr tdi's running around with zero additive use.

Mutual respect, yes, but there are 2012, 2013 AND 2014 HPFPs failing.

If you read this thread at least to post 14, you will see that some of the lubricity additives that people add to save your HPFP is killing other areas of your engine and emissions systems.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=437726

It seems to me that the only real problems with most overdosing is the effect that will happen with blowby into the oil. And in this arena, the cetane enhancer chemical(s) would be the culprit. That is, since most cetane enhancer that I have ever heard identified is a nitrate. That nitrate radical stuck onto a hydrocarbon chain serves to help ignite the fuel since it is much less stable and so it burns easily. The results of it burning are nitrogen compound(s) that, combined with water vapor (also a combustion product) create nitric acid.

Since oils contain a base component specifically to neutralize such combustion product acids, you can rest assured that damage will result if:

1) you massively overdose on every tank
2) you only drive short trips, never letting the engine warm up
3) you do not change the oil when you should.

Of course, the caveat is the oft asked and never answered question of how much is too much? I can't answer that either.

So my answer to the OP's original question is, don't worry about it. Get the additive level close with your favorite additive and drive more, worry less.

Cheers,

PH

Here's a better question..... if you are running B5 or even B10, is ANY additive too much (other than a biocide)?

^^^ANYBODY who pretends to have the answer to this question is just...PRETENDING!

ameoba said:

Here's a better question..... if you are running B5 or even B10, is ANY additive too much (other than a biocide)?

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I am going to assume you mean a lubricity additive, because even with Bio, I still think you need deposit control and water control.

So with lubricity additives, they seem to be less effective the better the fuel is to start. Lets make up and additive to show an example. Lets call it..... Testimonials Only.

So when we test Testimonials Only on fuel that has an HRFF of 550, the additive will get it down to an HRFF of 320.

When we test Testimonials Only on fuel that has an HRFF of 450, the additive will get us down to an HRFF of 290.

When we test Testimonials Only on fuel that has an HRFF of 350, the additive will get us down to an HRFF of 270.

When we test Testimonials Only on fuel that has an HRFF of 250, the additive will get us down to an HRFF of 245.

When we test Testimonials Only on fuel that has an HRFF of 150, the additive will get us down to an HRFF of 150.

The better a fuel is, the less the additive package for lubricants will help.

I have talked with Steve about this and I think they tested their product (XPD) on B10 or B20 and the HRFF score got worse. But there is a variance in how an HRFF test is done, so it probably has no effect on the fuel.

tdiatlast said:

^^^ANYBODY who pretends to have the answer to this question is just...PRETENDING!

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I'm in