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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old November 8th, 2019, 19:38   #61
Geomorph
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Just stopped at a 76 station with the renewable diesel. They only had renewable diesel and not the standard petroleum variety. Very interesting. And nice to have another source of renewable diesel.
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Old November 8th, 2019, 20:21   #62
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Originally Posted by Geomorph View Post
Just stopped at a 76 station with the renewable diesel. They only had renewable diesel and not the standard petroleum variety. Very interesting. And nice to have another source of renewable diesel.

How does the price compare to other 76 stations that just have D2? Also, where in the Sacto area was the station you visited?
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Old November 8th, 2019, 20:47   #63
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How does the price compare to other 76 stations that just have D2? Also, where in the Sacto area was the station you visited?
I don’t how the price compares to other 76 stations. I have pretty much only used Propel HPR since it has been available. From what I have seen, the price seemed about the same as regular diesel and Propel HPR. This 76 station is at the corner of Fair Oaks Blvd and Watt Ave.
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Old November 9th, 2019, 02:14   #64
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I was told that Propel isn't sourcing their renewable diesel from Neste any longer, instead relying on smaller independent refineries in North America.

I'm excited to know there is another option at 76 stations, however the 2 locations in Sacramento are not convenient for me so I will continue to use Propel.
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Old November 9th, 2019, 10:05   #65
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There are NO renewable diesel locations here in Northern California as they are all located in the central and southern regions. The closest are down south in the Sacto Metro area at the north end of Central California. Since Propel is headquartered in Sacramento and Golden Gate Petroleum in the Bay Area (Martinez), they ignore Northern California as is typical of those areas.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 10:50   #66
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You guys are lucky. Go even further north and it gets even harder to find. Washington state in particular is slowly loosing touch with sources.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 10:59   #67
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You guys are lucky. Go even further north and it gets even harder to find. Washington state in particular is slowly loosing touch with sources.

IIRC, Propel only sold E85 & BioDiesel (no Renewable Diesel) in the Seattle area but it looks like they pulled all their locations up there.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 15:08   #68
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I wish a mod would rename this thread. It's bogus and the OP hasn't posted for a very long time.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 15:32   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverUserName View Post
I was told that Propel isn't sourcing their renewable diesel from Neste any longer, instead relying on smaller independent refineries in North America.

I'm excited to know there is another option at 76 stations, however the 2 locations in Sacramento are not convenient for me so I will continue to use Propel.

I sent Propel an email asking about this and they are now sourcing from REG.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 19:04   #70
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Originally Posted by romad View Post
I sent Propel an email asking about this and they are now sourcing from REG.
I might give HPR another try if they have a new supplier. I suspect 76 renewable is also from REG
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Old November 15th, 2019, 20:29   #71
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I don't believe there is much difference between Neste & REG since they both use a similar process. What IS interesting is that Propel previously said their RD had a 70 Cetane number and REG says their RD has a 60 number. I wonder what determines the number, the type biomass used, ratio of animal to vegi biomass, or just amount of refining? Also, I suspect that RD from U.S. production will be higher priced than earlier RD. If the U.S. really wants to see an increase of RD vs D2, then they need to continue massively reduced taxes on RD.
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Old November 15th, 2019, 21:48   #72
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Ive seen Neste RD leak so if REG RD doesn't leak that alone is a huge difference to me lol. 76 RD claims 70+centane so if REG RD is 60 that means 76 might be getting it somewhere else, or adding an additive package
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Old November 15th, 2019, 21:53   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romad View Post
I wonder what determines the number, the type biomass used, ratio of animal to vegi biomass, or just amount of refining?
You made me wonder the same thing. I found this on the interwebs



Hexadecane (cetane)
is the reference compound used to assess the ignition
quality of a diesel fuel on the cetane scale, a concept
similar to the octane number used for gasoline. The
carbon chain length of the alkanes present in diesel fuel
determines the cetane number.
Diesel fuels containing large amounts of shorter-
chain and isomerized species have lower cetane num-
bers while diesel fuels consisting mainly of long-chain
alkanes have higher cetane number. ASTM D975 and EN
590 are the commonly used petroleum diesel standards
in the United Stated and Europe, respectively.
In general, vegetable oils consist primarily of triac-
ylglyceride molecules. Low concentrations (<2 percent)
of free fatty acid (FFA) molecules are also present in
vegetable oils. Both triacylglycerides and FFAs contain
relatively long, linear aliphatic hydrocarbon chains,
which are partially unsaturated and have a carbon chain
length and molecular weight similar to the molecules
found in petroleum diesel.
Hence, the cetane number of diesel fuels derived
from renewable resources such as vegetable oils is high,
over 70. Long-chain alkanes are less desirable because
of their adverse effects on low temperature properties
of diesel fuels. Shorter-chain compounds improve cold
flow properties of diesel fuels.
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Old November 16th, 2019, 10:07   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie710 View Post
Ive seen Neste RD leak so if REG RD doesn't leak that alone is a huge difference to me lol. 76 RD claims 70+centane so if REG RD is 60 that means 76 might be getting it somewhere else, or adding an additive package

Oops I may have reversed the cetane numbers. if so,

What do you mean by "leak"? I've carried Propel's Neste-sourced DieselHPR in a fuel container and never saw a leak.
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Old November 16th, 2019, 10:11   #75
romad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie710 View Post
You made me wonder the same thing. I found this on the interwebs

Hexadecane (cetane)
is the reference compound used to assess the ignition
quality of a diesel fuel on the cetane scale, a concept
similar to the octane number used for gasoline. The
carbon chain length of the alkanes present in diesel fuel
determines the cetane number.
Diesel fuels containing large amounts of shorter-
chain and isomerized species have lower cetane num-
bers while diesel fuels consisting mainly of long-chain
alkanes have higher cetane number. ASTM D975 and EN
590 are the commonly used petroleum diesel standards
in the United Stated and Europe, respectively.
In general, vegetable oils consist primarily of triac-
ylglyceride molecules. Low concentrations (<2 percent)
of free fatty acid (FFA) molecules are also present in
vegetable oils. Both triacylglycerides and FFAs contain
relatively long, linear aliphatic hydrocarbon chains,
which are partially unsaturated and have a carbon chain
length and molecular weight similar to the molecules
found in petroleum diesel.
Hence, the cetane number of diesel fuels derived
from renewable resources such as vegetable oils is high,
over 70. Long-chain alkanes are less desirable because
of their adverse effects on low temperature properties
of diesel fuels. Shorter-chain compounds improve cold
flow properties of diesel fuels.

Thanks, Louie.

So a lower cetane numbered RD may have a higher animal biomass to vegetable biomass ratio, if I understand the citation.
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