www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 6th, 2019, 13:12   #1
Dgravle514
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: South Carolina
TDI(s): 14' JSW
Default Used oil analysis is alarming

I just wanted to post this here and see what you guys would have to say about this UOA report. My metal levels seemed a little more elevated than average, but I do have more miles on this interval than the universal averages (8000) in the right column. Should I be alarmed or just let it go? I am going to have to put a DMF in it in the next couple weeks, but I really did not want to put any more money into the car if something was going on with the engine. The Photo is in the google link below.




84,0000 Miles on CBJAA 14 Sportwagen
10,400 Oil Change Interval




https://photos.app.goo.gl/bM5JK7zHTvM9mV3LA

Last edited by Dgravle514; November 6th, 2019 at 14:00.
Dgravle514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2019, 20:26   #2
James & Son
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI(s): 2006 Jetta
Default

You have about a tablespoon of fuel in each quart of oil. Do you do a lot of short runs or is your thermostat not functioning properly. I don't see how that is possible if you are running more than 30 miles an operating cycle. I am not familiar with the emmisions and changes, is the emmission cycle operating normal, otherwise I would be blaming this on volkswagon.

Last edited by James & Son; November 6th, 2019 at 20:29.
James & Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 06:55   #3
Dgravle514
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: South Carolina
TDI(s): 14' JSW
Default

My daily commute is about 30 miles one way, but on the other hand I do run a lot of short trips as well. Thermostat seems to be working fine. The DPF was replaced about half way through this oil change interval because it was clogged. VW replaced it under warranty. I would think that the clogged DPF would have a huge effect on the oil, because it ran many more regens than it should have been.
Dgravle514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 08:10   #4
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

Yes, the dilution was probably caused by excessive regens to a loaded dpf.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 09:25   #5
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgravle514 View Post
Thermostat seems to be working fine.
How do you know? The gauges on these cars are so heavily dampened that they read normal for a very wide range of temps. And a poorly functioning thermostat can prevent regens, which can also lead to DPF clogging. Since your DPF needed replacement, I'd question the thermostat. It would be worthwhile to have someone check the actual coolant temp when the car's been running long enough to get up to full temperature.

Reading that report, the metals seem more concerning than the fuel in the oil, at least to me. But Blackstone's reports seem to read like that a lot. Maybe they're nothing to worry about, at least nothing you can do anything about, other than making sure you're using the correct oil and a good filter.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 397K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 197K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 260K; 2011 335d, 63K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 13K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 09:28   #6
Lightflyer1
Veteran Member
 
Lightflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Default

If extra regens are the issue you need to take a more active role in letting them complete when needed. No way that DPF should have been clogged already and short tripping can cause this to happen. Get a tool/app that lets you monitor the regens and use it to let them happen when needed. Otherwise I would suspect you will be seeing the dealer for issues pretty regularly. VagDPF and a BT dongle works pretty well for this. Pretty inexpensive as well. Does your multifunction display show actual temps? If not get someone to use VCDS or similar to read your actual operating temps for you.

One report, especially the first one doesn't mean much anyway. You are really looking at trends here and not just one instance.
__________________
How to post pics:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...t=post+picture

Last edited by Lightflyer1; November 7th, 2019 at 09:31.
Lightflyer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 10:07   #7
03GolfTDI
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Default

Was this a buyback car? If so was the oil changed during emissions fix and/or since you purchased it?

I imagine some internal corrosion happened on these engines when they sat in purgatory and all that had to get scraped off when they finally were let back loose in the wild.

Just a thought.
__________________
Adam
'12 Jetta Sportwagen TDI DSG - 69k
Platinum Gray/Titan Black
'11 Jetta Sportwagen TDI DSG - 52k
Candy White/Beige
03GolfTDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 10:10   #8
Kevinski4
 
Kevinski4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nebraska
Default

What kind of oil? Wear metals are through the roof. Elevated wear on emissions controlled vehicles is normal, based on the stick thread at the top of this subforum, but yours is significantly higher. Though I've not seen any other UOA's from "fixed" cars, so this could be normal.
Kevinski4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 11:38   #9
Dgravle514
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: South Carolina
TDI(s): 14' JSW
Default

I purchased this car from an individual. The emissions fix was preformed at 68,000 miles and I purchased the car at 74,000 miles. I immediately had an oil change done at the dealership. The DPF was replaced around 78,500 miles.



I have VCDS so I will keep an eye on the coolant temp. What should I be looking for as far as temperatures?



It has always been in the back of my head that something else was going on internally to cause the DPF to fail, but it seemed really common so I never really thought much more about it. I attributed the failed DPF to the previous owner short tripping.


Thanks for all the help thus far.
Dgravle514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2019, 13:41   #10
Lightflyer1
Veteran Member
 
Lightflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Default

180 to 205 degrees F. My 2015 Beetle has real temp gauges and usually runs around 203 when warmed up good.
__________________
How to post pics:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...t=post+picture
Lightflyer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2019, 08:55   #11
andreigbs
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Walworth Co., Wisconsin
Default

Guys, one UOA does not a story tell. If there were other UOAs and a trend is evident, then we could opine more knowledgeably. Until then, let's not freak the OP out.
__________________
2014 Jetta TDI // 43xxx miles // 38 MPG & 2014 GLK 250 // 108xxx miles // 34 MPG
2014 Golf TDI // 45xxx miles // 38 MPG - buyback'ed
2004 Bora TDI // 146xxx miles // 42 MPG - sold
1997 Jetta TDI // 317xxx miles // 44 MPG - sold
1986 Golf Diesel // 224xxx miles // 48 MPG - totaled
andreigbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2019, 18:30   #12
Dgravle514
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: South Carolina
TDI(s): 14' JSW
Default

I am not too worried about it. I am more curious than anything. I am more upset about the trashed DMF that I am getting replaced in a few weeks.



On the other hand I did watch coolant temps via VAG-Com on the morning and evening commute and everything looked fine. I bet the elevated metal levels are from the DPF malfunction, because the car ran awful before the check engine light came on indicating emissions issues.
Dgravle514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2019, 18:44   #13
Dgravle514
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: South Carolina
TDI(s): 14' JSW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03GolfTDI View Post
Was this a buyback car? If so was the oil changed during emissions fix and/or since you purchased it?

I imagine some internal corrosion happened on these engines when they sat in purgatory and all that had to get scraped off when they finally were let back loose in the wild.

Just a thought.

That would make sense, but according to my car-fax it doesn't look like mine sat idle very long.
Dgravle514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2019, 21:13   #14
James & Son
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI(s): 2006 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgravle514 View Post
I am not too worried about it. I am more curious than anything. I am more upset about the trashed DMF that I am getting replaced in a few weeks.



On the other hand I did watch coolant temps via VAG-Com on the morning and evening commute and everything looked fine. I bet the elevated metal levels are from the DPF malfunction, because the car ran awful before the check engine light came on indicating emissions issues.
Ok, this car has had the emissions "upgrade". Interesting. Has anybody knowledge with this change noticed fuel in the oil. Is this a trend.

If you haven't already, read the last paragraph in Go Fasters first post in his sticky thread in Fuels & Lubricants
Sticky: "What oil do I use?" READ FIRST BEFORE ASKING

Then I would try to understand exactly what the emission software is doing each time you drive the car.

If this oil change will not be affected by a compromised emissions then get a UOA at 5000 miles. Change the oil if wear metals are still high and post your results. You want to see lower wear metal trend.

Note each oil change retains 15% of the wear metals from the previous change. You want to get the wear metals lower and changing oil early may be necessary. You are trending 7.3 parts per million per 1000 miles of aluminium. That has to come down dramatically to 2 parts per 1000 miles to be average. I would think it will now that repairs have been made, but how much? The UOA's will tell the story.
James & Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2019, 10:43   #15
Dgravle514
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: South Carolina
TDI(s): 14' JSW
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
Ok, this car has had the emissions "upgrade". Interesting. Has anybody knowledge with this change noticed fuel in the oil. Is this a trend.

If you haven't already, read the last paragraph in Go Fasters first post in his sticky thread in Fuels & Lubricants
Sticky: "What oil do I use?" READ FIRST BEFORE ASKING

Then I would try to understand exactly what the emission software is doing each time you drive the car.

If this oil change will not be affected by a compromised emissions then get a UOA at 5000 miles. Change the oil if wear metals are still high and post your results. You want to see lower wear metal trend.

Note each oil change retains 15% of the wear metals from the previous change. You want to get the wear metals lower and changing oil early may be necessary. You are trending 7.3 parts per million per 1000 miles of aluminium. That has to come down dramatically to 2 parts per 1000 miles to be average. I would think it will now that repairs have been made, but how much? The UOA's will tell the story.



Sounds like a good plan. I will keep this updated. I am at 4000 miles now. I talked to Blackstone and they said we should definitely be able to tell something if I send them a sample now, but I will wait a little longer.



From what you guys say and goFast's oil post the extra fuel injected during regens it makes sense where the fuel came from. It was crazy how poor the car ran and how many times it stayed in regen before the check engine light came on indicating an emission issue. To me the VW differential presser sensors on the exhaust have too wide of a threshold. I feel like it should have been throwing a code earlier. I had just bought the car so I did not know any better.
Dgravle514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Really alarming noise when I started the engine bbk TDI 101 4 November 6th, 2009 05:57
Oil Analysis analysis TDIfor Fuels & Lubricants 2 July 6th, 2006 10:25
Alarming issues fastvicar VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs 6 December 8th, 2005 09:02
Oil Analysis: 2003 Beetle TDI, 12900 miles on oil segfault Fuels & Lubricants 2 May 14th, 2005 21:49
Oil Analysis - First analysis for '01 Jetta cosmic Fuels & Lubricants 21 April 20th, 2002 15:11


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.14425 seconds with 13 queries
[Output: 129.50 Kb. compressed to 108.34 Kb. by saving 21.17 Kb. (16.35%)]